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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 16:46:37
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From the epilogue of The Godborn [highlight mine]:
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"Yes, Most High. Shall we . . . continue the program with the Chosen?"
Telamont sighed, nodded. "Yes. Capture and hold what Chosen we can. Interrogate them all. Someone must know something. In any event I imagine their power will be of use to us when we see events more clearly."
"The gods themselves seem to be involved in affairs."
"Indeed, Hadrhune."
The Shadovar had not yet returned to Toril when the so-called Time of Troubles took place, when the gods themselves walked the earth and the entire divine order had been upset and reordered. Telamont feared similar changes afoot currently. He'd struggle to maintain the empire during such upheaval.
We've seen Mask and Shar (though not quite in person) walk Toril. Will other gods follow suit? Is the Sundering some sort of the Time of Troubles Part 2?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 13 Oct 2013 18:00:12
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 17:40:07
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| Probably...though I don't believe they will be quite so prevalent. Meaning they will likely walk quietly among mortals for a time. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sagechan
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 19:05:59
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The Shadowstorm contained a part of Shar needed to destroy the world, since she has been granting spells for the last 100 years I'd assume its NOT a full Avatar ala ToT. Mask's presence on Toril was dictated by the story an was only there very briefly as he ascended to wherever Gods go very shortly after becoming the new God.
I see the Sundering as a divine shake-up on the scale of ToT, though without the divine interaction with Mortals, beyond the explosion in Chosen. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3253 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 13:33:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
From the epilogue of The Godborn [highlight mine]:
[quote]
"The gods themselves seem to be involved in affairs."
"Indeed, Hadrhune."
The bigger implication here is that Hadrhune survived from the end of the Anauroch, Empire of Shade adventure, where it's pretty much implied that the adventure ends and is successful with Hadrhune's death in the final battle. Does this mean that High Prince Telamont brung Hadrhune back to life? Or did the outcome of Anauroch end favorably for the Shades? Interesting, because of the three adventures, Anauroch is the only one not mentioned in Grand History of the Realms. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 15:36:39
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Ashe, I believe I already asked Paul about that, and (for those who read his reply, correct me if I'm mistaken) I think he said he wasn't aware of Hadrhune's fate in the sourcebooks. I have no problem with it, really. Novels, in the first place, supersede sourcebooks canonwise. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 16:18:19
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| And here i have to voice my concern. An author, in a shared world should be aware of the history and the events happening and do research on the topics he is about to write about. Either the author did not bother or the editor at Wotc did a bad job. What ever may be the case, this shows that communication is not what it should be. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 16:23:40
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Before we head down that rocky road, let me ask Paul again, in case I'm misremembering. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 16:46:46
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Ahhh, but you misunderstand.
That's Hadrhune's cousin Hadrhune - its a popular family name.
quote:
Originally posted by sagechan
The Shadowstorm contained a part of Shar needed to destroy the world, since she has been granting spells for the last 100 years I'd assume its NOT a full Avatar ala ToT. Mask's presence on Toril was dictated by the story an was only there very briefly as he ascended to wherever Gods go very shortly after becoming the new God.
I see the Sundering as a divine shake-up on the scale of ToT, though without the divine interaction with Mortals, beyond the explosion in Chosen.
Interesting...
I think there will be a little bit of both - deities (and primordials AND arch-everything else, etc) who were 'in the heavens' at the time the (second?) Sundering takes place should be unaffected. Note I say 'Sundering', and not 'Spellplague', because I think the Sundering has been an on-going event since the Tablets of Fate were stolen (and Shar's Dark Prophesy begun).
Thus, the deities that may or may not be 'reborn' will be the ones 'walking the earth', as it were. It will be up to to them whether they succeed or not in reascending (meaning, it will be up to each individual DM to decide... clever gits). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Oct 2013 16:47:36 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 16:55:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sagechan
I see the Sundering as a divine shake-up on the scale of ToT, though without the divine interaction with Mortals, beyond the explosion in Chosen.
Their Chosen are essentially extensions of their being, like their avatars, but with lesser "presence." |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2013 : 04:33:41
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Chosen Concentration Camps? How much power do you need to be able to hold multiple gods chosen as captives ?
Don't worry Ma'am , we are with the CCC, we are here to put those pesky interlopers out of your way. |
Edited by - silverwolfer on 16 Oct 2013 04:34:30 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 02:37:35
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| I'd say the Sundering is the Pain-In-The-Arse step child of previous RSEs |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 10:12:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
And here i have to voice my concern. An author, in a shared world should be aware of the history and the events happening and do research on the topics he is about to write about. Either the author did not bother or the editor at Wotc did a bad job. What ever may be the case, this shows that communication is not what it should be.
Maybe he just got resurected.
Its pretty cheap for powerfull entities and although its bad storytelling to do it constantly its ok when it happens from time to time. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 11:17:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Novels, in the first place, supersede sourcebooks canonwise.
Depends on what you mean by "sourcebook."
It's my understanding that sourcebooks and novels don't supersede each other, but both supersede adventures, in certain circumstances.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
What ever may be the case, this shows that communication is not what it should be.
This is frustrating, I'm sure, but this also wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
I don't mind stuff like this, because often it's not as bad as one might think at first glance.
In this case it's worth noting that certain elements of adventures are variables, not absolutes.
Hadrhune's death isn't an absolute, because it's entirely possible for PCs to have driven him off and still completed the adventure.
