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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
749 Posts
Posted - 25 Sep 2015 :  04:15:31  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Null was written out in 2E's "Cult of the Dragon" sourcebook. Since he is also Chronepsis and Falazure, wouldn't his entry be more suitable?
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 25 Sep 2015 :  05:06:00  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Razz

Null was written out in 2E's "Cult of the Dragon" sourcebook. Since he is also Chronepsis and Falazure, wouldn't his entry be more suitable?


This project covers the whole 2e multiverse; as Null has an F&A entry but Chronepsis and Faluzure do not, they're in the project.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 02 Dec 2015 :  00:40:17  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aasterinian, the Messenger of Io: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2015/12/aasterinian-the-messenger-of-io/

Aasterinian is a playful and vital deity who revels in play and learning. She is Io’s messenger to both mortal dragons and her fellow draconic deities, although she isn’t always prompt. She is a friendly, wandering deity, who can often be found having adventures of her own or enjoying the hospitality of other deities.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jan 2016 :  12:21:20  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elemtia the Tempest: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2016/01/elemtia-the-tempest/

Elemtia is mentioned in one line in the Council of Wyrms campaign setting, as a demipower of elementals favored by chaotic dragons. I decided to expand that to elemental magic, elemental forces, and nature, with followers who are akin to druids.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Feb 2016 :  09:57:28  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lendys the Balancer: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2016/02/lendys-the-balancer/

Where Chronepsis judges dragons after their deaths, Lendys judges them while still alive. He believes in retributive justice, that those who live by fang and claw die by fang and claw. All punishments are carefully measured, however, and minor crimes have minor punishments. While he is hard and merciless, he is fair in his dealings.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
Edited by - AuldDragon on 01 Feb 2016 09:59:05
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  08:17:47  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Garyx the Firelord: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2016/03/garyx-the-firelord/

Garyx is one of the draconic deities originally presented in FOR1 Draconomicon, for the Forgotten Realms. He is somewhat similar to Elemtia, but whereas Elemtia is a purely elemental deity, Garyx represents the effects and power of fire, rather than the element of fire.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1536 Posts
Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  09:35:20  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doesn't Garyx live in Pandemonium?

Also, for his breath weapon, I'd recommend giving him the benefits of 3.5e's Searing Spell metamagic feat, if only to show that Garyx's flame is so hot that it can burn even those immune to fire.

Also, why is he served by gehreleths? They're native to Carceri, and under the sway of Apomps and Nerull. You also seem to have missed out on including red dragons in his list of servitor creatures.
Edited by - LordofBones on 02 Mar 2016 09:36:18
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  20:16:04  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Doesn't Garyx live in Pandemonium?

Also, for his breath weapon, I'd recommend giving him the benefits of 3.5e's Searing Spell metamagic feat, if only to show that Garyx's flame is so hot that it can burn even those immune to fire.

Also, why is he served by gehreleths? They're native to Carceri, and under the sway of Apomps and Nerull. You also seem to have missed out on including red dragons in his list of servitor creatures.


He was located in the Abyss throughout 2nd Edition (FOR1 Draconomicon and Cult of the Dragon). I don't know why it was changed in 3rd Edition. Overriding or reducing immunity might be a good thing for his breath weapon; I'll think about it a bit.

Most Gehreleths are subservient to Apomps, sure, but there are always some rogues. Races/creatures who worship a deity usually aren't included in the list of servitor creatures, which is why red dragons aren't listed.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Apr 2016 :  06:46:49  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kalzareinad, The Keeper of Dark Wonders: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2016/04/kalzareinad-the-keeper-of-dark-wonders/

Kalzareinad was a deity of magic mentioned originally in an adventure in FOR1 Draconomicon. For the last two millennia, he had one worshiper remaining, sustaining him and keeping him from deific death. This ended with him voluntarily merging with Kereska during the Time of Troubles in the Forgotten Realms, but need not be the case in other settings.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 May 2016 :  05:48:24  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rais, The Cogitative One: http://blog.aulddragon.com/2016/05/rais-the-cogitative-one/

