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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2014 : 18:30:50
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Heh... this reminds me of how anemic my own Zhentil Keep index is. I can link to three specific mentions of the Keep in Questions For Ed this past year, to maybe save some scrolling time:
- page 2 (Sembian imperialism)
- page 6 (reception of Zhents abroad)
- page 38 (interaction with Lashan)
I'll chime in later if I can. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2014 : 00:37:13
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Well, Ed did an article series on Zhentil Keep in the now defunct Polyhedron magazine. Your chances of getting a copy of that lore are somewhat slim however.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 07 Jan 2014 04:26:00 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2014 : 02:20:15
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quote: Originally posted by George Krashos
Well, Ed did an article series on Zhentil Keep in the now defunct Polyhedron magazine. Your chances of getting a copy if that lore are somewhat slim however.
-- George Krashos
Agreed.
Though I would recommend keeping an eye or three on nobleknight.com for any second hand issues that may pop up. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2014 : 14:29:36
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Given that Khelben was a plans within plans sort, I'm sure that limiting Zhentish expansion was only one of the things his deal accomplished... But sadly, the change of direction that heralded 3E means we may never find out more about it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2014 : 11:29:57
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I have reached the faiths section in Zhentil Keep and i have been having a few ideas largely inspired by other topics here at the Keep.
Bane being the god of strife obviously derives power from strife everywhere in the realms even within his own church.
Now for whatever reason we have several distinct factions of the church of Bane (ignoring his death and the cyric problems).
The factions are:
1 - The Black Lord's Altar in Threskel ruled by Imperceptor Kabbarath.
2 - The Black Lord's Altar in Mulmaster ruled by the High Imperceptor
3 - The Dark Shrine/Black Altar ruled by Fzoul Chembryl.
And i reckon given the titles that the church in Mulmaster nominally ruled all the churches. That is until strife in the church changed that.
Now i did notice a few curious coincidences regarding the Dark Shrine/Black Altar and i am wondering if they are all connected somehow.
First is this quote
quote: Over the years, many followers of Bane noticed the social and fiscal benefits of working with the Zhentarim and the number of worshippers in Fzouls faction grew, while the High Imperceptor, often busy travelling throughout the Realms, continued to lose influence.
Then
quote: In the Year of the Prince (1357 DR), the High Imperceptor finally decided to do more than send demanding missives to the Black Altar in Zhentil Keep. He sent a delegation, headed by High Inquisitor Ginali, to yank the church of Bane in Zhentil Keep back under his control. Closet supporters of the High Imperceptor were convinced to make a rash assault on Fzoul and the Black Altar.
And finally
quote: Since the death of King Theris in the Year of Shadows (1358 DR), the city has been ruled by Imperceptor Kabbarath Telthaug, who secretly engineered the failure of the Kings Tournament proclaimed by Theris before his death to choose a worthy successor.
It seems a bit suspect that the high imperceptor of Bane suddenly decide to go travelling before an attack was made on the Dark Shrine and then a short time later King Therise of Mourktar dies and the King's Tournament to choose his successor is rigged.
Now i believe that Fzoul has close ties to Lord Knight Imperceptor Teldorn Darkhope in Mintar in more recent times. Such a relationship seems slighly implausible given the distance between them and unlikelihood of them ever meeting unless such alliances were forged many years before.
What if the High Imperceptor during his travels (prior to 1357) visited the other major church of Bane in Faerun and a pact of some sort was forged. He gave aid and expertise to Imperceptor Kabbarath to help assassinate King Therise, and in return was given forces to aid in the assault on the Dark Shrine in Zhentil Keep.
Now here comes the double cross. What if Imperceptor Kabbarath then informed Fzoul and that began the relationship between Zhentil Keep's church of Bane and Mourktar.
The loss of power and standing suffered by the church in Mulmaster allows the church in Mourktar to secede and form its own splinter church. Fzoul Chembryl likewise is able to save enough of his supporters to form his own splinter church which keepts the church in Mulmaster occupied and unable to deal with the church in Mourktar.
The relationship between Zhentil Keep and Mourktar then develops so that Fzoul and Teldorn collaborate to produce those artefacts for Bane's return.
Bane is happy because he hasnt really lost all that many supporters (in fact he gained a lot in Zhentil Keep) and strife is now rampant within his own church which gives him more power. Of course then he dies and this all goes to pot but the 3 separate churches are still vying for power and approval upon his rebirth. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2014 : 11:53:48
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I have to say some of the lore on the people of Zhentil Keep really is quite deep and intertwined when you collect it from different sources.
Sememmon was once named Malathar from Sembia and he happened to be in Zhentil Keep with the Toloth family when Manshoon began his bid to become a lord of Zhentil Keep.