The communication might not have been there, but it's also possible an editor saw the Hadrhune bit and let it pass because it didn't conflict with prior Realmslore. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 17 Oct 2013 12:20:03 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 18:51:12
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| I always assumed that big bad T.T. raised him, because of his importance to Shade and dependability. As powerful as Shade is, it would not last long in all its open wars without any ability to bring back those who die. I think they would have brought Melegaunt back as well, but he had some kind of spirit jar going on... still, time may tell on that score :) |
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Garen Thal
Master of Realmslore
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2013 : 19:40:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It's my understanding that sourcebooks and novels don't supersede each other, but both supersede adventures, in certain circumstances.
Not really "in certain circumstances." Pretty much always.
I'm fairly sure I've mentioned this elsewhere, but for edification, I'll repeat: material used to set up an adventure (the Zhentarim gathering forces in Shadowdale, let's say) is absolutely canon. But the moment the intercession of player characters occurs, all bets are off: the function of the adventure is to provide an entertaining play experience for individual groups, not to assume success and set canon for the setting.
This isn't to say that future products don't pick up on threads or make decisions based on past adventures--designers and authors use those touchstones all the time. It merely means that just because your PCs fight a baddie in an adventure, that that NPC will be assumed by the published setting to be dead from then on.
Now, with the current publishing initiatives, incorporating group play results into the Sundering, this may not be the case going forward. But it's certainly been the case up until now. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2013 : 19:10:13
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| IMO it's more like aventures/sourcebook later determining the canon outcome of the adventures. Thus whatever happened at a particular table, the canon realms assumes the PCs solved the adventure without killing Hadrhune. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 03:53:42
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| I'm not sure if it it will be like the ToT in which the gods are made to walk the mortal plane, but I could be wrong. Even Mask was acting through his followers. He himself didn't walk. Well, okay, he kind of did, considering he became Riven, but you get the idea--I hope lol |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 13:09:21
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LOL....
'Concentration Camps for Chosen'. Yeah... this setting is just getting so 'toned down'.
NOT.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 13:58:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I always assumed that big bad T.T. raised him, because of his importance to Shade and dependability. As powerful as Shade is, it would not last long in all its open wars without any ability to bring back those who die. I think they would have brought Melegaunt back as well, but he had some kind of spirit jar going on... still, time may tell on that score :)
They actually plan to take some power from Shade so that they would be just like any other villainous groups in the Realms, with a little upperhand perhaps. They already started with bringing down Sakkors and killing off two important princes. Probably, they would have Sembia completely independent from Shade . . . soon. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:44:54
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| Maybe I missed this but has anyone asked the basic question yet... what exactly is being sundered? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:57:56
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Maybe I missed this but has anyone asked the basic question yet... what exactly is being sundered?
They're going to split Abeir and Toril--again. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 01:05:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
From the epilogue of The Godborn [highlight mine]:
quote:
"Yes, Most High. Shall we . . . continue the program with the Chosen?"
Telamont sighed, nodded. "Yes. Capture and hold what Chosen we can. Interrogate them all. Someone must know something. In any event I imagine their power will be of use to us when we see events more clearly."
"The gods themselves seem to be involved in affairs."
"Indeed, Hadrhune."
The Shadovar had not yet returned to Toril when the so-called Time of Troubles took place, when the gods themselves walked the earth and the entire divine order had been upset and reordered. Telamont feared similar changes afoot currently. He'd struggle to maintain the empire during such upheaval.
We've seen Mask and Shar (though not quite in person) walk Toril. Will other gods follow suit? Is the Sundering some sort of the Time of Troubles Part 2?
Not sure, but the start of book 3, The adversary, has me wondering. It does seem to be a rather large RSE.
Edit: Urk, I just realized the same passage is in book 2, Godborn. I read it on my kindle first and did not notice till now the same inscription is in the Hardcover before the book starts.
talking about the threefold threat and the Herald proclaims, in war wracked misery, announcing the dying of an age. |
Edited by - Firestorm on 25 Oct 2013 01:13:12 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 03:05:24
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| Not sure how relevant to the discussion this is, but in the "sundering poem" that is at the beginning of the Companions and Godborn, each stanza has the title of the books in the Sundering series. I missed that in the Companions, but I noticed it when I read it in Godborn. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 05:05:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Maybe I missed this but has anyone asked the basic question yet... what exactly is being sundered?
They're going to split Abeir and Toril--again.
After the initial onset of the Spellplague, Abeir and Toril fluctuated in and out of sync with each other for roughly ten years, during a period known as the Wailing Years. So for there to be a new "Sundering" Abeir and Toril must first join together again. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 08:58:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Maybe I missed this but has anyone asked the basic question yet... what exactly is being sundered?
They're going to split Abeir and Toril--again.
After the initial onset of the Spellplague, Abeir and Toril fluctuated in and out of sync with each other for roughly ten years, during a period known as the Wailing Years. So for there to be a new "Sundering" Abeir and Toril must first join together again.
Perhaps its not a RSE at all and its just going to be cutting ties to the last edition :D |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 13:25:44
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I thought they might be getting rid of Abeir altogether, and be re-merging Abeir with Toril , restoring the world to its original, pristine condition (in other words, Ed's Realms).
However, that would be considered a bit of a retcon (It would be a full retcon if they also set the timeline back). Also, how would it be 'Sundering' if they are remerging? Unless they mean to 'Sunder' what Ao had done in the past?
It really could be anything. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Oct 2013 13:31:14 |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 19:22:06
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I think its more of a cut and paste. Keep what works and bring back what used to work. Get rid of the rest.
That's as far as the map anyway. |
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The Sundering: Mother of All RSEs? (Spoilers)