Rais is another minor deity that was mentioned rather briefly in a single 2nd Edition product. In her case, she was created to be a deity for the dragons (particularly silver dragons) of the air world Edill in the Spelljammer supplement SJR6 Greyspace, which detailed the planets in the crystal sphere encompassing the Greyhawk setting. I developed her as a deity of philosophy and logic, with an emphasis on the truths and creative power of thought. While minor, she can prove to be a very interesting deity in a campaign.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  08:45:02  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Faluzure the Night Dragon: http://bit.ly/1ZcdvtA

Faluzure is by far the most insidious evil of all the draconic gods. He longs for a multiverse that is beyond death; inhabited solely by the undead, and ruled by him and various forms of undead dragons. He stalks the planes, feeding off the life energy of the wisest and the best to power himself and his magic. If there is one force that could unite the good and evil members of dragon-kind, it is the Night Dragon.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1536 Posts
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  11:37:36  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome. It's nice to see you incorporated some of the undescribed powers attributed to Faluzure into his stat block; MM doesn't really elaborate on his growing powers over disease, for example.

Would you mind if I incorporated some of this into a Pathfinder statblock I'm working on for his avatar?
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  21:22:11  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Awesome. It's nice to see you incorporated some of the undescribed powers attributed to Faluzure into his stat block; MM doesn't really elaborate on his growing powers over disease, for example.

Would you mind if I incorporated some of this into a Pathfinder statblock I'm working on for his avatar?


Sure, go ahead!
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 :  21:31:54  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Faluzure the Night Dragon: http://bit.ly/1ZcdvtA

Faluzure is by far the most insidious evil of all the draconic gods. He longs for a multiverse that is beyond death; inhabited solely by the undead, and ruled by him and various forms of undead dragons. He stalks the planes, feeding off the life energy of the wisest and the best to power himself and his magic. If there is one force that could unite the good and evil members of dragon-kind, it is the Night Dragon.

Jeff


Also he played a role in a really bad D&D movie. Perhaps saying "really bad" and "D&D movie" is redundant.
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 02 Jun 2016 :  10:41:44  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

Also he played a role in a really bad D&D movie. Perhaps saying "really bad" and "D&D movie" is redundant.


I think I can safely say that's one source I have no problem ignoring. :D

I actually didn't realize he was in any of the movies, as I only ever saw the first one, and that one pretty much ensured I never saw any others. :)

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jul 2016 :  08:08:34  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Task the Wrester: http://bit.ly/29aUTaK

Task is the deity of greed, the pure unadulterated avarice that particularly affects evil dragonkind. Whereas Astilabor represents the desire to acquire treasure for the status and utility a large hoard brings, Task represents the selfish desire to own wealth for the sake of wealth itself and the desire to take what others have simply to deprive them of it.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Aug 2016 :  07:21:28  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG

The draconic deity of humor and music, Hlal was detailed first in the Forgotten Realms accessory FOR1 Draconomicon; but with the release of The Cult of the Dragon accessory, she was described as an aspect of Aasterinian due to the similarity between the two deities. I decided to split the two up as was done in 3rd Edition, in part because Hlal fills the empty niche of a Chaotic Good power in the pantheon, which was lacking without her presence. I kept their similarity as an element of her mythos, however, so those who wish to merge them can do so.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2427 Posts
Posted - 04 Aug 2016 :  02:37:22  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG
Nice. Maybe too long "Allies" row, but why not, better list too much than too little.
quote:
in part because Hlal fills the empty niche of a Chaotic Good power in the pantheon, which was lacking without her presence.
Since there are CG dragons, that was lacking indeed.
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 04 Aug 2016 :  08:25:38  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG
Nice. Maybe too long "Allies" row, but why not, better list too much than too little.


She's one of the few deities that has expanded her following outside of dragonkind, and is by far the most social. The only one I think would have a comparable social/alliance network is Bahamut, and the only other deity who has expanded outside of dragons (besides Bahamut) is Tiamat. Most other dragon deities just have alliances with other dragon deities, and one or two like-minded non-dragon deities.

quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

quote:
Originally posted by AuldDragon

in part because Hlal fills the empty niche of a Chaotic Good power in the pantheon, which was lacking without her presence.
Since there are CG dragons, that was lacking indeed.


