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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 12:21:46
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Hellow fellow scribes...
I was thinking what the general opinion is on class dips when playing. Does it make any role-playing sense to be 1 fighter, 1 wizard 1 rogue? I personally dont like it, and I think often the class dips are taken from a power gaming perspective and not from an role-playing perspective.
Am I looking to conservatively on this?
Comment please!
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 12:32:57
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Depends on how you take them. If you do it multiclass-way, I'd look suspiciously on that, but it can be RPed.
But, if it is done in dual-class style, as in never returning to these professions after some years of these practices and seeing them as failure, it can be nice story hook. |
You can hear many tales from many mouths. The most difficult is to know which of them are not lies. - Sill Alias
"May your harp be unstrung, your dreams die and all your songs be unsung." - curse of the harper, The Code of the Harpers 2 ed.
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 14:59:00
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Never been a fan of all the builds you see that dip into classes just for a cool ability. I do think that a player should adapt as they adventure and experience new things. If this leads to a roleplaying opportunity to learn something new then, imho, that's fantastic!
I really don't like it when you see a high level character that has been perfectly built - a class here, another class there, all to get the optimum everything - With no redundant or flavour feats/abilities - Everything is built for moar powah!
I think that these types of characters are somewhat flawed, life often takes unexpected twists and turns, people find new interests, and occasionally pursue them.
It's still a valid playstyle - People should do whatever they enjoy - It's just not my cup of coffee (I don't like tea).
If it works with your players and group do whatever you enjoy. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 19:24:41
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I've found that class dipping is only worthwhile in one of two situations.
1) As a means to meet the prerequisites for a Prestige Class.
2) In campaigns that are rife with threats that require a high save of one particular type. The vast majority of classes begin with a +2 bonus to a save. Sometimes it's better to dip into a class that does that instead of wasting feat selections on Iron Will or something. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4694 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 20:18:31
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Well Fighter/Wizard/Rouge does not strike be as a good class build, there certainly can be justification for such. Most farm people would tend to start out as a farmer and guarding or protecting certainly can make sense to learn. As the life goes on learning how to sneak and advantage of magic clearly can be observed to have some value. Armour can make it hard to scout in hostile lands. So learning silent movement clearly has some value. By third level it clearly is likely the PC would learn no matter how good one is at the two above the spells that can be cast certainly against them clearly might be useful to be able to cast back.
There of course is the game rules that effect feats and skills one can have as class as oposed to cross crafting. There always clearly would be some consideration to that based on dice rolls in any event.
As hashimashadoo mentions, sometimes to seek a goal of a PrC muticlass is required or would take many levels more to meet.
Oh that note, at least 3rd Edition I had considered that the best way to meet requirements for a Sword Dancer the best build is Bard 2 levels, Fighter 2 levels and Cleric 3 levels
This though strikes me as a option many would consider because music is important, fighting is required when almost every thing else wants to kill you and to protect and promote the faith clearly casting spells granted by the Goddess clearly useful. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12091 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2013 : 21:23:42
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| I find multi-classing to make perfect sense in some situations. Sure, most people do it to get some kind of power that they want... but they also give up stuff in order to get it. For instance, a wizard that wants to be a bounty hunter just may want a level of ranger just to be able to track. They give up a level of spellcasting for it, but it may also mean they're better at finding their quarry without having to use numerous spells. They may have to use magic items to enhance their skill. Similarly, you mention a fighter/wizard/rogue. Its not an optimal build, but if you were building a combat oriented/low armor type of mage... this might be the way to go. Later you may go eldritch knight or maybe arcane trickster (or a mix of both). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1883 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 00:54:56
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I really don't like the multicassing rules from 3e that much. My reason for this is that a multiclassed character is oftimes not the equal of a dedicated character. For instance, in 3e, a Fighter 10/Wizard 10 is a 20th-level character, but he's not the equal of a dedicated Wizard 20 (if played properly, the Wiz20 should win in MOST cases).
As to the OP, dipping is sometimes necessary and, IMO, more realistic as I see most adventurers developing a variety of skills and abilities as they are forced to adapt to a variety of situations. That said, I still don't like the fact that a dip raises the character level (I discarded this notion in my homebrew, opting for an approach similar to 1e/2e). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4470 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 04:22:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Hellow fellow scribes...
I was thinking what the general opinion is on class dips when playing. Does it make any role-playing sense to be 1 fighter, 1 wizard 1 rogue? I personally dont like it, and I think often the class dips are taken from a power gaming perspective and not from an role-playing perspective.
Am I looking to conservatively on this?
Comment please!
In my experience its relatively easy to roleplay any class combination. The hard part is justifying the class being multiclassed into. For example, a Fighter PC who takes a level of Wizard with no in-game reason as to how or where this knowledge or capability comes from is hard to explain even though the rules clearly allow it.
So when playing 3e it's a main reason why I create builds for my characters for what levels and feats they're going to take. If I know that in the next level Im going to multiclass Wizard, I will role-play that my character has a desire to learn magic. I might research spells and arcane writings from books or during downtime "train" with the groups wizard or sorcerer. That way when the time is right to level up and multiclass, theres an in-story justification for it.
I do agree, however, that when I see people "dipping" levels its mostly from a mechanical perspective. A Fighter grabs a level of Cleric for the Turn Undead and Divine feats, the ability to use CLW wands, and for domain features. Same goes with a level or two of Barbarian or the customary 4 level dip in Paladin. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12091 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 10:50:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I really don't like the multicassing rules from 3e that much. My reason for this is that a multiclassed character is oftimes not the equal of a dedicated character. For instance, in 3e, a Fighter 10/Wizard 10 is a 20th-level character, but he's not the equal of a dedicated Wizard 20 (if played properly, the Wiz20 should win in MOST cases).
This isn't a fair comparison, because no person would every build a wiz 20/ ftr 20 with the prestige classes that are out there in 3.5. Even under 3.0 there were options like the spellsword available. In 3.5, This character you've designed could easily go into eldritch knight and spellsword and be only a few levels behind in spellcasting and a swordsman on par with a rogue for BAB while wearing armor. The point of the prestige classes like this was that they realized that certain builds wouldn't make sense, so they threw in the options that you could follow to make these things.
Essentially, there could be some folk who do multi-class willy nilly as you present. This would represent people who studied haphazardly or simply gave themselves what life gave them. For instance, there might be the wizard who spends the first 16 levels of his life before realizing that he wants to be a priest of mystra. However, like most of us... our path in life is chosen early and we make the best of what we've learned. Few actually go back to school in their mid-40's and 50's and learn an entirely new trade (they may go back to school to enhance skills they've already learned... but to say go from computer science to medicine or chemistry is rare), but when they're young some do get a double degree. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2013 : 13:09:59
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Due to the restrictions of the class system in certain editions, I often see players class dip for access to skills/pros. Also, the sword wielding wizard(fighter/wizard) is a pretty standard fantasy archetype. In order to reproduce that kind of feel it can be necessary to multi-class. Also, Bladesingers and later Arcane Archers required a multi-class characters.
The current multi-class rules for Next do allow for some cheesy multi-class builds with one lvl dips. Hopefully that issue will be cleaned up before release. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Class dipping...
