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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 03:04:44
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In a world without GPS, and wide open lands, such as the Old West, how did they detail property lines?
In my campaign, the PCs are obtaining a large plot of land, and I'd like to know how to go about detailing the property lines. When dealing with elves, and magic.... rivers change locations, hills can move... just how do you go about assuring the property lines?
Anyone have some good insight on this?
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Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 03:20:02
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I don't think it would be too much of an issue, honestly... A lot of land would be claimed by the first person to get there, who would stake out his territory. Then someone else stakes out an adjacent chunk of land, and someone else grabs the next parcel... Each person takes what they want out of what's available.
It's only after an area has been settled for a while that property lines would become an issue, I think. And even then, boundaries put in place by prior owners are going to remain rather definitive.
Once it does become a factor, though, I think it would be something like "from five paces north of the old weirwood tree, running eastward to the cluster of rocks by the old streambed..." and so on.
I once worked at a place that handled paperwork for mortgages. Some of the plat descriptions I saw were vague, like "the parcel of land at 1138 Lucas Lane," while others were incredibly precise -- "starting at latitude 37 degrees 4 minutes 18 seconds, longitude 118 degrees 23 minutes 15 seconds, running at compass heading 127.2 degrees for 143 feet 5 and 3/4 inches, then turning 65 degrees and running..." and so on. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 05:04:09
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| Probably they erected a fence of some sort or marked the boundaries with stones set in a certain pattern (a pattern that wouldn't be found easily nature). If the property owner is a mage or has the funds, then perhaps they set a magical boundary of some sort (and possibly linked to the landowner who would know when someone entered their property, who it was, and maybe a tell-tale sign of which direction they went). |
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Cbad285
Learned Scribe
161 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 05:30:44
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in simplest terms the lord who can claim ownership of land, and who can sell title to that land to say, a farmer, dictates where the property line ends. Disagreements on property lines can be brought up to the lord who would enforce his law, or not, depending on the lord. Most of the time a constable or sheriff will be sent out or will send his 'peace keepers' to settle the issue. regardless a land owner should receive a deed of some sort claiming where his land begins and ends. A fence most of the time is the physical line marker.
This a decent description of different ways land is owned.
http://home.comcast.net/~mikibu/Articlefolder/feudalism.htm |
"Beware the Dream Fever!" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 07:13:25
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Hedges (either rows, or ornamental at corners within sight of each other) are common. If not shrubs, then particular trees with particular plants planted around them is how I mark Elven Possession of certain areas.
Dwarfs in my game use Cornerstones. At each corner (a short statue with various faces on each side) is an obelisk that notes the owner of a certain area. These stone obelisks are within sight of each other to ensure nobody doubts where the line is.
Halflings use piled fieldstone (much like humans) to mark their fields...if the ground is very poor it can be an entire wall of fieldstones...but usually only at corners.
Domain Boundaries are usually marked with large structures of some kind which denote that "To this point do the swords of Cormyr hold the land for the Crown" or some such. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 08:37:23
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The skill of surveying is over 3,000 years old, the Egyptians were among the first to develop it. Some say for reason of taxation others the reestablish land boundaries after the Nile annual flood.
As indicated steams and rivers do change course over years, much rarer though for hills to move. These though sometimes clearly used as a boundary line. A large land grant certainly can be based on monuments and/or terrain.
I hereby grant the lands that lat between the East River, the Dwarven Hills of the North, to the Elven Forest of Arden to the West, that lay North of the City of Nod.
Such a land grant does not provide footage or volume of land, however the local landmarks clearly would be known to the local. There clearly also could be treaties in place that better describe the lands to be held. The Dukes road, the Temple of Sune, the Tower of War and Peace, etc. man make structures.
The land Grant could be in feet, miles and compass direction as well.
I here by grant the Lands that shall be bounded as describe, at the starting point of road monument number 105 going East for 3 miles, then the bounds shall turn North and run two miles, then the bounds shall turn Southwest to the starting point, i.e. Road monument number 105.
This land grant of course relies on the monument being intact and requires accurate compass and measure of distance. Both do exist in the Realms. This land might even be aerial surveyed by use of flying carpet and good math tools.
As to assuring the land borders you might require them to use the sword, establish agreement with the Elves or have the land grant so well established in that everyone important know to nearly an inch here the borders are and such bounds are honored. Of course even if you use the last option, goblins, orcs, drow, trolls and many other creatures would not count as anyone important to a well established border. So even that there likely would be need of the sword. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2014 : 21:58:54
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Early Romans delineated land boundaries with roads. They were very interested indeed in collecting their land taxes, and in accurately governing land inheritance.
Surveyors have always sighted upon “fixed“ landmarks whose exact locations are known, it‘s just a matter of triangulating onto a local “fixed“ landmark or two (things like buildings, wells, gravestones, or mile-markers), then picking directions and counting paces to measure out other locations and boundaries.
You‘ll sometimes see cryptic geometric glyphs on our city sidewalks - drawn in chalk, painted, or even ceramic/metal/plastic symbols permanently embedded into the concrete. It saves the civil surveyors time and money to re-use (or confirm with) previously known coordinates which haven‘t moved. And yes, such symbols are sometimes vandalised, but for the most part they remain ignored.
Common medieval law typically dealt with land disputes by sending out some sort of Royal Surveyor and having the offending/wrong party pay the costs. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 02:27:48
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This may be of some help:
http://www.surveyhistory.org/16th_century_surveyors1.htm
In essense: they relied on the customary boundaries that had been established before, and that information was passed down via oral tradition essential to the younger generations. Very little actual measurement seemed to be involved. However, in my game I use leagues, which are made up of strides or feet. The corners and boundaries of the land are marked by nailing plaques on landmark trees (very large trees that are not going any where any time soon). Or if it's in a non-forested area, rock cairns mark the corners. This would allow a surveyor to sight along a line of marked trees to roughly establish a boundary line, and eventually a polygon of some sort. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 08:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wenin
In a world without GPS, and wide open lands, such as the Old West, how did they detail property lines?
Without stopping on the rails and derping on a little display until hit by a train. 
Using optics and planimetry, mainly.
Really, you didn't read "Kim"? Since the protagonist eventually was kind of thrown into this line of work, there are some mentions of the basics. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2014 : 19:59:19
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Thank you, for all the resources provided. =)
Yeah, I don't think this would be a simple thing that would be overlooked by many. Wars and feuds were started over property lines. |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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How do are property lines detailed?
