| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Rikudou
Acolyte
12 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 08:29:00
|
Greetings, are you in favor in the idea of Elminster replacing Azuth as the new Lord of Spells? After all he has done for Mystra and Faerun I think it's time to elevate Elminster from being a Chosen into a god, what do you think?
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 09:36:18
|
I think it's a good idea.
Would free up room for another unreliable narrator to take over too.
|
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
 |
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1159 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 10:19:22
|
| Elminster is worth too much money for WotC to let that happen to him. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12229 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 12:07:20
|
| Real reality v/s game reality.... would the world suddenly surge with Elminster worshippers (game reality, probably not.... real reality?) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 12:56:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Elminster is worth too much money for WotC to let that happen to him.
As long as he exists in the setting, they can still go right on producing novels about him as a lesser god. |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 13:10:04
|
No I don't see this as a good thing. Not that he wouldn't do it (his sense of duty is too strong) but I don't think El wants to become a god. Ed has portrayed him as feeling very old and wanting to rest (he just can't bring himself to do it) and I think he would elect to stay on Toril as a mortal (ok, near mortal) being to keep doing his work...which Ed has also stated in the novels. El just can't seem to find anyone he's willing to replace himself with.
Part of this, I think, is that El is a tragic character in a sense. He wants to rest. He wants to find a suitable replacement. But he can't bring himself to actually put that burden on someone else. He looks for folks to replace him because he knows he could actually be slain and/or forced out of the picture by his enemies. But it's not in his nature to give up and El actually cares too much about the Realms to do so and cares too much about individuals to lay that burden on someone else's shoulders. Add the fact that there are things that El has been working on for centuries (coupled with his inability to give up) and he just WONT do it.
Now, that said...I think it could make a great story. El finally 'giving up' because he's lost too much (perhaps Storm's death could be the catalyst). We would likely end up with a situation like the end of El Enraged where he slays a few dozen tyrants and evil creatures until his magic completely gives out and he's slain for good. But such a story would need to be handled very well (and in multiple books...he deserves nothing less than a quintet methinks). Even then, I don't think it should mean his end...perhaps he is elevated to godhood (imagine Manshoon rejoicing in his victory as El's slayer only to find he's become a god) or perhaps he takes on another, more mysterious form at Mystra's request (although he's earned oblivion if you ask me). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 03 Feb 2014 13:15:57 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12229 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 13:42:32
|
| If anything, I see him giving himself up to the weave kind of like the Simbul did. In fact, given my love of pact magic, I would love it if there were different types of vestiges (as presented in Secrets of Pact Magic)... and one of those "types" is a "weave vestige". Thus, perhaps people can channel/bind the spirit of Elminster. Personally, I'd like that something like this happens with not only those who willingly give themselves up to the weave, but also those who accidentally do so. Thus, some demi-liches may find themselves losing themselves to the weave... watchghosts & spectral mages may be something akin to this as well. Of course, unlike other pact magic users, "weave vestiges" would definitely be affected by problems in the weave (though whether standard vestiges and binders are affected is definitely debatable). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 16:56:12
|
Oh I can see him giving himself to the Weave more than anything else...but then he would still exist in some 'mysterious' form no?
Oh, and hail and well met Rikuduo, welcome to CK. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36998 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 16:58:20
|
Gods, can you imagine how pissed Manshoon would be if Elminster became a god?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 19:36:40
|
Manshoon: And now, Elminster Aumar, you die at my hands! BUAHAHAHAHA
Elminster (in his best Darth Vader anguished scream impression): NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Manshoon is left with a perplexed look on his face. He could have sworn that Elminster winked right at the end there.
A few days later, Manny is busy spying on a few buxom lasses (one of them looking a lot like Queen Filfaeril) in a hot tub when one of them suddenly turns into Elminster!
Elminster: Ah ye gorgous lasses, might ye be willing to become the first converts to my church? I am Elminster, God of Mages who has taken the place of fallen Azuth. (Elminster then turns toward Manny's scrying sensor and winks).
Manny: NOOOOOOOO!!! He knew, that thrice-damned Mystran bastard KNEW! |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 20:20:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Manshoon: And now, Elminster Aumar, you die at my hands! BUAHAHAHAHA
Elminster (in his best Darth Vader anguished scream impression): NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Manshoon is left with a perplexed look on his face. He could have sworn that Elminster winked right at the end there.
A few days later, Manny is busy spying on a few buxom lasses (one of them looking a lot like Queen Filfaeril) in a hot tub when one of them suddenly turns into Elminster!
Elminster: Ah ye gorgous lasses, might ye be willing to become the first converts to my church? I am Elminster, God of Mages who has taken the place of fallen Azuth. (Elminster then turns toward Manny's scrying sensor and winks).
Manny: NOOOOOOOO!!! He knew, that thrice-damned Mystran bastard KNEW!
