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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 09:52:23
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I like to mess with my players and throw heretics of various faiths at them just to mix things up and see what happens.
There are a bunch of canon heresies that i know of (in parenthesis a quick banalization of the heretic dogma):
- Risen Sun (Lathander is just Amaunator in disguise);
- Threepartite Sun [i think, unsure about the "official" name of this one] (Lathander, Amaunator and Myrkul/Jergal/whoever are the three facets of the same sun uber-entity);
- Dark Moon (Shar and Selune are one and the same);
- Bitch Coin (Waukeen had to give all her divinity to Graz'zt so he's the real god now, she's just a puppet);
- Threefold God (Helm, Torm and Tyr are one and the same);
Then there are some that are quick to make up on the spot, saying that gods with same/similar portfolios/interests are realy the same (like Sune-Hanali Celanil or Selune-Sehanine Moonbow), but i'm not interested in these, too obvious.
Is there any other canon heresy i missed?
Is there any interesting relationship/dealing between gods of the same/various pantheons that may give rise to true heresies or unique/weird priestly/knightly orders?
For example, i'm thinking of a joint Sune-Selune priestly order that emphasizes the mother-daughter relationship, venerates them like some sort of holy family and works for woman rights/betterment in society, takes in orphans and cares for widows, poor womans, lone/abandoned womans, abused womans and tutors upper class families guiding them in the establishment of sane mother-daughter relationships with mutual respect and respect for their roles inside the family. That's just the basics, looking for any tip/recommendation about how to make it more unique and i think it falls in the unique priestly orders category, surely it's not an heresy.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 10:43:00
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Tons of potential heresies out there. Some of the ones I've thought of are the Broken Bone Heresy (a cult of Ilmater where suffering must be 'shared' - and priests inflict pain on others), the Eternal Death Heresy (a cult of Kelemvor where all who die must be raised as undead - thought to be controlled by a demi-lich or even the Twisted Rune) and the Bloodoak Heresy (a cult of Silvanus where druids conduct human sacrifice to give life to sentient plant variants, rumoured to include a type of vampiric treant).
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 15:44:15
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In my novel SHADOWBANE, one of the villains worships both Tymora and Beshaba, seeing them as . . . wait for it . . . two sides of the same coin.
Though I guess we could just call that worshipping Tyche. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2477 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 18:53:56
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IIRC there was something somewhere about late attempts to worship Tyche after the split, a temple was in Undermountain or some other less than accessible location.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Tons of potential heresies out there. Some of the ones I've thought of are the Broken Bone Heresy (a cult of Ilmater where suffering must be 'shared'
Uh, already there? Power of Faerûn has details on 4 "notable" heresies: Cult of Shared Suffering (Ilmater), Dark Moon Heresy (Selûne + Shar), Risen Sun Heresy (Lathander), Three-Faced Sun Heresy (Amaunator + Jergal + Lathander + Myrkul clusterfluffle). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 19:12:31
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@ George Krashos: Great ones!
@ Eric Scott de Bie: Ouch! I can't believe i left that out of my list in the original post!
I'm pondering a Sharessan heresy that's stuck at her pre-ToT affiliation to Shar but there's already Loviatar that caters to that crowd.
Another one i'm thinking is somewhere between a beast cult, a bunch of Moander worshippers and a branch of Finder's church gone completely bonkers that kidnaps performers to "improve" them in very painful ways ("I always thought your beautiful songs would sound better with a destrachan use of the harmonics" or "Think at the marvelous coreographies you can do now that you have pseudopods!") and does similar "improvements" to paintings, statues and buildings weaving in spell traps and harmful illusion to "give life to the masterpieces". |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 03:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
IIRC there was something somewhere about late attempts to worship Tyche after the split, a temple was in Undermountain or some other less than accessible location.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Tons of potential heresies out there. Some of the ones I've thought of are the Broken Bone Heresy (a cult of Ilmater where suffering must be 'shared'
Uh, already there? Power of Faerûn has details on 4 "notable" heresies: Cult of Shared Suffering (Ilmater), Dark Moon Heresy (Selûne + Shar), Risen Sun Heresy (Lathander), Three-Faced Sun Heresy (Amaunator + Jergal + Lathander + Myrkul clusterfluffle).
I always thought that I don't have an original bone in my body!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12024 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 13:31:17
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The Cult of Entropy actually had a heretical sect within Bezantur. From Spellbound:
"Traditionally, Entropy#146;s priests hate mages and magic in general, but in Thay they must modify this view somewhat. The high priest of Entropy is unknown but is seen sometimes wearing black robes and a dark veil with only his eyes showing. He speaks loudly against magic but excludes the Red Wizards in his sermons, claiming that their use of sorcery actually promotes the cause of Entropy. " |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2477 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 17:28:01
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Well, it's hard to make up truly original stuff ever.
But seriously, "Bloodoak Heresy" IMO has good potential. Maybe with a little more chthonical name, though.
For extra background ideas and mechanics, you may want to look at The Trail of Tears by Eric L. Boyd - "A River of Blood" part and Bloodstained template.
"A Tale From The Deep Woods" by Bal-Sagoth would do for inspiration music  - My life bleeds forth
unto the earth
To slake your roots, great old king...
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Go get some popcorn
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-general/threads/1115741
"6 years ago". I'm afraid that popcorn got rather moldy.
