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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2016 : 15:13:36
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Well, while most described Lilim are female, a Lilim could of either sex in Hebrew Folklore. The Mesopotamian "Lil" demons had names according to their gender, like Lilu was male, but Ardat Lili was female.
Also, "Lilim", is the plural form, like Seraphim. A singular form would be Lil, or Lili, just like Seraph is the singular form of Seraphim.
Although I had the devil Lilith to be a Daemon(not necersary a Yuggoloth, more Night Hag-ish) who infiltrated both Baatazu, and Tanarii, based on Green Ronin materials which had Lilith and Hag Countess as the same. But to be clear, the people who wrote that, also wrote official stuff, like the Gates of Hell, and Fiendish Codex I. It also clears out the confusion tht both Lilith and the Hag Countess were described as Moloch's consort, that replaced him as the ruler of the Sixth Hell/Malbolge.
Hag, including Night Hags can beautiful, but chose otherwise, as described by Chris Avellone.
It would also tie Hags and Succubi, as both describe to the two "darker", but oddly interchangable forms of the Three Faces of Eve/Tripple Goddess "The Crone" and "The Seductress".
Although that again, would make Succubi/incubi more tied to the female sex... |
Edited by - Baltas on 10 Jan 2016 15:30:20 |
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Thanateros
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2016 : 10:02:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Well, while most described Lilim are female, a Lilim could of either sex in Hebrew Folklore. The Mesopotamian "Lil" demons had names according to their gender, like Lilu was male, but Ardat Lili was female. Also, "Lilim", is the plural form, like Seraphim. A singular form would be Lil, or Lili, just like Seraph is the singular form of Seraphim.
Although I had the devil Lilith to be a Daemon(not necersary a Yugoloth, more Night Hag-ish) who infiltrated both Baatazu, and Tanarii, based on Green Ronin materials which had Lilith and Hag Countess as the same. But to be clear, the people who wrote that, also wrote official stuff, like the Gates of Hell, and Fiendish Codex I. It also clears out the confusion tht both Lilith and the Hag Countess were described as Moloch's consort, that replaced him as the ruler of the Sixth Hell/Malbolge.
Hag, including Night Hags can beautiful, but chose otherwise, as described by Chris Avellone. It would also tie Hags and Succubi, as both describe to the two "darker", but oddly interchangable forms of the Three Faces of Eve/Triple Goddess "The Crone" and "The Seductress".
I really like that conflation to "Lilith, the Hag Countess", and the Maiden/Mother/Crone trinity as part of that. As the Night Hags are the ones who create Altraloths, having Lilith be the Hag Countess suggests the possibility that some of the more powerful succubi and incubi could be Altraloths. |
"Quality is a fundamental aspect of our experiential realities, with pleasure being the simplest name of the attractive positive experiential pole. Modeled mathematically, pursuit of pleasure then is simply a mathematical inevitability of our experiential realities." |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2016 : 11:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Thanateros
I really like that conflation to "Lilith, the Hag Countess", and the Maiden/Mother/Crone trinity as part of that. As the Night Hags are the ones who create Altraloths, having Lilith be the Hag Countess suggests the possibility that some of the more powerful succubi and incubi could be Altraloths.
Glad you also like it,I always thought it is brilliant.
Curiously, mimir.net also iscussed the possibility succubi may be Yugoloths, "Bioloths", but also suggesting Erinyes are the ssme species, which I don't think is the case:
http://mimir.net/essays/succubus.html
It's at the very bottom.
Also, I think Hedonoloth/Hedonodaemon just sound better than bioloth.
[EDIT]
Also, while I think Erinyes are normally a separate breed of fiend than Succubi/Incubi, it's possible Brachina/Pleasure Devils, are "Succubized/Incubized" Erinyes, possibly by Lilith herself. As the most powerful Erynies are promoted into Brachina, the process may be similar to a transformation into an Altraloth, if more standardized. But what most devils would not know, could be that Brachinas are sleeper agents for Lilith the Hag Countess... |
Edited by - Baltas on 11 Jan 2016 12:39:15 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2016 : 15:21:20
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| I have concidered just calling the Incubi and Succubi as just "The Bi". |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2016 : 23:29:49
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| I think it makes sense for them to be something in between. I think that's the way they were considering rationalising it so it can be consistent with both 4E and older products(for exactly Falls-From-Grace's backstory makes no sense with 4E's rulings), succubi can be both. They act more like devils in practice, slyer, making deals, but are more chaos orientated than other devils. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2017 : 20:26:30
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Update, just found out that Shami_Amorae is a vertiage again, with her body in the Amber Temple.
So this changes things when it comes to the heirarchy of the Succubi. |
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New Succubi/Incubi, neither Devils, nor Demons
