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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 11:00:41
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I never liked Pandorym and I like the idea of making it the same as Entropy. As even the name suggest I have it as a powerful planar from Negative Energy Plane. This way some may thing that it could beat god's avatar under the Imaskari barrier. Trouble is with getting it back as it is really powerful and do not want to go back. For that reason Imaskari found a way to split its body and mind so they made it innert.
If you are into a diefic soap opera then Shar could have been behind this. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11854 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 14:22:20
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| Where'd all this shothragot stuff come from? Any canon sources or all homebrew? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 17:12:40
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FR and GH connections {rubs hands together... "Good, good..."}
Now we just ladle a dollop of my Stargatesque theories on top concerning the Imaskari involvment with the Baklunish (having gotten their knowledge the Imakari and even been a 'conquered colony' of sorts of them), and the Netherese later using Spelljamming (Oh... My.. GOD... now you guys have me doing it!) to do the same with the Suel (thus, like RW 'super powers', they had their little conflagrations in on '3rd world planets', to their way of think - "brushfire wars" to them).
Then when Imaskar itself came under attack (from the Mulan Gods), all the most powerful mages were called home from their other-world colonies, leaving the Baklunish mostly unprotected (except by native Mages who learned the 'art'). The Suel (lead by their Netherese 'masters') performed the Invoked Devastation, and the Baklunish responded with the Rain of Colorless Fire (a bit of magic, BTW, that they got from the Imaskari, who in turn got it from the Fey... the same exact ritual that was done to Miyeritar which created the High Moor!)
And I built all of that after realizing some 12 years ago or so that Tan Chin was a Suel Lich. Everything else just fell into place.
Oh, and you really need to involve Aoskar in all that. 'Kar' means 'children' in the Imaskari tongue. The leader they followed into the fertile Raurin basin was named Ima, and thus, they became Ima's Kar. Now apply that to the God named Aoskar... 
Disclaimer:
Although loosely based on some canon bits, I would have to say 99,9% of the above is pure conjecture (homebrew). Someone else a LONG time ago had given me the idea of using Aoskar in Imaskar, and the idea that something connected to the Imaskari once 'assailed' Sigil lends itself even further to the juxtaposition of the Netehrese (who also assailed the Outlands) and the Imaskari. I think of them like ancient Rome and Greece, and like those two, one may have been even 'greater in its day', but the earlier was waxing while the latter was waning. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Sep 2017 17:12:57 |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
525 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 20:45:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
(Or I can make a quick review, if you don't want to read novels)
I read the summary in the link you posted. I will admit I have a large backlog of things I need to read so doubtful I'll get to them any time soon. If there is any additional info, or year markers I could add in, I would be very grateful for that info. My weak point is 4/5E I own or have access to all 3.5E or older material.
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Where'd all this shothragot stuff come from? Any canon sources or all homebrew?
All the important Shothragot info comes from Dragon 362, "Elder Evils: Shothragot" by Robert J. Schwalb, March 18, 2008.
((Sorry about the URL the forum code doesn't seem to like webarchive links.))
https://web.archive.org/web/20090619191816/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080318a
Elder Evils was published in December of 2007, but has no reference to Shothragot. There was the "Essence of Evil" article in Dungeon 152, also November/December 2007, but there was no Faerun specific content in it, it mostly detailed the final "dungeon" before facing Shothragot. All the info from the timeline and above in my post should be canon in either FR or GH, I'd be glad to dig up any other references.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
FR and GH connections {rubs hands together... "Good, good..."}
Can you say "A Temporal Chronology of the Primes", still one of my fondest memories of surfing the net, thanks Brian.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And I built all of that after realizing some 12 years ago or so that Tan Chin was a Suel Lich. Everything else just fell into place.
Oh, and you really need to involve Aoskar in all that. 'Kar' means 'children' in the Imaskari tongue. The leader they followed into the fertile Raurin basin was named Ima, and thus, they became Ima's Kar. Now apply that to the God named Aoskar...
