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Gareth Yaztromo
Acolyte
Australia
37 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 02:15:51
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Greetings, I am a fledgling here.
I have only read the first 2 Forgotten Realms books of The Empires Trilogy way back in high school many years ago (probably 1997) - it is a vague blur in my memory. Now I am an avid fan of Dragonlance (read/own all the main 11 books) and want to stretch into Forgotten Realms too. However I've noticed there are 2 major authors of FF, Ed Greenwood (creator) and R. A. Salvatore. I have researched via the web and found that the infamous Elminster to be Ed's creation and Drizzt (and co) to be Salvatore's. Now I am currently in the process of ordering the main works of Salvatore (Icewind Dale Trilogy, Legacy of the Drow Series, Paths of Darkness Series, The Hunter's Blades Trilogy, and the Dark Elf Trilogy) which I haven't read. I also want to know the main works of Ed Greenwood. Would I be right to assume that (in order of reading) I should read the following books:
Shandril's Saga
1. Spellfire
2. Crown of Fire
3. Hand of Fire (not released yet?)
Elminster Series
1. The Making of a Mage
2. Elminster in Myth Drannor
3. The Temptation of Elminster
4. Elminster in Hell
5. Elminster's Daughter (not released yet?)
Something like that? Any other series by Ed I should read? I see a lot of negativity on the web when concerned with Ed's work. Anyway thanks for any help anyone can give.
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"Gereth Yaztromo is arguably the most famous wizard of Allansia due to his part in a number of the most well known sagas of that region from the third century AC. He is also known as one of the three Star Pupils of the Grand Wizard of Yore.." |
Edited by - Gareth Yaztromo on 16 Feb 2004 02:31:29
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 02:25:15
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| Hand of Fire has been released. Also, there is another Elminster book, The Temptation of Elminster. |
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Gareth Yaztromo
Acolyte
Australia
37 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 02:32:25
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| Thanks for that, I forgot about that book. Just edited my first post. I hope that's the right order. |
"Gereth Yaztromo is arguably the most famous wizard of Allansia due to his part in a number of the most well known sagas of that region from the third century AC. He is also known as one of the three Star Pupils of the Grand Wizard of Yore.." |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 03:00:47
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| Yes, it is. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 16:00:08
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OK, this is the best ever published introduction to what the Realms is about:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/wellmet.htm
Ed's Realms novels outside those two series are
The Shadows of the Avatar: Shadows of Doom, Cloak of Shadows, All Shadows Fled
The Cormyr Saga: Cormyr: A Novel (with Jeff Grubb), Death of the Dragon (with Troy Denning)
Stormlight, Silverfall: Stories of the Seven Sisters
Hard to say which are the 'main works'. For WotC it's the Elminster books, since in corporatespeak El is Ed's 'signature character' (and not one he intended to use as a novel protagonist). You won't go wrong with what you've got.
Don't read Ed's books (or indeed Bob's) expecting epic fantasy (like Dragonlance); they're firmly sword and sorcery. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2004 : 16:07:45
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Faraer, Beyond the High Road comes between Cormyr: A Novel and Death of the Dragon.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2004 : 04:51:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
...Don't read Ed's books (or indeed Bob's) expecting epic fantasy (like Dragonlance); they're firmly sword and sorcery...
Dragonlance isn't always about epic fantasy...The trend has shifted greatly (and expanded) since the early (and epic) days of 'Chronicles', 'Legends' and the 'Dragons of Summer Flame'. There's just as much 'sword and sorcery' on Krynn now as there is on Toril...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2004 : 17:44:25
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It's too bad Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have no apparent interest in the Realms. I'd love to read a realms-based epic Fantasy by that pair.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2004 : 03:42:22
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| No thanks. I've yet to read a Weis book that I've liked. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 08:12:26
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I'm still getting into 'Realms' fiction myself, so I have one question - Is the Sembia series of novels a good selection to start reading for someone who hasn't read a Realms novel since the middle years of 2nd edition?.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 08:39:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Kazandra
I'm still getting into 'Realms' fiction myself, so I have one question - Is the Sembia series of novels a good selection to start reading for someone who hasn't read a Realms novel since the middle years of 2nd edition?.