But yeah. If it's offhandedly mentioned that Pelor grants both [good] and [evil] spell, this means that either
1) He have a major heresy running. Or...
2) Is actually Neutral, perhaps with Lawful and/or Good tendencies - not unlike Amaunator. That the followers are mostly NG - why not? Kossuth got separate Evil (Black Flame) and Good (Order of Phoenix) churches. It's unusual that a deity resides on a plane not exactly fitting the alignment, but not a big deal, especially if one got allies there. Olympian gods who happen to be explicitly Lawful live with the rest of the family, and LE Ilsensine got the realm on Outlands - and no one runs in circles screaming Ragnarok.
3) Or... GH continuity editor either was bound and gagged or borrowed whatever headgear FR continuity editor used to wear whenever Lisa Smedman submitted yet another lore-mincing book. I suspect pants. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Ateth Istarlin
Seeker
United Kingdom
80 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 11:57:53
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| I think that there is one in Waterdeep called "The Blue Moon" heresy - something about Mystra and Selune being the same deity. |
The more I read about 4FR, the more depressed I am.
Politician - An elected official who tries to be all things to all people, while always looking out for his/her own interests first. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 12:31:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ateth Istarlin
I think that there is one in Waterdeep called "The Blue Moon" heresy - something about Mystra and Selune being the same deity.
without a dream in her heart of a love of her own? :P |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12024 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 12:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Tons of potential heresies out there. Some of the ones I've thought of are the Broken Bone Heresy (a cult of Ilmater where suffering must be 'shared' - and priests inflict pain on others), the Eternal Death Heresy (a cult of Kelemvor where all who die must be raised as undead - thought to be controlled by a demi-lich or even the Twisted Rune) and the Bloodoak Heresy (a cult of Silvanus where druids conduct human sacrifice to give life to sentient plant variants, rumoured to include a type of vampiric treant).
-- George Krashos
Broken Bone Heresy = too much like Loviatar
The Bloodoak Heresy however.... very interesting if run by say Volodni and including other intelligent plants such as treants or fey involved with plants (like dryads).
Just an interesting note on the history of the volodni that dovetails with this. Basically, they were Nar refugees that fled into the great forests of the ancient empires. They were confronted by a power of the old wood who made them foreswear their demon summoning ways and take the forest's blood for their own. They agreed and were changed into Volodni, the pine folk. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12024 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2013 : 13:07:44
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Hmmm, just another note.... there was an old Yuir "deity" in the area that was absorbed by Rillifane Rallathil that might fit this heresy better than Silvanus. Below from 2nd ed. Demi-human Deities. This makes me think in addition to the volodni, treants, and dryads following this heresy.... there may be some elves in the Yuirwood who look at humans and go "he'd be better as a tree"... or look at orcs, gnolls, turncoat centaurs, etc... in Thay for similar treatment.
Relkath of the Infinite Branches, also known as Many-Limbed, Many-Branched, and the Old Man of the Yuirwood, became aspects of the Leaflord. Relkath easily merged with and slowly reinvigorated a primitive facet of the Leaflord's nature that had been slowly overshadowed over the ages by the increasingly tamed way of life of the Fair Folk, even among the Sy-Tel'Quessir. As a result of this subtle change of heart, in the centuries since absorbing Relkath, Rillifane's primordial spirit has returned to the fore to great effect. Concurrently, the Sy-Tel'Quessir and Cha'Tel'Quessir (half-elves of the Yuirwood) have rediscovered the ways of their most primitive ancestors and reforged their tribal cultures, eschewing the formation of successors to the great green elven civilizations
such as Illefarn, Thearnytaar, Eiellur, and Syorpiir. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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xaviera
Learned Scribe
Canada
149 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 15:48:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
I'm pondering a Sharessan heresy that's stuck at her pre-ToT affiliation to Shar but there's already Loviatar that caters to that crowd.
By analogy with the Cainite/Carpocratian heresies, one could postulate a Sharessan heresy which holds that one must experience as many unpleasant sensations as possible to fully appreciate the value of the Goddess' gift. After all, it's easy to enjoy good things but it proves one's devotion to deliberately subject oneself to pain. In addition (or alternatively), by infringing on Loviatar's domain the Sharessin tests her faith, and the farther one goes without falling the more faithful one is. Another heresy with Loviataran or Sharran tinges might be to deliberately seek out a negative emotion/experience (loss, misery, despair, death) for each positive one (happiness, pleasure, etc.).
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Writings on Sharess: Thoughts & Prayers by Xaviera ~ High Priestess of Sharess |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2013 : 20:04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by xaviera
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
I'm pondering a Sharessan heresy that's stuck at her pre-ToT affiliation to Shar but there's already Loviatar that caters to that crowd.
By analogy with the Cainite/Carpocratian heresies, one could postulate a Sharessan heresy which holds that one must experience as many unpleasant sensations as possible to fully appreciate the value of the Goddess' gift. After all, it's easy to enjoy good things but it proves one's devotion to deliberately subject oneself to pain. In addition (or alternatively), by infringing on Loviatar's domain the Sharessin tests her faith, and the farther one goes without falling the more faithful one is. Another heresy with Loviataran or Sharran tinges might be to deliberately seek out a negative emotion/experience (loss, misery, despair, death) for each positive one (happiness, pleasure, etc.).
Great suggestion!
On a partially related note, i'm now enjoying reading your scroll of Sharessin writings, outstanding work! |
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Heresies