I could so see that happening |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2014 : 20:47:06
|
Perhaps a tripartite deity of magic? Elminster, Manshoon and...?
Vangey, perhaps? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 06:26:40
|
Why replace Azuth when you can just resurrect him? Perhaps Mystra can force Azuth's essence out of Asmodeus. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12229 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 06:43:03
|
| She's barely back alive, so I can't see her forcing this issue. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 09:33:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
She's barely back alive, so I can't see her forcing this issue.
Having read latest Evans book, i think we maybe up for a big surprise on Azuth affair! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 10:23:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
She's barely back alive, so I can't see her forcing this issue.
In time, she should be in full power. Otherwise, what's the point of bringing her back? When that happens, she can easily beat Azzy's arse and suck Azuth's essence out of him. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 12:45:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
She's barely back alive, so I can't see her forcing this issue.
In time, she should be in full power. Otherwise, what's the point of bringing her back? When that happens, she can easily beat Azzy's arse and suck Azuth's essence out of him.
This opens that particular can of worms again. Mystra in her full power could not rescue El from normal Archdevil. So it is highly questionable could she rescue Azuth from much more powerfull archdevil, who is by the way greater god. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 12:57:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
She's barely back alive, so I can't see her forcing this issue.
In time, she should be in full power. Otherwise, what's the point of bringing her back? When that happens, she can easily beat Azzy's arse and suck Azuth's essence out of him.
This opens that particular can of worms again. Mystra in her full power could not rescue El from normal Archdevil. So it is highly questionable could she rescue Azuth from much more powerfull archdevil, who is by the way greater god.
As the old saying goes, if there's a will, there's a way. The only reason Mystra couldn't or wouldn't personally rescue El was that her sorcery would tear the fabric of reality, creating holes between the Nine Hells and the Prime. This time, she could still do it indirectly. Perhaps threaten Azzy that if he doesn't relinquish Azuth's essence, she'd give Mephistopheles some power boost, enough to shred the Lord of Nessus to pieces. And we know how Mephy would love that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 14:49:29
|
My theory is that Azuth is actually manipulating Asmodeus from within...in other words Azzy bit off more than he could chew. Either way, I think Ao is going to restore all of the gods to power and set much firmer rules for future behavior. I also think Azzy will likely remain a deity (not sure if he will be a greater god though).
Not going to get into the debate about who wins in a Mystra v. Azzy fight other than to say I think Mystra would have the upper hand (but not a guaranteed win). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8067 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2014 : 23:16:13
|
I wouldn‘t put good odds on any attempt to manipulate and deceive Asmodeus, Lord of Lies, regardless of who‘s attempting to pull the strings.
Elminster is already godlike enough, I‘m sure if Ed had his way then El would happily lay down his quasi-divine mantle of responsibilities and just wish to be a normal guy. If El actually became a proper god the Mary-Sue grumblers would never be silenced. Besides, El is indispensable ... he cannot be fired, he cannot be promoted, he cannot be replaced, he is most prolific (and profitable) exactly where he is.
Having said that ... I‘m all for returning Azuth to his exalted station. Fortunately, in D&D and the Realms, old gods can never truly die. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 00:58:42
|
| Well I have it straight from Erin Evans that something is going on with Asmodeus where Azuth is concerned...although she wouldn't say exactly what was going on. There is compelling evidence that Azuth is working from within Azzy. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 02:00:38
|
| Azutheus! Azutheus! |
|
|
|
Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 05:41:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
My theory is that Azuth is actually manipulating Asmodeus from within...in other words Azzy bit off more than he could chew. Either way, I think Ao is going to restore all of the gods to power and set much firmer rules for future behavior. I also think Azzy will likely remain a deity (not sure if he will be a greater god though).
Not going to get into the debate about who wins in a Mystra v. Azzy fight other than to say I think Mystra would have the upper hand (but not a guaranteed win).
Why would it take over 100 years for Azuth to reawaken and start controlling Asmodeus? |
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 06:22:25
|
| Who said it took 100 years? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 07:02:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Who said it took 100 years?
My thoughts exactly. I think Azuth has been manipulating Asmo for long time, and now he's plans are finally coming to fruitation. |
|
|
|
Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 22:24:53
|
| I dont like the idea... Pretty much because I dont like Faerun loosing its guardian... Just like I didnt like when Gandalf went west and left middle earth! |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2014 : 23:25:30
|
Tolkein's world was all about the ending of an age so that, in 'modern' times, we have no more dwarves, elves, ents, etc. That meant the Five Wizards had to leave as well.
Faerun, on the other hand, needs to keep its 'guardians' and power groups in place. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8067 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 00:42:41
|
Azuth is not the only godling Asmodeus has eaten. Not even the most powerful. Only the most recent.
Of course, the veracity of that statement depends greatly on whether one considers Planescape lore or 4E lore as canon. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 02:02:51
|
| I vastly prefer Planescape. Of course, I know next to nothing about 4e. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Elminster replacing Azuth
