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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Apr 2006 : 20:32:38
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I'm reading the Cloakmaster Cycle, but while I have volumes 3 and 5, I don't have The Radiant Dragon. Will someone please point me towards a summary of it online (more detailed than the cover blurb), so that I won't be missing too much when I start reading the 5th book.
(Having read Liriel Baenre's life "inside out" and Elminster's backward, I think I can handle reading Radiant Dragon after the others, but I don't want to miss any important factoids when I begin book 5.
Thanks in advance. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 18:12:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I'm reading the Cloakmaster Cycle, but while I have volumes 3 and 5, I don't have The Radiant Dragon. Will someone please point me towards a summary of it online (more detailed than the cover blurb), so that I won't be missing too much when I start reading the 5th book.
If you're looking for a copy of Radiant Dragon, drop me a line (elainecunningham@cox.net). Yesterday I was digging through boxes of author copies, trying to scrounge up some copies of Thornhold, Harpers #16 (found four copies!), and I came across a few copies of RD.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 21:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Dead Beat is a lot of fun, but I'd strongly suggest that you read the previous Harry Dresden novels first, if you haven't already.
I'd only read the first of the DRESDEN FILES books, but enjoyed it. Doubt I'll make it to ButcherCon this fall, but do plan on seeking out more of Jim's books. Thanks for reminding me, Elaine.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 22:51:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Dead Beat is a lot of fun, but I'd strongly suggest that you read the previous Harry Dresden novels first, if you haven't already.
I'd only read the first of the DRESDEN FILES books, but enjoyed it. Doubt I'll make it to ButcherCon this fall, but do plan on seeking out more of Jim's books. Thanks for reminding me, Elaine.
Steven
I just picked up the first book, myself. But I can't get to it immediately.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2006 : 23:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Dead Beat is a lot of fun, but I'd strongly suggest that you read the previous Harry Dresden novels first, if you haven't already.
I'd only read the first of the DRESDEN FILES books, but enjoyed it. Doubt I'll make it to ButcherCon this fall, but do plan on seeking out more of Jim's books. Thanks for reminding me, Elaine.
Steven
ButcherCon? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2006 : 12:22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Mrs. Cunningham, I have a quick question.
-The Elven sentence, "Quefirre soora kan izzt", is translated as, "Amnestria, can it really be you?". What exactly does each word translate as, if you don't mind answering?
Before answering this question, I have to confess one of the Realm's dirty little secrets: linguistically speaking, Faerun is NOT Middle Earth. Not even close. In other words, there has been no real attempt to create a cohesive and logical elven language. You can find vocabulary lists here and there, but for the most part, gamers and authors make things up as they go along, with the only real criterion being that the words look and sound like "something an elf might say."
When I wrote Elfshadow, way back in 1990, the only linguistic references were the elven personal and place names mentioned in the Old Gray Boxed Set. The patterns and spellings in the sentence you quoted seemed consistant with those in the early game materials, and the sounds struck me as evocative of the meaning and emotion held by the question. And I think it's best to leave it at that. To parse the sentence would require an underlying grammar and syntax that simply doesn't exist, and a word-by-word translation would be fairly meaningless without this linguistic structure.
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2006 : 12:40:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Mrs. Cunningham, I have a quick question.
-The Elven sentence, "Quefirre soora kan izzt", is translated as, "Amnestria, can it really be you?". What exactly does each word translate as, if you don't mind answering?
If you reeplace Quefirre with Amnestria and say it with a thick geordie accent it almost sounds right  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2006 : 13:22:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Mrs. Cunningham, I have a quick question.
-The Elven sentence, "Quefirre soora kan izzt", is translated as, "Amnestria, can it really be you?". What exactly does each word translate as, if you don't mind answering?
If you reeplace Quefirre with Amnestria and say it with a thick geordie accent it almost sounds right
If you assume that some sort of elven endearment was substituted for "Amnestria," this works. :) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 05:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
If you assume that some sort of elven endearment was substituted for "Amnestria," this works. :)
-That's the rub. As a obsessive-compulsive hobby, I've been cataloguing canon FR Elven words for a while now. I'm trying not to mix assumptions in there, because assumptions can be wrong, and then I'll look silly!  |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2006 : 08:33:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
If you assume that some sort of elven endearment was substituted for "Amnestria," this works. :)
-That's the rub. As a obsessive-compulsive hobby, I've been cataloguing canon FR Elven words for a while now. I'm trying not to mix assumptions in there, because assumptions can be wrong, and then I'll look silly!