A mere search on "Sembia" at this forum will likely take you to numerous posts of the same question ...... and from replies along the lines of "hell yeah!!!!"  A FANTASTIC series!!! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 08:45:48
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Thanks for the information Rad, but I've now decided to read the Twilight Giants trilogy before these Sembia books.
I'll keep your suggestion under advisement though, since Sembia is starting to become one of my first areas in the Realms.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Sirine
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 14:05:03
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| question- i never thought it mattered, but many people have told me that the realms books have a particular timeline. for those who have read the books 'in the correct order', do you think that it puts a downer on the stories any less?? i don't think so. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 16:21:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Sirine
question- i never thought it mattered, but many people have told me that the realms books have a particular timeline. for those who have read the books 'in the correct order', do you think that it puts a downer on the stories any less?? i don't think so.
Do you mean published order or chronological order? For the latter, WOTC has a web page giving details on where books fall into the timeline: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/fr/presenting Next to each entry, there is also the publication date for a work.
A downer? Not sure what you mean. I think someone who reads a certain series in either order would find enjoyment. For example, if someone wants to start out the Drizzt series with Homeland because it is first in the timeline, I don't see their enjoyment greater or less than someone who starts with The Crystal Shard because it was published first. The only thing that might affect reading enjoyment would be knowing the fate of a character as it's pretty clear Drizzt survives Homeland if he's making an appearance in books set later in the timeline. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 03:15:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I hope that the Bookwyrm is not reading Sirius's last post...
What? What did I do? I just used the first example that popped into my head. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 16:31:10
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::The Bookwrym grumbles darkly, then casts an illusion that floats over Sirius's head. It reads: "Icewind Dale comes first!"
He glares at Sirius, then growls "Just be glad it isn't a 'kick me' sign."::
Pray, pay no attention to the werewolf, Lady Sirine. 
The Realms has not hard-set order to it, so you could read the Sembia series first. There is a certain timeline, but it's only a few decades long (not counting the books that go farther back in time). Mostly you can just find the start of a certain sub-series and go from there. Some things will be important yet unstated -- such as what exactly the Time of Troubles was, since most people are expected to know what it is.
The Realms is a cross-section of events taking place at the same time, with different characters. It's not like Dragonlance. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 17:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
No thanks. I've yet to read a Weis book that I've liked.
There you go, with your wierd taste again... |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 21:45:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
No harm done, I see. Now don't ye go taunting him in future, SiriusBlack! 
Never fear, my parents taught me to respect the elderly. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 11:56:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
[snip]...The Realms is a cross-section of events taking place at the same time, with different characters. It's not like Dragonlance. ...[/snip]
Again with the 'lance bashing...What is it with you all....
This type of perspective really depends upon how much exposure you've had to the series. The Dragonlance saga now (well at least for the last ten years), as portrayed in the novels is a multitude of adventures and stories told against the backdrop of the main campaign-shattering event occuring at the time. There's just as much variance and cross-section in these books as there is in the stories of the Realms.
Lady Kazandra said -
quote:
I'll keep your suggestion under advisement though, since Sembia is starting to become one of my first areas in the Realms.
I think you meant to say 'favorite areas', at least that's the interpretation I get from the fact that you keeping wanting to know as much as possible about the Land of Merchants...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2004 : 15:03:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
The Realms has not hard-set order to it, so you could read the Sembia series first.
Bookwyrm is dead on. The Sembia series is an excellent series and one that I think stands out as a great way to introduce newcomers to the Realms. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 07:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Again with the 'lance bashing...What is it with you all....
