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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Nov 2013 : 22:17:42
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Graz'zt being a devil is something 4e created, but I like it, because it fixes some other snafus I was running into (that tieflings are demon-born and Cambions are devil-born). Of course, some 4e/5e lore screws that up as well (unless Asmodeus is also a demon LOL).
I think 'demon' and 'devil' are just titles, based-upon affiliations. The races of Tanarri and Batezu are normally interchangeable with them, but not always (because not all devils are Batezu, just as not all demons are Tanar'ri). That helps smooth-over quite a bit of problems (especially where the 4e lore is concerned).
'Mal' is prefix alluding to evil - I suppose I could twist things around and say thats been the case since Malkizid (unless his name was originally Kizid, which is another possibility). I also say the suffix 'zt means something akin to 'brilliant betrayer' (a concept only a fiend could come up with).
I like a LOT of what both you guys postulated, but I have to take it all and run it through the 'meat-grinder' of my own lore. For instance, MY elves are all natural shape-changers; they bind their 'spirit' (something different then their soul, BTW) with a totem animal, and then they can take its form. Most choose wolf. However, during the early elf wars (The Crown Wars on Toril) many decided to bind with horses, and the first Chevall were created. From those, the centaur race arose. Thats from my entirely homebrew setting.
Also, in my setting, lycanthropy is the 'curse' derived from some human raping a (Lythari) elf, and the offspring of that union became the first Werewolves. If I use Wolfweres, I would probably just say they were werewolf/gnoll hybrids. As for the gnolls themselves, I say are the descendents of the Hutaakans (Mystara). The original 'gnoll race' came from some other world entirely, and when their interplanetary empire collapsed, colonies were left on dozens of worlds (including FR's Urgnarash and OD&D's Hutaakans - at the time of Urgnarash, the 'gnolls' weren't really gnolls at all. This helps explain some weirdness concerning 'gnoll mummies' we have in FR lore).
Its actually all a bit more complicated then that - I also tie some of that to Vampirism (and the major plot-element of my homebrew setting). On my world, 'Shades' are really high Elves that have found a way of sacrificing part of their life-force for power (the 'half dead'). When some humans got a hold of the ritual, it didn't turn out so well (thus, the first vamps were created).
I once postulated a family tree for the Fey gods and Seldarine (and anti-Seldarine) - they are all related, and also have members in several other pantheons (the most notable being the Celtic and Norse). I have it where Mielikki is actually an ancient elven (archfey) deity, and also goes by the name 'Ki' (from the Sumerian pantheon). You can find Ki's write-up in the original DD. I'm looking at that pic of her now - it seems she has a thing for summoning lions and tigers... a connection to Nobanion (or Baast) perhaps?
Anyhow, I forget where I put Cegliune - I think I had her as yet-another sister of Titania and Aurilana (Auril, now known to us to be The Queen of Air & darkness). I think I may have also made Pale Night the mother of Graz'zt and Lolth (fitting, no?) Twins were the most common form of birth amongst the Sidhe (Fey), with single births considered a bad omen and triplets being a blessing. Thus, I have many of the Fey gods connected this way (for instance, Gruumsh and Corellon are paternal twins and children of Titania, with different fathers - Corellon's was Frey of the Liosalfar and Grummsh's was Malkith of the Dokalfar). Nearly all fey births were twins back then (there is something to that - two halves of one whole - I don't have it all worked out).
You see, the problem is that we think of all these beings in the 'here and now', when all of these beings had very different agendas, allies, and enemies back before the (first) godwar. The war itself wasn't even so much about 'good vs evil', as it was about 'chaos vs order' (which is why we see fiends fighting fiends, and celestials fighting celestials). Think of ALL outsiders as one great, big extended, dysfunctional family. Most of the differences we perceive between all of them is our own preconceptions. The division in the heavens (and hells) is artificial, and didn't always exist.
The first deities (ascended mortals) came from the Creator Races, so the eldest deities should all be from the Fey, Sauroid, Trachi, Aeriee, and Mankin pantheons. And BTW, I think the 'mankind' creator race was quite bit different then the current species of 'human'. People forget to mix-in time and evolution. Picture 'bigger', and what have you got? 
I think all the original pantheons probably shared gods as well. For instance, Seth may have originated with the Sarrukh, but all the Creators probably had him in some form (until Set showed up and took his stuff). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Nov 2013 22:28:46 |
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Narathmault