Well met
Hmmm, i'd certainly be interested to see such work, Dagnirion, if I may  Please contact me to discuss. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2006 : 23:57:14
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Hmm... time for some meaningless translation :)
Quefirre soora kan izzt
Quefirre: My eyes lie
soora: manifestation/unreal existence/something of high value that has come to be in doubt
kan: truth (sharp sound to the a)
izzt: this place
These translations show the essentially different thought pattern underlying the elven language. A translation into common carries merely the gist of the words. The first two words originally had a religous meaning with regards to the mortal world and the afterlife, to a race the ancient elves lived with, that has been lost as they came into common use, by those who lacked the same spiritual understanding and could not understand the words' true meanings... although some elves tried to relate the meanings of these words to objects in their own faith, and thus remember a slightly perverted version of the deeper meaning in those terms.
----------------
:)
Like it?
Can't really expect words or idioms in one language to map directly to the same in other languages and still carry all of their meaning. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2006 : 04:30:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Hmm... time for some meaningless translation :)
Quefirre soora kan izzt
Quefirre: My eyes lie
soora: manifestation/unreal existence/something of high value that has come to be in doubt
kan: truth (sharp sound to the a)
izzt: this place
These translations show the essentially different thought pattern underlying the elven language. A translation into common carries merely the gist of the words. The first two words originally had a religous meaning with regards to the mortal world and the afterlife, to a race the ancient elves lived with, that has been lost as they came into common use, by those who lacked the same spiritual understanding and could not understand the words' true meanings... although some elves tried to relate the meanings of these words to objects in their own faith, and thus remember a slightly perverted version of the deeper meaning in those terms.
-All that's nice, Zsych, but not canon. I dont't want to add in things based on pure conjecture- though the reasoning and execution of your conjecture is excellent. I like your thinking and reasoning, though...
(By the way, Evermeet would easily trump Shade...) |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2006 : 12:21:58
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Thank you... i find that the spirit behind words tends to be very different in different languages, even if the end meaning is approximately the same.
I was basically just offering it as a suggestion to Elaine.
As for Shade...
If i was standing beside Telamont, Shade would win :)
There's a severe lack of imagination going on, on how the technologically oriented would wield magic. I might just have to give Telamont a dose of good sense :)
... Though perhaps i shouldn't give Shade's potential too much credit. Ed seems to have originally designed Netheril not as an example of an advanced magical society, but of a society where wizards had gone power mad(though personally i find nothing wrong with wanting to be a god, why should people aspire to anything less? :))
... so the actual technological aspects of the society and their implications were never fully developed.
Of course, if Netheril and Shade existed in the way i portray them(in regards to their having learned advanced engineering principles, and being a basically advanced as opposed to middle-age culture), Evermeet's victory would be in serious doubt, and be only through totally unexpected high-magics.
.. starting that debate here would be kinda extreme though :) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2006 : 22:17:00
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Hey Elaine . . . relatively minor and ultimately unimportant question here, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would indulge me.
When Lolth was calling her Yor'thae in the last book of the War of the Spider Queen, they made a big deal about how the fiends and the prospective Yor'thae, and a lot of other "sensitive" creature could feel the call.
Since Liriel and Lolth were pretty close at one point in time, and Lolth had big plans for her, would she have sensed anything going on, even slighly (bad dreams?), or is she completely beyond any even resisdual connection to her former goddess?
Thanks Elaine! |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2006 : 23:00:36
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| The events of the Shadows & Starlight trilogy occurred several years before WotSQ, so we haven't seen Liriel's reaction. I'm guessing that yes, she did have a few tough days and some really interesting nightmares. :) |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2006 : 23:04:28
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| Thanks Elaine . . . I was just curious . . . I imagined that being touched by a goddess doesn't go away TOO easily . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2006 : 23:54:32
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Come to think if it . . . I bet that made for an interesting explanation to Sharlara and Thorn, assuming they are still with Liriel 13 years later . . . and assuming Liriel knows WHY she is having a rough time of it.
Have I mentioned I would REALLY love to see you get to write these characters again?
Again, thanks for the reply. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 00:42:59
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Have I mentioned I would REALLY love to see you get to write these characters again?
It has come up a time or two. 
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 07:55:11
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Hmmm... i'd thought that if you cast gods out of your mind(faith), they stayed out.