Malathar saved Manshoon from the destruction of the Toloth and as a reward was tutored in magic by Manshoon himself. Malathar later faked his own death to escape his inevitable demise at Manshoon's hands. Whereupon he changed his name to Sememmon only to become Manshoon's student again.
Again i am not sure why it was decided that Sememmon would leave the Zhentarim and become an agent for the goodies. If anything i think Sememmon probably had a bit of a love thing for Manshoon. After all he saved his life and spent the best part of 100 years working closely within him. Even faking his own death so that he could return to work with him (because Manshoon would almost certainly have eliminated Malathar as a rival or through politics). Plus i like the idea of a Zhentarim controlled by a triumvirate of rulers (Fzoul, Manshoon, and Sememmon) each working from a different fortress.
Then there is Scyllua
Scyllua Darkhope was born in the Dales, secret daughter of Lashan Aumersair of Scardale. She was sold into slavery to the Zhents (probably by her own father who was working with the Zhents - he hoped to manipulate them to his own ends - he was wrong). There her mother attracted the attention of Teldorn Darkhope's cousin and they were taken into his household. It cannot be a coincidence that upon Fzoul Chembryl's ascension to high priest of Xvim and the return of Bane that he travelled to Mintar to forge the Sceptre of the Tyrant Kings with Teldorn Darkhope around the time that Scyllua was turned to the darkside by Orgauth.
I am a bit annoyed by the death of Scyllua in the shadowdale adventure and will of course be ignoring that bit of history (the battle was a great idea, the forces and alliances were just picked out of a hat i think)
A paladin turned blackguard that is the heir to the title of Scardale and current captain of the forces of Zhentil Keep is much more interesting than a corpse.
Even more so now that we know that Lashan was related to Elminster and so therefore is Scyllua. I reckon he would have a secret hand in trying to return her to the forces of good. What better way than to have her attack her birthplace and begin butchering her childhood friends to prick her conscience and respark her ideals for justice and protecting the weak.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2014 : 15:04:17
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Found a list of Imperceptors of Bane in the adventure booklet for the Ruins of Zhentil's Keep.
It poses some interesting questions.
quote: A. Stallac Benadi First Imperceptor of Bane, 735-844 DR First and greatest follower of Bane, invested with the title of Imperceptor by the avatar of the Lord of Strife himself. Seventh in Faerūn to receive the greatest gift of Bane. B. Tomar of Bane Second Imperceptor of Bane, 801-877 DR Most ruthless of all Imperceptors, Tomars greatest achievement was the introduction of a deadly plague into the Western Heartlands, causing the deaths of thousands. Eighth in Faerūn to receive the greatest gift of Bane. C. Harr Santolic Third Imperceptor of Bane, 848-966 DR Following in the footstep of his predecessors, Harr Santolic is attributed with the rise in the church of Bane in the Western Heartlands. D. Wedic B#146;donder Fourth Imperceptor of Bane, 901-1010 DR A savage Imperceptor, who brought the worship of the Lord of Strife to full blossom within the walls of Zhentil Keep. Last in Faerūn to receive the greatest gifi of Bane. E. Forja B#146;donder Fifth High Imperceptor of Bane, 988-1076 DR The only female to be named High Imperceptorin her fathers footsteps and the most beautiful of all Banites to walk the face of Faerūn. Renowned for the vast number of Harpers who died at her hands. F. Strife Sixth High Imperceptor of Bane, 1055-1141 DR Raised from birth by his predecessor to succeed her us Imperceptor, Strife brought quarreling factions of the church together and spread the word of Bane further than any other mortal upon the face of Faerūn. Died at the hands of treacherous Harpers. G. Brist of Bane Seventh High Imperceptor of Bane, 1120-1224 DR Youngest to possess the mantle of Imperceptor, Brist begun the war against the jealous gods of Faerūn, who sought to banish Banites everywhere. Died at the hands of a chic of Lathander. H. Szchulan Darkoon Eighth High Imperceptor of Bane, 1207-
So we have the first Imperceptor of Bane, Stallac Benadi, seventh to receive the greatest gift of Bane.
First: what is the greatest gift of Bane. I assume this is a reference to him becoming a Banelich. According tot he writeup of the Banelich these were created by a foul ritual revealed by Bane to certain of his faithful. However after 1010 DR he became disatisfied with the Baneliches and so chose not to reveal the ritual to anyone else.
So if Stallac was the seventh banelich and Wedic Bdonder was the last (Tomar being the eighth). Either Bane created 27 Baneliches between 877 and 1010 DR. Or this ritual of Bane was discovered by means other than it being revealed by Bane himself.