True, but there's also an established theme in FOR1 Draconomicon that dragons kind of merge different deity ethoses in their own worldview; for example, many LG dragons look to LN Lendys for justice, and add NG Tamara for her mercy and temperance. However, with all of the unique Draconomicon, Monster Mythology, and other published deities, it makes that one lack more obvious (using just one source or another, there are a number of other gaps). I see dragon clergy as a very small minority of dragons overall, with the majority of dragons following deities who cover their preferred interests; for example, gold or silver dragons with interests in history and learning may have an affinity for Arcanic, without conforming to his LN nature, or silver dragons who particularly love living among humans having an affinity for Hlal, while maintaining their LG alignment, and so forth.

But, as I said, the gap was pretty glaring, especially with the expanded pantheon I've assembled. The pantheon as it stands consists of 2 LGs, 1 NG, 1 CG, 2 LNs, 4 Ns, 4 CNs, 1 LE, 2 NEs, and 2 CEs. It's pretty heavily weighted towards Neutrality and Chaotic Neutrality, even though those are comparatively rare draconic alignments, which I think adds a fascinating aspect to the pantheon. It's also probably one reason dragons tend to be a force for chaos in the world. :)

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Sep 2016 :  22:02:33  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sardior the Ruby Dragon: http://bit.ly/2bMvFiS

Presented as an archetype of the gem dragons in Dragon Magazine #37, [url=http://bit.ly/2bMvFiS]Sardior the Ruby Dragon[/url] fit in well as a deity with Bahamut and Tiamat. He was only rarely mentioned during 1st and 2nd Edition, which helped form my description of him as a mostly forgotten deity outside of neutral dragons themselves. Enjoy!

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 :  07:53:42  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tamara the Merciful: http://bit.ly/2dMW2KH

Tamara was one of the members of the draconic pantheon presented in FOR1 Draconomicon. In her role as a goddess of life and forgiveness, she is favored by many good dragons, while most dragons call on her blessing at some point in their lives when looking for mates, and later for her protection of their eggs and hatchlings. She is the consort of Lendys, and tries to moderate his harsh form of justice.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 :  22:32:48  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kereska Wonderbringer: http://bit.ly/2fbhbMv

Kereska is the energetic deity of magic within the draconic pantheon, who is said to have taught dragons how to harness the innate magical powers Io infused in them at the time of creation. She delights in magical creativity and blesses those dragons undertaking magical research and creation.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 :  19:03:49  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bahamut the Platinum Dragon: http://bit.ly/2gcEmW6

Bahamut is the lord of metallic dragons, and one of the greatest forces for good in the multiverse. He is a wise being, and a paragon of enlightened justice, the melding of mercy and forgiveness with just punishment. He is the template many metallic dragons strive to emulate, especially silvers, golds, and bronzes.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe

USA
111 Posts
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 :  09:44:17  Show Profile Send Elren_Wolfsbane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, this is amazing. Good job
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.

(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)

-Elren Wolfsbane
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 :  19:50:57  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Elren_Wolfsbane

Wow, this is amazing. Good job


Thanks!

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts
Posted - 24 Dec 2016 :  05:03:45  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've wandered the thread, and I very much appreciate all the work you've put into this. Excellent work, and, please, do continue!
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 25 Dec 2016 :  07:37:09  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer

I've wandered the thread, and I very much appreciate all the work you've put into this. Excellent work, and, please, do continue!


Thanks! I have no plans of stopping, although I can usually only get one finished per month. Keep an eye on the thread in a week for a new entry!

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  07:15:15  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Io the Ninefold Dragon: http://bit.ly/2iuNgmv

Wrapping up the draconic deities is the creator of all dragonkind himself, Io. Much like Annam, he is said to be the creator of the universe, wherein other deities have built their own worlds and own races. He is an experimental deity, tweaking dracoform species and their environments in order to produce unique combinations. Despite his experimentality, he is not a particularly active deity, preferring watching to interfering.

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe

USA
505 Posts
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  19:39:26  Show Profile  Visit Darkmeer's Homepage Send Darkmeer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent writeup on Io, AuldDragon! That's a lot of work to get that right, and I think you did a most excellent job!
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME."
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
572 Posts
Posted - 01 Jan 2017 :  20:06:18  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I appreciate it! :D

Jeff
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
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