This type of perspective really depends upon how much exposure you've had to the series. The Dragonlance saga now (well at least for the last ten years), as portrayed in the novels is a multitude of adventures and stories told against the backdrop of the main campaign-shattering event occuring at the time. There's just as much variance and cross-section in these books as there is in the stories of the Realms.
Yet they're still connected, if only by the fact that they're all experiencing the war, or whatever's going on. In the Realms, usually what happens has no connection to anyone else.
I know that it's more of a nitpicking, but it's how I see it. And I simply couldn't get into that series at all. I understand from you that it's gotten better, but I'd still have to go through that original part to figure out what's going on now. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 14:20:28
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I suppose...
Anyway, here's something that should generate some interesting discussion - A friend of mine the other day suggested to a new Realms devotee that the FR CRPG's (as in all the games ever designed, from the early SSI days to Hordes of the Underdark) were a great way to introduce oneself to the Realms and it's mechanics.
I originally agreed - at least partially - with the notion of becoming familiar with basic Realmslore, but as I've stated elsewhere, CRPG mechanics are not the best way to introduce a new player to the mechanics of FR.
What do the rest of you think about this...?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 15:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I suppose...
Anyway, here's something that should generate some interesting discussion - A friend of mine the other day suggested to a new Realms devotee that the FR CRPG's (as in all the games ever designed, from the early SSI days to Hordes of the Underdark) were a great way to introduce oneself to the Realms and it's mechanics.
I originally agreed - at least partially - with the notion of becoming familiar with basic Realmslore, but as I've stated elsewhere, CRPG mechanics are not the best way to introduce a new player to the mechanics of FR.
What do the rest of you think about this...?
I disagree Sage. I don't think that the computer games help that much. Taking the latter.....Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter Nights etc. ....they are centered around one locale and whilst I believe that they do give a certain mediaeval and fantasy feel in part, theres nothing quite like reading a good FR novel and opening up the FRCS, City of Splendors box set and other such treasure troves of Realmslore! |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 27 Feb 2004 19:15:08 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 19:20:10
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Hardly. It's more appropriate as an introduction to D&D rules, though even that can backfire with those ubermunchkin rules. They make sense in a computer game, where things have to be both simple and less complicated (not necessarily the same thing), but quickly unbalance real gameplay.
As for Realmslore . . . sometimes it might be useful, but most of the time there's so little actual Realmslore (especially correct Realmslore) that it's not really worth the effort just for that. They'd be better off reading the FRCS cold.
Personally, all things being equal, what I'd do is give a person every book and every game source, and say "start reading the novels, and then if you have questions, look them up in one of these." I know I could have used that when I started into the Realms with the books. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2004 : 19:29:58
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I run a server ("Menzoberranzan") for what may be the largest NWN Faerun-based Persistant World project there is, "A Land Far Away" (ALFA) so I have a fair amount of experience with NWN, SoU and HotU. The games themselves are nice but tend to be very limited in scope and also tend to create new locales, personalities and events (take the the drow cities/enclaves in both BGII and HotU for example). Also, the mechanics of the game are similar to but not the same as 3 or 3.5 D&D. So, depsite being a proponent of the computer games, I think reading a few novels or getting a hold of the FRCS may be a little more productive and would actually help put the computer games in context (as in HotU, where a drow priestess takes advantage of Lolth's silence as described in the War of the Spider Queen series).
Ok, having said that, if you go beyond the single player game with the CRPGs and venture into the online gaming world, you can REALLY expand your knowledge and experience of the Realms. You have to be choosy about who and where you play however. Many, if not most, online games have little or nothing to do with the Faerun of WotC and are merely locations to have battles, social interaction or whatever.
There are a few role-playing focused Persistant World projects that are focussed on Faerun. These include Toril:The Forgotten Realms Chronicles, Elder, and of course, our project, ALFA.
