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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2014 : 20:04:51
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So… after trying to buff the hell out of a Inspire courage of bards, I have posted a homebrew spell identical to inspirational boost, but as a level 6, that gives a +6 bonus.
Now, some said that it is too powerful for a level 6, and some thinks its fine. This leads me to think, that somehow the scaling of spells should be in some way easy to calculate.
This was at a different forum!
First I wanted to rate all spells of each level from 1-100 and then, by doing some linear regression, trying to calculate the scaling, but this seems like an immense and almost impossible task. Not only would it take sooo long time, but I have no way to determine the power of the individual scale of the individual spells except for my own judgment, which might not be consistent or scientific.
I would like to give some examples of the reason for me wanting to have a firm basis of understanding what is possible within the limits of each spell level and how to calculate this.
Mage Armor gives a +4 armor bonus as a level 1 spell.
Greater mage armor gives a +6 armor bonus as a level 3 spell.
This shows me that by increasing the spell level by 2, one can increase the amount of bonus given by 1,5. Meaning that a level 5 version would give a bonus of +9. Following this to level 9 it gives then 20.5 meaning that a level 9 spell is only 5,125 times more powerful than a level 1.
To show another example we have the spell Shield of Faith which gives a +5 deflection bonus to AC at level 1. Meaning that a level 3 version (by following the mage armor spell line) would give +7,5. Following this to level 9 we get: 25,3. Meaning a total of 5,06 times more powerful.
Or shield… same thing as mage armor.
What about Bull strength. It gives +4 strength at level 2. What about a level 4 version of this spell which if following the same patterns would give +6. Or a level 6 giving +9 and a level 8 giving +13.5 strength. Making a level 8 spell only 3,375 times more powerful than a level 2.
(I am by no means a math buff, so please if my calculations are way off, I apologize and hope that you will correct me respectfully without putting me down)
It seems to me, that the potential outcome of a single spell level is greatest at the low level spells and that spell power by level do not scale “the right way.”
I’m not saying that I feel magic is not powerful enough, but something about the way spells scale in power annoys me.
At level 9 you have spells that alter reality, the tide of war, create matter from noting and opens portals to any place. Basically “press enter to win” spells, but if this is the pinnacle of mortal power (not taking epic magic into account) then surely the scaling of things like armor is way off.
So I leave it to you guys to comment on this.
How many times more powerful should a level 9 be compared to a level 1?
Damage spells like magic missile, which is level 1, has a max damage of 25, Moonbow, which is level 5, has a max damage of 180 hence 7,2 times as much as a level 1 spell. If these numbers are in fact right, then why can’t we have a level 5 mage armor giving +28 armor class???? And if we very to following my example of mage armor then a level 5 spell should damage 56,25.
I know I have not taken duration and number of targets into much consideration, I have tried to take only single target spells (except for Moonbow).
Can we find a scaling that fits properly?
In advance, thanks!
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Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 16 Mar 2014 21:56:03
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 00:13:53
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Well there are other factors to consider, the higher the level spell fewer of them can be cast.
The old basic advice given to DMs for permitting new spells was to assign a level of comparable power of approved spells. The best way to know level is correct is by play testing, WotC sometimes did not even do this well.
Simple math I do not believe will work well by just making a greater spell 2 levels higher. A more complex formula would be required if math alone would even work. |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 03:33:15
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Well, first I'll point out bonuses don't scale like you propose in D&D, though theoretically they could, of course. Since each +1 roughly equals +5% "success chance" in a D20 system, making bonuses scale in something close to a power function of level will usually make them grow very quickly, which would make the difference between levels even greater than it already is. Also, if you do this to AC, you absolutely must do it for other kinds of bonuses too, or balance is thrown completely out the window.
I don't have much knowledge of this sort of thing, but at first it seems to me there's way too many factors in play to guess the form of the function a priori. I think your proposal of rating each spell from 1 to 100 (say, from a playtest) and then fitting a function to the data is a much better approach, and probably closer to what WotC actually does. Honestly, I'm surprised D20, especially 3E, is so well-balanced, given the quantity of disparate factors one has to take into account (which, incidentally, I find is the charm of that rules system). |
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Edited by - Mapolq on 17 Mar 2014 03:34:19 |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2014 : 08:56:02
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I kind of understand the whole thing from a balance point of view, but logically, it makes no sense to me that a puny level 1 spell can muster +4 bonus within its power, when a level 9 spells, cant give an equal high number.
True strike is also a level 1 spell, which as we all know give +20 to a single attack. How would a level 9 version of this spell look like?
If you guys will play along...
If a level 1 spell has a total maximum power output of 10 kj, what is the total maximum power output of a level 9? |
Edited by - Nicolai Withander on 17 Mar 2014 08:58:04 |
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Power level of the scaling of spells?
