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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 08:13:34
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So... I't trying (for my own joy) to create/build Larloch as a NPC following (most) of the rules of 3.5 ed D&D. I have giving a lot more feats than what is appropriate by the rules, but hey he the überlich. Also I have him as a level 47. 22 wizard, 3 human paragon, 7 archmage, 10 arcane lord, 5 netherese arcanist. Now... the big question which have been bothering me for some days is: What spells would he have prepared? Both for evereday (un)life, and for battle? I don need a complete list, but any ideas or indeed hard facts are much welcome.
Also if you guys know of any interesting items, that might be personal or semi-personal to him, that would be great as well. Cause right now, I just have him pilled with "standard" epic items.
Again I want to point out, that this is just for my own enjoyment, and for that reason, the answer "what ever you like" is not quite what im looking for at this point in time.
Thanks for all your feedback!
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 13:28:04
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| Did you take look on his official write up in Lords of Darkness for some inspiration? |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 23:07:43
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| I have, and it has not really helped a lot... I still feel I have a hard time finding spells that would fit his status as über mage and his genious! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 01:53:38
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If you're going to give him 7 levels of archmage and 10 levels of arcane lord, I'd recommend swapping out some levels of wizard for ultimate magus. If he was a Netherese, I see no reason that he needs to stay a strictly wizard character. He could take levels in one of sorcerer, warmage, dread necromancer, etc... and all would make sense. Then the extra spellcasting levels you get from your epic levels could be spent raising up this second class so that he's got the casting ability of a 20th lvl caster in said class. It would also make sense in some respects, as he had to "remake" himself after magic changed, and nothing says he wouldn't have favored trying to get back to a class that didn't have to memorize and forget its spells. Personally, I'd be torn between dread necro and sorcerer... both would seem to fit. This would work well with the fact that the archmage class is using up all kinds of spell slots. If you have 2 classes to choose from, you don't miss the spell slots as much.
Also, given that one of the abilities of the arcane lord is recognize spell, I'd definitely recommend the archmage ability of mastery of counterspelling that turns spells back upon their caster if counterspelled. I'd also grab the feats improved counterspell and reactive counterspell (from PGtF). Also, IF you want to push the counterspelling even further, the duelward spell from the spell compendium would be a good crafted contingent spell to have on him (it would enable him to use an immediate action to counterspell a single spell, to enable him to counterspell 2 spells in the same round at the start of a fight.. one via duelward... another via reactive counterspell). You could also have the battlemagic perception spell from Heroes of Battle that lets you counterspell a single spell as a free action and lasts 10 min/lvl (extending it could make this last for many hours, such that he may carry this one and cast it in prep for any dangerous situation or even just cast it on himself 2 or 3 times a day as a preventative measure). Then there's always the spell turning spell. You could also do some shenanigans that I wouldn't necessarily recommend with the divine defiance feat and the alternate spell source feat for counterspelling, but I mention it just to be complete. Still, this makes Larloch the kind of lich that we've pictured (someone casts a spell at him, he waves his hand, and the spell turns back on the caster.. and he can do this several times... all while ordering his liches to fire upon the party).
If you did go this path, I'd recommend a ring of wizardry to double the number of spells in each class. I could easily see him with a specialized ring of wizardry that doubles 3rd, 4th, and even 5th lvl spells. This gives him plenty of spells with which to counter and have basic blast spells to use.
For your levels of archmage, I can see him having: arcane reach, mastery of counterspelling, mastery of elements, mastery of shaping, and maybe arcane fire (though giving up a 9th lvl spell slot for it doesn't seem worth it)... the other abilities don't scream Larloch to me. Why not just go 4 lvls and then spend the 3 other levels elsewhere (or drop them entirely and make him 3 levels less)?
I've not looked at your feat requirements for your build. You may be kind of tight, what with Netheril arcanist requiring improved metamagic, improved spellcasting and Arcane Lord requiring 5 metamagic feats, plus archmage requiring spell focus twice and skill focus (spellcraft). Still, hopefully this gives you some ideas. I imagine the wiz 22 and human paragon 3 was to get enough feats to do what you want. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 02:04:40
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| Oh, and also, I see Larloch as definitely spellstitching himself (template) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 07:28:49
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Thanks for all the tips. As for feats, I have given him more feats than what a "normal" level 47 would have. This breaks a little with the idea about building him using the rules, but I have felt it impossible to do without tweeking adding a bunch of feats that I fealt fit his charactere.
The list of feats I have giving him is as follows: ) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Feats: (13/8), Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster
Bonus Wizard Feats: (4) Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell.