It is lore theories like these that I absolutely love. We should all get drinks sometime. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 27 Sep 2017 20:50:50 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11854 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 21:06:15
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Thank you. Dragon 362 here I come when today's work is over.
EDIT: Oh, I thought there were actual canon links linking shothragot and Halaster. I don't see any in the article. These black cysts are more like oozes made of tar. They can dissolve dead bodies, but not living ones. They could maybe work though as that dark maelstrom in Ordulin since they're noted as having ties to the plane of shadow, but only if one wanted to link Shar and Tharizdun. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 28 Sep 2017 00:16:08 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2482 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 21:32:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Gelcur
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
(Or I can make a quick review, if you don't want to read novels)
I read the summary in the link you posted. I will admit I have a large backlog of things I need to read so doubtful I'll get to them any time soon. If there is any additional info, or year markers I could add in, I would be very grateful for that info. My weak point is 4/5E I own or have access to all 3.5E or older material.
Well, to make a long story short:
The piece of the Voidharrow that fell in Toril (mentioned in the link I previously posted), fell in western Chessenta around 1340 DR. As the Voidharrow was the will of Tharizdun given physical form, it was enough to entice some people to the faith of Tharizdun, so a cult of him grew in the area. Thanks to Mystra influence, the cult was stopped. But, with Mystra "dead" during the Spellplague, a new cult was formed in the newborn nation of Akanûl.
The cult of Tharizdun was still active in Akanûl, Chessenta and in the Heartlands in 1479. The protagonists of the Sword of the Gods novel, as well as player characters in some adventures, deal with some cells of the Cult and destroy the Voidharrow for good, but the cult is not destroyed as a whole.
In the Princes of the Apocalypse adventure, that happens around 1491, adventurers have to deal with the cult of Elemental Evil, that in 4e was related with the faith of Tharizdun (in his guise as the Elder Elemental Eye), that means the influence of Tharizdun is still there in the current Realms. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 27 Sep 2017 21:37:12 |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
525 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2017 : 01:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Thank you. Dragon 362 here I come when today's work is over.
EDIT: Oh, I thought there were actual canon links linking shothragot and Halaster. I don't see any in the article. These black cysts are more like oozes made of tar. They can dissolve dead bodies, but not living ones. They could maybe work though as that dark maelstrom in Ordulin since they're noted as having ties to the plane of shadow, but only if one wanted to link Shar and Tharizdun.
I'm sorry I was mistaken the reference to Halaster and Undermountain were linked from that article to a previous article, Dragon 361, "Shadow of Shothragot: The Price of Survival."
https://web.archive.org/web/20090603085106/https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20071130
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
The piece of the Voidharrow that fell in Toril (mentioned in the link I previously posted), fell in western Chessenta around 1340 DR. As the Voidharrow was the will of Tharizdun given physical form, it was enough to entice some people to the faith of Tharizdun, so a cult of him grew in the area. Thanks to Mystra influence, the cult was stopped. But, with Mystra "dead" during the Spellplague, a new cult was formed in the newborn nation of Akanûl.
The cult of Tharizdun was still active in Akanûl, Chessenta and in the Heartlands in 1479. The protagonists of the Sword of the Gods novel, as well as player characters in some adventures, deal with some cells of the Cult and destroy the Voidharrow for good, but the cult is not destroyed as a whole.
In the Princes of the Apocalypse adventure, that happens around 1491, adventurers have to deal with the cult of Elemental Evil, that in 4e was related with the faith of Tharizdun (in his guise as the Elder Elemental Eye), that means the influence of Tharizdun is still there in the current Realms.
