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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 04:45:33
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In your own games, what age do you consider to be "adult" in your game for the different races?
For humans, I find it hard to stick to modern concepts of adulthood. My 11 year old son could easily fight defensively of our farm if we lived "back in the day" as could even my 7 year old in a pinch.
But when I say adult, I mean the usual age that boys become considered "Men" capable of holding land and having their own family?
I am quickly considering making this age much younger in my games. Our neighbor has a teen daughter who just brought her boyfriend over to meet us...and this 14 year old fellow was really mature and "with it" to the point where I wonder how old "adult" should be as far as a fantasy game goes.
So for humans, I feel somewhere around age 14 or 15 is plenty old enough to be an "adult"...while the old DMG (1e) states that a 1st level fighter must be at least 16 years old. That means to me a seasoned and well trained young man...not a 15 year old farmhand.
What do you guys think?
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 05:09:05
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I‘ve met very mature young teens. And middle-aged people who still think and act like children. Individuals vary greatly.
Populations are much more consistent, especially when they‘re measured with a common cultural background. I think 15-16 (given in the D&D books) seems pretty fair overall.
Your question seems to focus on laws - ownership, landing, inheritence, marriage, taxes, that kind of stuff. I suspect that Feudal societies basically applied different laws to different social classes and castes, a Royal Prince could suffer a Regent well into his twenties, while a peasant could be forced to assume the burdens of an adult before puberty. Eastern cultures might treat an aspirant as a child until he is an elderly grandfather. Dwarves get no respect from their guilds until they‘ve apprenticed for 50 years. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 05:18:07
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I'd say around 14-15 as well, though I got the impression (though I can't back it up now) that people don't usually marry (and establish their own families) as soon on Faerûn as they used to do on our world and still do in some places. Mostly because people usually marry due to genuine attraction in the Realms, so most humans in my campaigns only tie their bonds around their twenties. And it's relatively common for sons and daughters to bring their new spouse to the family home anyway, resulting in a big extended family spanning generations living in the same building or a cluster of buildings.
Buuuut I'm digressing a bit. As I said, I mostly agree, and the 1e DMG seems to as well, after all a 1st level fighter is supposed to be a seasoned and well-trained person, not a farmhand. This 16 years old guy has probably been training to be a warrior since he was 11-12 at least (approaching adulthood). |
Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.
Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955
My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 06:03:59
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Yes, I was thinking primarily for ownership of land and "citizen" sort of stuff...not so much marriage, child bearing and things like that.
One of the reasons I was asking, is that I also was reading back on a novel called "Gord the Rogue" by Gygax...and remembered the Beggar's Union of Greyhawk City.
It made me realize that a Street Gang might be composed of several Kobold-skilled youth/toughs that are out for coin/food/territory. Essentially, I could have a "Den" of Kobolds in a city that are actually young street orphans and such...and they could be the base level for an organization like the Naug-Orl. Since Kobolds actually live in the city, they might even work with actual Kobolds as well!
Such groups could be very deadly setting traps and such for the unwary; but scatter quickly if things don't go their way.
As for your casual Militia Recruit though, say a conscript in the city of Ordulin; would 15 be too young or ok? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 06:48:30
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| Seems perfectly fine to me. (After all, militias in RW history often conscripted 13-15 year old boys/men to serve, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't happen in the Realms, too.) |
Edited by - Drustan Dwnhaedan on 12 Oct 2013 06:52:16 |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 11:05:40
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| i know ed has answered this question about some countries as far as legally of age |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 11:13:40
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There was this one:
quote:
Titles, surnames, and the like can’t be denied by a deceased: you can leave your son or daughter nothing (or the rebuking “single used copper coin of the realm”), but you can’t literally “disown” them. However, the desires of the deceased are generally followed absolutely regarding dispositions to children, with two exceptions: wedded spouses can’t be left with little or nothing while children reap the loot; nor can disabled parents, relatives, or spouses; they “must be provided for.” The Crown will do this for the truly poor, but it will exact a share from willed property to “ground” its support if Court pursers judge that a deceased tried to leave property to some beneficiaries without “discharging obligations” for support of others (note that the Court considers all matters carefully, dismissing the claims of false relatives or persons who sponge off their kin for years, and then claim they have a right to go on doing so from the estate; War Wizards will mind-read claimants and priests examine their bodies to make sure they’re infirm).
With all of this said, when it comes to able-bodied children old enough to fend for themselves (age 12 for males and puberty or 13 for females, whichever comes later), a deceased parents’ wishes are usually considered absolute.
and this is a follow-up to it:
quote:
"Is this [age 12 for males and puberty or 13 for females, whichever comes later] the legal age of majority in Cormyr? Does this imply that someone who lost his or her parents at that age would be expected to survive on their own rather than winding up with a legal guardian or sent to live in an orphanage or something like that? How does this work if they decide to take up some dangerous occupation like signing on as a sailor, joinig the army or the obvious example of adventuring?"