Bonus Arcane Lord Feats: (2) Twin Spell,
Epic Feats: (23/10) Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell Twin Spell, Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 10:48:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Thanks for all the tips. As for feats, I have given him more feats than what a "normal" level 47 would have. This breaks a little with the idea about building him using the rules, but I have felt it impossible to do without tweeking adding a bunch of feats that I fealt fit his charactere.
The list of feats I have giving him is as follows: ) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Feats: (13/8), Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster
Bonus Wizard Feats: (4) Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell.
Bonus Arcane Lord Feats: (2) Twin Spell,
Epic Feats: (23/10) Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell Twin Spell, Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
One of the things jumping out at me... not a single item creation feat. Speaking of which, he should have gotten at least scribe scroll for free. I'd recommend against the iron will, lightning reflexes, and great fortitude and put in some item creation feats (and epic item creation feats). Get rid of the automatic feats (yeah, they're nice, but really do they make him amazing). Don't try to make him powerful via feat. Make him powerful via the spells he uses (so for instance, the automatic quicken and multispell... do this via planning his spellcasting). Make him powerful via the magic items he used his feats for. Also, get extend spell in their somewhere (people disregard its utility because at low levels its fairly useless, but at high levels... spells that might last all day last 2... thus freeing a slot... or spells that they'd have to cast twice a day could be cast once).
Also, I guess that I just assumed being a Netherese that you would have chosen the craft contingent spell and spell mantle feats. Personally, my version of Larloch would use some homebrew prestige classes that I've presented here in the past, because he definitely seems the "triggered spell" type. Specifically, they are the "mantle bearer" and "arcane transformist" and "mystic disperser". Speaking of which, I definitely need to touch up and reprint all of them with the odds and ends tweaks I've thought about over the years. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 14:41:40
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Thanks for all the tips. As for feats, I have given him more feats than what a "normal" level 47 would have. This breaks a little with the idea about building him using the rules, but I have felt it impossible to do without tweeking adding a bunch of feats that I fealt fit his charactere.
The list of feats I have giving him is as follows: ) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Feats: (13/8), Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster
Bonus Wizard Feats: (4) Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell.
Bonus Arcane Lord Feats: (2) Twin Spell,
Epic Feats: (23/10) Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
) Spellcasting Prodigy, Arcane Manipulation, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Great Fortitude
Improved Initiative, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation) Combat Reflexes, Improved Counterspell, Reactive Counterspell, Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Insightful Caster, Practiced Spellcaster Still Spell, Silent Spell, Maximize Spell, Quicken Spell Twin Spell, Epic Counterspell, Automatic Quicken x3, Multi Spellx3, Epic Spell Focus (Necromancy, Transmutation), Automatic Silent Spell x3, Automatic Still Spell x3, Intensify Spell, Epic Spellcasting, Improved Spell Capacity x4, Great Intelligence, Improved Meta-magic
One of the things jumping out at me... not a single item creation feat. Speaking of which, he should have gotten at least scribe scroll for free. I'd recommend against the iron will, lightning reflexes, and great fortitude and put in some item creation feats (and epic item creation feats). Get rid of the automatic feats (yeah, they're nice, but really do they make him amazing). Don't try to make him powerful via feat. Make him powerful via the spells he uses (so for instance, the automatic quicken and multispell... do this via planning his spellcasting). Make him powerful via the magic items he used his feats for. Also, get extend spell in their somewhere (people disregard its utility because at low levels its fairly useless, but at high levels... spells that might last all day last 2... thus freeing a slot... or spells that they'd have to cast twice a day could be cast once).
Also, I guess that I just assumed being a Netherese that you would have chosen the craft contingent spell and spell mantle feats. Personally, my version of Larloch would use some homebrew prestige classes that I've presented here in the past, because he definitely seems the "triggered spell" type. Specifically, they are the "mantle bearer" and "arcane transformist" and "mystic disperser". Speaking of which, I definitely need to touch up and reprint all of them with the odds and ends tweaks I've thought about over the years.
2 things...
1) I really do feel that he can carry the extra feats and that specifically the auto quicken feats fits him. Within reason I really believe that he needs all the help he can get from game mechanics since they really dont do him justice as is. And that is the reason for him having 3 times as many feats as a PC would have at his level.
Also, I'm not to keen on using too much homebrew with this guy. He has a couble of 3rd party feats and will eventually have some powerful homebrew spells, but beside that, I prefer to keen him core.
You point out that he lacks Item-creation featsa and you are right. I have forgotten them and will ad:Scribe Scroll, Craft Contingency Spell,Brew Potion, Forge Ring, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Staff, Attune Gem, Craft Wonderous Item, Craft Rod and he will receive the all as epic versions as well. I will also give him Craft True Artifact. He will also get Spell Mantle.
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A personal (Larloch) project