Thanks. The dates are especially useful and the fact that Chessenta is mentioned yet again. If we have a date of 1340 DR maybe the Voidharrow had some sway over Entropy appears there in 1346 DR? Was the Voidharrow their long? |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 28 Sep 2017 02:02:01 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2482 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2017 : 02:35:50
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There are not many dates of events pre-Spellplague in the Sword of the Gods novel. We only know that the cult appeared around 1340 in western Chessenta, and that the first significant cult of "The Elder Elemental Eye" was destroyed in 1374 thanks to the efforts of many forces, including Mystra. Then, with the "dead" of Mystra in 1385, the cult grew unchecked in Akanûl, and by 1479 was quite dangerous again, thanks to the Voidharrow's Abyssal Plague growing in the multiverse.
However, with the Voidharrow destroyed in the Nerath world (by the heroes of the novels set in the Nentir Vale, and with the help of Tharizdun, as the Voidharrow had betrayed him), the Voidharrow in other worlds lost it powers and was defeated by heroes of these worlds (including Demascus in the Realms).
If you want to use the Voidharrow in your adventures, there is lore of it in the Dungeon magazines 192 and 197. Sample Plague demons can be found here.
EDIT: I've also found a quick recap of the Voidharrow's story I've posted on other forum:
The Voidharrow is the Abyss of an alternate universe destroyed by an alternate version of Tharizdun (ie. not the Tharizdun from the Nentir Vale world, but another world's Tharizdun), that serves as the prison of (Nentir Vale's) Tharizdun. The gods trapped him there after he took the Shard of Pure Evil and rallied the Primordials against the gods, starting the Dawn War. The Voidharrow gained sentience thanks to Tharizdun divine nature, and became a servant of Tharizdun, though, as normal with the servants of the evil gods, the Voidharrow had its own agenda. When some mad cultists tried to free Tharizdun from its prison, using a fragment of the Living Gate (the gate that originally served as a portal linking the Nentir's Vale universe to the Far Realm, but was destroyed by the gods Ioun and Pelor), the Voidharrow betrayed Tharizdun and escaped alone, leaving Tharizdun in his prison. However, the Living Gate malfunctioned and was connected to other parallel worlds, splintering the Voidharrow and transporting it not only to the Nentir Vale world, but to the worlds of Dark Sun and the Forgotten Realms. That's why there are novels of the Abyssal Plague featured in those settings.
I've only read the main series of the Abyssal Plague novels, the ones that happen in the Nentir Vale's world. As I said, the abyssal plague (the disease) spread on the Vale and infected the green dragon Vestapalk, one of the most powerful dragons of the Vale. The portion of the Voidharrow that fell in the Nentir Vale controlled Vestapalk and began to spread the disease in the Vale, forcing the protagonist stop the disease at all cost. The disease however destroyed the Lower Quays of Fallcrest, also nearly obliterated Winterhaven and other towns before the heroes could destroy Vestapalk and the portion of the Voidharrow it carries.
I've not read the novels that happen in Dark Sun and the Forgotten Realms*, but I guess the heroes of those novels also destroyed the portions of the Voidharrow that fell in those worlds. The Forgotten Realms novels, however, did fulfill another role: (Nentir's Vale) Tharizdun got a cult in Toril, making it a deity in that world. He is still revered even after the Sundering, so he became an interloper deity. I do not know if something similar happened in Athas, but if it happen, that would mean Tharizdun is the first god to appear in that world (and one mad and evil, so Athas is doomed).
"Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale" includes both the abyssal plague (along the plague demons) and Vestapalk as enemies, with full stats and lore (and rules for the abyssal plague disease), and the plague demons also got 2 articles in the Dungeon Magazines (numbers 192 and 197) that expanded the monster levels up to epic tier (including stats for the Voidharrow) for DMs that want to focus their campaigns against the Abyssal Plague. In the novels, the Living Gate was also briefly connected to many other worlds (including Eberron), and one can use that to explain the existence of the abyssal plague in other worlds.
*I didn't had read Sword of the Gods when I wrote this. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 28 Sep 2017 02:54:35 |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
525 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2017 : 19:54:09
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| Thanks again. Nice summary, I'll try to get to those Dungeon Magazines. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
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About Pandorym (Elder Evil)