ALFA is attempting to create as much of Faerun as it can with the NWN system. At the moment, we have around two dozen interlinked servers representing places such as Waterdeep, Daggerdale, Icewind Dale, Selgaunt, The Pirate Isles and my server, Menzoberranzan, along with many others. The servers connect to each other via actual travel routes - for example, if you want to get from the environs of Menzoberrazan to the surface near Silverymoon, you have to walk the path Drizzt took to reach the Rauvin Mountains.
Persistant World projects like ALFA generally stick as faithfully to WotC cannon as possible (though we did not burn down our Ched Nasad server - simply too much work to render the place a smouldering hole in the ground).
Playing in one of these types of Persistant Worlds will teach you a LOT about the realms very quickly. ALFA for example has hundreds of players playing anything from Paladins of Lathander to Wizards of Thay to Drow Priestesses of Lolth. ALFA has been "Live" for almost a year now and has PCs ranging in level from 1st (of course) to 15th or so.
So, thats my plug for the computer games such as it is. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Ciao! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 06:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Hardly. It's more appropriate as an introduction to D&D rules, though even that can backfire with those ubermunchkin rules. They make sense in a computer game, where things have to be both simple and less complicated (not necessarily the same thing), but quickly unbalance real gameplay.
As for Realmslore . . . sometimes it might be useful, but most of the time there's so little actual Realmslore (especially correct Realmslore) that it's not really worth the effort just for that. They'd be better off reading the FRCS cold.
Personally, all things being equal, what I'd do is give a person every book and every game source, and say "start reading the novels, and then if you have questions, look them up in one of these." I know I could have used that when I started into the Realms with the books.
I'm glad that saner minds have seen the truth, and I'm also happy that at least some agree with me.
As I said, I originally agreed with the basic notion of CRPGs being a good source of Realmslore, but my opinion changed as soon as Baldur's Gate was released. There was very little Realmslore actually used for the foundation of the game, and even less of that small piece was actually accurate.
In the end, I finally gave this friend (to borrow) my more used copy of the ol'greybox, and told him to start with the earliest edition first. Then I would suggest that he move on to some of the 2e, and later 3e material to see how the setting has evolved since 1e days.
This friend is now one of my core players for our gaming group, and has never missed a step when it comes to citing a reference for a particular piece of Realmslore.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 14:03:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikayla
I run a server ("Menzoberranzan") for what may be the largest NWN Faerun-based Persistant World project there is, "A Land Far Away" (ALFA) so I have a fair amount of experience with NWN, SoU and HotU.
Would you be in any way connected with Rizogue and www.menzoberranzan.net? Just wondering..... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2004 : 16:37:46
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Yes, I am sort of connected to Rizogue and crew. When ALFA was first founded, Rizogue was the Head Dungeon Master (HDM) of the Menzo server. Later ALFA pulled a fast one on Rizogue (bad ALFA, bad) and Rizogue left to form an independant Persistant world project - the one you see at Menzo.net. In the meantime, ownership of ALFA's Menzo switched again from those who took it from Riz to Marklos. Marklos brought me in a year ago this month to assist. Eventually, Marklos decided to run the Spine of the World, Icewind Dale and Luskan servers leaving me the HDM of Menzo back in October of last year.
Now, I am working with Rizogue, FacelessOne, Nalfein/Demona and Lodrezzon to build a new tileset for Menzoberranzan out of the Underdark tileset that came with HotU. Well...actually....Lodrezzon is working on the tileset, Nalfein is building a Narbondel to go in it, and the rest of us are mostly kibitzing and hoping they finish fast (I did contribute the projects wish list from which Lod is building the tileset though - I am very good at asking people for things...hee hee).
Rizogue's project and ALFA are seperate - Rizogue and crew are starting small with just Menzo, while ALFA is ... well ... large. We shall see - I like Riz and crew a lot. In time, since I DM in ALFA's Menzo (and in my PnP group) I may finally get a chance to play in Rizogue's Menzo. One can only hope.... |
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