No, it's not the legal age of majority, but it is old enough for a child to be apprenticed in a trade, and to be held accountable for agreements made and wrongdoings committed--particularly in the absence of a parent or guardian.
The legal age of majority in Cormyr, to rule in one's own right (without contest or insistence on a regency), enter into contracts, submit oneself for military or other extended service to the Crown, and the like is, from all evidence in Realmslore--including the "After the Dragon" article--seventeen years of age.
A child between the two above ages is the responsibility of his parents or other close-related kin (if surviving), and can't be abandoned, starved, or turned out without means, but if there are no relatives, the child may choose to become employed at an inn or other place of business, join a noble household, apprentice himself to a tradesman or guild, and otherwise enter into agreements necessary for his survival. He can't, however, enter into certain contracts or agreements, and certainly cannot take up the sword as a Purple Dragon. [Note, however, that in direst of circumstances, male children of this tender age would likely be expected to fight, if only to allow for women and younger children to escape. While not men, they'd be the "able bodied males" required to defend the kingdom when darkest days descend and all seems lost.]
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Edited by - rjfras on 12 Oct 2013 20:43:47 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2013 : 15:07:56
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I kind of solved this problem and others (like certain personages in FR being way too old for what they were supposedly doing... liking getting pregnant!) by saying that the Torillian day is only equal to 20 hours of our day, but no-one would be able to tell that when on Toril. Even if someone had wristwatch and went there from our world, their watch would stop functioning, and after a few days of 'jet lag' they'd grow accustom to the time difference.
So, in short, a 48 year old FR woman is really only 40 in our years, thus FR personages only appear to have longer natural lifespans.
Applying this to the thread topic, that would mean a Torillian 12 year old is only ten, and that actually makes a BIG difference at that age. If the 'age of majority' is, say, 13 in Faerûn, that would make the kid is only 10 years, 2 months old on our world, which sounds about right (because a medieval 10 year old was much more mature then one of ours).
Of course, all of this homebrew, but it works as a fix for me, so I thought I would share.
It also allows me to use FR characters MUCH longer IMG - I really hated losing all those OGB folks to old age.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Oct 2013 15:09:36 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 22:32:03
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I'm sure it varies widely, but the 12/13 "age of majority," 17 "full adulthood" thing seems like a good baseline.
We don't really see a lot of children in Realms fiction or sourcebooks, though occasionally there are references to children or things that now adult characters did when they were children. One of my characters quite openly points out that he killed a man when he was 7 years old. But generally, the stories out there are of people "coming of age" or already there, which is a hallmark of fantasy (and most stories for that matter).
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 01:10:37
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The question could be more poignant when dealing with all those pesky halfling thieves who disguise themselves as human children. I suppose people (humans, at least) are instinctively inclined to treat children more leniently than they would treat adults, to have lower expectations of responsibility, to assume a greater sense of innocence - all behaviours which unsavoury halflings can easily exploit.
I can‘t see a mature halfling passing itself off as a human toddler very easily. Yet I also can‘t see why so many would use this trick if older human children are expected to carry adult resposibilities.
Again, I think social norms are based largely on caste. A 6-year old Emperor might be expected to accord himself with imperial gravity, in public view and during official business at any rate. A 13-year old serf might be expected to work the farmstead and provide for a large family, especially after sickness/violence/accident incapacitates his parents and elders. These are classic beginnings for fantasy adventure stock, people who feel the need to escape their restrictive daily ploddings. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 01:28:16
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One thing I didn't understand about the early game was the need for starting human thief characters to be so much older than starting fighters...minimum of 19 years old!
I know that would include some training...but could a thief seriously have need of so much training that he doesn't qualify as a thief until then?
Even the Paladin was a year or two younger than that at minimum! While Druids and Clerics had the same starting age as a thief at minimum...so I think there had to be some reason for a thief being that old beyond training.
Thoughts? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 01:43:15
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Maybe the stressfully illicit risks of a thief‘s lifestyle makes him “age badly“? Or years of petty thefts, muggings, street work, begging, and general cowardice means that a thief needs extra years to be recognized by the local scum guild?
Seriously, though, I agree that thieves should have a lower starting-age threshold than other classes. Thieves are described as feeling that the world (and by extension, everyone in it) somehow owes them a free ride through life ... I‘ve met many people with this attitude over the years, my experience is that most of them are very young and either eventually outgrow these juvenile expectations or end up being victimized by hard life. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 03:36:33
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| Obviously Gary Gygax was not a fan of Oliver Twist. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Adult Age for Inhabitants of Faerun