Second: Stellac was Imperceptor of Bane, i.e. high priest of the church of Bane. However Mulmaster did not exist until 934 DR and Zhentil Keep in any form until 747 DR. So what church is Stellac the Imperceptor of. The only thing of relevance i found that happened in 735 DR is that Iyachtu Xvim's reign in Westgate comes to an end. We know that Iyachtu Xvim is the son of Bane so maybe there was a church of Bane in Westgate and sometime after 735 DR he dies and Stellac succeeds him.
Third: Forja Bdonder in 1010 DR becomes the High Imperceptor of Bane, all other Imperceptors before her were just Imperceptors. So why the change in title. I have seen suggestions that there were separate churches of Bane (i.e. orthodox and non orthodox) one of which is possibly the Black Lord's Cloak in Threskel. Since the schism between Fzoul and the orthodox Banites doesnt occur until 1276 DR i propose that at some point around 988 DR the temple in Threskel is either created and the Imperceptor becomes High Imperceptor to show her rulership over the grand temples of Bane.
Or in 1010 DR some type of schism occurs between Mulmaster and Threskel which results in her declaring herself High Imperceptor as a show of power to all.
One possible plot link is in 929 DR Chessenta seceded from Unther and became independent. Could it be that the church of Bane was involved in that if indeed a church of Bane became prominent in Mourktar in Threskel in 1010 DR. There must be a reason for the largest temple to Bane being placed in Mourktar. It is likely that Unther's armies would have marched along the coast past Mourktar to get to the rest of Chessenta so the majority of fighting may have taken place in what is now Threskel. Bane is the god of strife and causing uprising and rebellions is going to add to his power so helping the secession of Chessenta is a something he might have a hand in. Also the church their is called the Black Lord's Cloak, probably after an artefact of Bane's; his actually cloak perhaps. What if Bane manifested in Mourktar during the rebellion of Chessenta and aided them in breaking away from Unther. He left behind a cloak and that was the impetus for the creation of the largest temple to Bane in Faerun.
That would explain the title change in 1010 DR (some temples can take many many years to be built).
Also Strife brought quarelling factions of the church so i am thinking that around 929 Bane's church played a role in the rebellion of Chessenta. A grand church was built and Forja was declared High Imperceptor of the grand churches (because Mourktar has its own Imperceptor). Its more than likely that the church in Mourktar disagreed with being ruled from Mulmaster and so has chafed against its decrees for centuries. Strife the sixth High Imperceptor managed to get the Black Lords Altar and Black Lords Cloak churches working together to spread the word of Bane further than ever before. But as is inevitable the Black Lords Cloak went back to its old ways of seeking to undermine the High Imperceptor's power until in modern times it is essentially its own church.
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 15 Jan 2014 15:40:50 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2014 : 17:06:59
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If you read the rest of the adventure book, you'll note that Stallac is Imperceptor of his own church located beneath Zhentil Keep. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2014 : 19:23:22
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Well him being Imperceptor of only his own church wouldn't tally with the rest of the lore.
He was the first priest of Bane to achieve the level of power he achieved and for this he was personally given the title Imperceptor by an avatar of Bane (according to the epitaph). He was then sent in 844 to Zhentil Keep where he was tasked with creating a vast underground empire dedicated to Bane. And as a reward he was transformed into a Banelich
So if he were only the Imperceptor of his own little underground temple then why is there a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, up to 8th Imperceptor listed; they are not Imperceptors of his little Temple, we know that the 8th is in fact the High Imperceptor of Bane residing in Mulmaster and leader of the orthodox church of Bane.
Upon becoming a Banelich the Imperceptor loses his title and a new Imperceptor is chosen (according to the blurb on the Baneliches and other bits of info in the book) so that would mean he established his underground church in 844 then became a Imperceptor for a few moments before becoming a Banelich and handing his title to someone else.
Imperceptor we already know is a title of the church of Bane that is granted to 12th level priests. I reckon that Stellac was the first priest of Bane to achieve 12th level and was rewarded by an avatar of Bane himself and made the head of the church of Bane (i.e. ruler of all temples to Bane).
Where he was a priest before he became Imperceptor I don't know, I merely suggested Westgate because its a nasty place full of intrigue and it had Xvim rule it for a time so it seems a good place for a temple to Bane.
Looking at the epitaphs for the other Imperceptors it seems that the Western Heartlands had quite a few shrines and maybe the odd temple to Bane, but at 844 DR Stellac retired from his post as Imperceptor and went to Zhentil Keep's catacombs where he began creating his underground empire and either immediately became a Banelich or was made a Banelich sometime later. The actual details of Stellac are somewhat contradictory saying that he spent 160 years building his empire before becoming a lich but that he fought off several other liches from Zhentil Keep (the night Plagues) which would mean he was a lich around 882 DR.
But either way Stellac was the first head of the church of Bane. Maybe up to that point Bane's church was just a group of unorganised churches with no unifying ethos or hierarchy.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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