Kinda like how Lloth couldn't directly attack Drizzt because he had totally rejected her.
These beings are essentially beings empowered by the beliefs of mortals, or weakened by their disbelief.
---
Still, it would be interesting to know what Liriel felt, but i don't think we can expect it as other than a short story in an anthology.
Are any more Liriel books forthcoming Elaine? Do you write by your own choice, or only when you are contracted to write a book? |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 13:04:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Hmmm... i'd thought that if you cast gods out of your mind(faith), they stayed out.
Kinda like how Lloth couldn't directly attack Drizzt because he had totally rejected her.
These beings are essentially beings empowered by the beliefs of mortals, or weakened by their disbelief.
---
Still, it would be interesting to know what Liriel felt, but i don't think we can expect it as other than a short story in an anthology.
Are any more Liriel books forthcoming Elaine? Do you write by your own choice, or only when you are contracted to write a book?
Lolth never had a foothold in Drizzt's mind, heart, and soul. Liriel once held an affection for the drow goddess and willingly opened herself to Lolth's power. I don't think the sort of mark from an experience like that fades easily or quickly.
There are no Liriel books in the pipeline. Alas.
I do get some choice on what books I write in the Realms; for example, the S&S#6 book came about after I expressed a desire to revisit these characters and wrap up the series. That said, I've been talking to various editors about this book for several years now. I guess the planets just weren't properly aligned before now. Same with WINDWALKER, the third Liriel book. I submitted several written proposals and many hints in the years between the second and third book, but the book came about when WotC decided the time was right.
In a shared world, it's really not possible to let writers do whatever stories they want to write, whenever they feel like writing them. WotC has to balance their publishing schedule (can't have four pirate books and three books about gnomes all in the same year), and there are a lot of story lines, continuing characters, and established authors--not to mention the need to bring new people and perspectives into the Realms. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 13:15:11
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I think that three books about gnomes would signal Dendar being released from the Peaks of Flame, but I could be wrong . . .  |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 14:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think that three books about gnomes would signal Dendar being released from the Peaks of Flame, but I could be wrong . . .
Three books of gnomes, four horses of the apocolypse, . . . . Yeah, I think I see where you're going with this. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2006 : 17:25:39
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
(can't have four pirate books and three books about gnomes all in the same year)
How about a trilogy about gnomish pirates? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 06:32:39
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Don't stories about characters people like, sell?
Besides, you don't have to have RSEs, the world at large need not be changed, it's the experiences and emotions of the characters afterall, that make the story worth reading.
.. Liriel should be old enough for some plane hopping by now. Endless possibilities await the young wizard.
Then again, i think that it's about time someone wrote the Realms version of Harry Potter, or rather books featuring children, to get the younger lot into FR. I'm fairly sure i've never read about young teenage adventurers in any of the novels :)
(though children being heroes on an epic scale would be hard to stomach, young wizards and fighters might not be, and like i said, it's the emotions you can empathise with that make the story enjoyable... those don't have to result from world shattering events)
Anyway, i think you could write a good story in that area Elaine. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2006 : 13:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Then again, i think that it's about time someone wrote the Realms version of Harry Potter, or rather books featuring children, to get the younger lot into FR. I'm fairly sure i've never read about young teenage adventurers in any of the novels :)...Anyway, i think you could write a good story in that area, Elaine.
Interesting thought, and thanks for the vote of confidence!
WotC has been exploring the young reader market with their Mirrorstone book line, but if there are any plans for a Harry Potter-type character in the Realms, I haven't heard of them. I suspect, however, that it might be difficult to maintain a two-tiered setting, especially given the current trend toward dark, grim tales and the clamor for "mature" themes and villains who prevail over heroes. Many parents of grade school kids keep an eye on what their kids are reading, watching, and playing. If they were to skim parts of the WotSQ series, for example, they might draw conclusions about the Realms, and therefore the HP-type books, that would be prohibitive.
It happens.
For example, shortly after Book of Vile Darkness was published, the D&D after-school clubs in our town were shut down and D&D was outlawed in the schools. People can talk about shrink-wrap and age lables all day long, but the fact is, younger siblings get hold of big brother's D&D materials. Mothers observe what their 9-year-olds are reading. If one of those books describes a spell required sex with a corpse, that mother is likely to pitch a fit, draw sweeping conclusions, throw the baby out with the bath water (insert additional cliches as desired), bitch to the school board, and there you go. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 09 May 2006 17:11:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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