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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 18:45:23
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quote:
know blade mentions the slave in the cave, this is how I viewed that encounter; a very small group of us were there to kill a giant lord who's army was in a battle at the time with our commanders army, the battlemasters army was out numbered ( this wasn't expected at the time) because of this we were on a time table and we lost a lot of time trying find are way through the caverns and tunnels, at one time (several hours in game time because we were lost ;-)) we came across slave mining under guard, we killed the gruads and told the slaves the directions to get get out, we decided we couldn't afford the time to lead them out because more of our brothers in the battle would be killed if we had futher delays with our mission. The cleric didn't agree but was out ranked, to me the mission came first especially with my comrades in danger.
I know a spy was going to turn up sometime lol
They didn’t get out and all were kill, so the slaves were from cormyr and dales, but because they weren’t purple dragons they are less of a concern??!! Purple dragon protects crown country and its people. So ones a slave always a slave????? It was the wrong call from a lg pc.
and if you ask he dm because you left them a high ranking purple dragon officer die too or as you call it a brothers in arm??!!
Plus we didn’t leave cos of our brothers in arms, we find the giant king but found him with all his powerful allies and we were way out gunned and then we ran that more like what happen.
quote:
All that aside when it came to the council meeting I viewed it as politication s doing their part i.e talking shite and my character wasn't concerned about the word fencing taking place , but when the cleric reacted the way he did we were all in shock. We just could not comprehend that he would abandon his oath and his friends because of the words used by the prince. In my characters eyes he betrayed us and the king (forgot to mention I also follow torm). After what he done when he resisted arrest and attacked our paladin and other purple dragons my character would attack him without hesitation now that an order from the king has told us too, especially now that he was framed in murder as well.
So funny when you try to Justife it.
My oath is to torm and all good people at that point.
As I said already blind minions to cormyr
lil background on drabin pheonix he is like a one direction fan of cormyr lol  not just one pc has a couple of them with big cormyr egos
So I attacked the paladin??!!! You forgot the bit about I went to him to say goodbye and he tried to arrest me (arrest me by attacking me) so I knocked him out. I didn’t attack him I defended myself.
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drabin pheonix
Acolyte
Ireland
9 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 19:28:16
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this is why I wasn't going to get involved in this post because blade you only listen to what you want to hear and attack anyone who doesn't agree with you, but seen that the other pcs were brought into it on several occasions I wasn't staying quite anymore.
blade you get confused with loyal and blind, you would think a cleric of torm would know the difference. Soknow a loyal soldier are just blind minions! And you still want to preach to the masses? And about attacking the paladin he was fulfilling HIS duty by following a lawful order something you should know about seen that you were the one who preached on about it to the men. And you juctifiy knocking him out because what? You didn't kill so now its ok to assault the law?
and about the prisoners, we didn't know that they wouldn't make it but we did know" OUR "comrades "WERE" been attacked and dying so our commander made a calculated decision to proceed and as his officers we showed loyal to him by trusting his decision, also you forget to mention the reason we left with the mission a failure was because your character got charmed and tried to kill the rest of us! If your god hadn't of taken your powers at that time your would have succeeded. At that stage we were out of healing and badly wounded !And to top it all off the pc incharge told you to put on the manicles because he couldn't trust you without checking to see that you weren't charmed anymore and you refused ( notices a pattern here ;-)) another lawfully order.
p.s there is nothing wrong with been loyal to your country "long live cormyr" ;-) |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 20:07:35
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Death to Cormyr
Longive Icewind dale |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 20:20:13
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Sounds like this is escalating a little quickly.
After the latest round of reveals, I'll just drop in here to say that "neutral good" doesn't quite seem accurate. The priest is definitely acting in a "chaotic" manner, and even "good" is rather shaky at this point. I think I'm ultimately going to side with your DM on this one - this story has the flavor of someone who has some noble-intended goals but is being rather chaotic about meeting those goals. And chaotic good (or even chaotic neutral) is a fine flavor of alignment. The lawful good "What Would Torm Do?" really doesn't match up with the priest's story or goals at this point. So yeah, I'll side with the DM who has suggested both an alignment shift and a deity switch.
Sorry Blade. It's just that your actions and methods (while relatively good and noble in ultimate final intent) do not at all match with lawful good - or even neutral good. I can't see that the -actions- involved would be Torm-approved. Remember: beliefs and intent are one thing, but priests and paladins are measured by their actions... both by their gods, and by people in general.
That said, there's nothing wrong with having an alignment change or a deity change for a cleric, as long as the roleplaying is FUN and has some logical consistency. It sounds like you've all got a pretty fun and politically complicated game (my favorite kind!), but that the priest character is a little mixed up in his methods vs. his intent.
That's not a jab at the player, by the way, just a note that the -character- has some definite issues to work through in understanding action vs. intent and perhaps accidentally causing grief and additional bad things to happen in a rather chaotic pursuit of something noble-minded.
If I were that player, I'd take a step back and think about:
a) the division this is causing in group play.
b) the consequences of what his character is doing for the region. Noble intentions that end in bad consequences ultimately are judged as bad by deities.
I'd suggest a story-shift in this manner: your character is originally from the past, 100 years ago. Does he know that Tyr is "dead"? Does he believe that? What if this priest decides to revive faith in Tyr as a kind of "Tyr isn't dead" heresy and he becomes chaotic good, focusing on Tyr's old aspects of rebellion and justice? BUT perhaps Tyr actually IS dead and the priest is unknowingly being channeled power by Talos... an attempt to lure him away from not only Torm but also goodness in general? Destruction does seem somewhat imminent if you plan to create inter-national strife and dress up Sembian prisoners to beat on innocent civilians in order to make the Purple Dragons look bad (when they're not, really; and this borders on being evil, you know). Of course, this would mean your priest would become "False" to Torm in the cosmic afterlife sense, and "Faithless" because Tyr is truly dead, but it could be massively fun to roleplay.
Just my two cents. Keep having FUN, remember that!
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 30 Sep 2013 20:47:09 |
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portose_sharpe
Seeker
Ireland
74 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 20:48:46
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if funny you say Talos and that was the first god i thought of when this all started, because of the fact he is the god of chaos and rebellion, which at the time was the pcs end goal,
i like the idea of talos or another god using him, and guiding him down the wrong path while allowing the pc to go with this ideas however netual/evil they may be. and in turn the god gaining a powerful cleric in his ranks.
btw i have said it already but some great posts guys n girls, both sides of the fence :)
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Edited by - portose_sharpe on 30 Sep 2013 20:49:18 |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 21:16:23
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have to say you made to laugh there.....
quote:
this is why I wasn't going to get involved in this post because blade you only listen to what you want to hear and attack anyone who doesn't agree with you, but seen that the other pcs were brought into it on several occasions I wasn't staying quite anymore.
you forgot laughing face at the end#!
we are the most Opinionated group in europe, this is called a debate,
jesus calling the kettle back????!!!
so confused with loyal and blind??!!
quote:
Now the decussions about the prince, we all now the type of person he is but he is still royalty and it is our duty to obey( unless its outright evil, I maybe LN but I do have honour) even when we all have our doubts about him. From what I have read many of the posts mention that we other pcs are yes men ( can't copy and post on this dam phone) or something along those line. The fact is we all had run ins with him, one of mine was when he had his lackies start to order around the purple dragons when we were traveling to the Dales. I confronted the prince informing that it broke protacal and hinders our job in protecting him, this lead to one of his regular sparing exabitions with other pc officers which he found amusing ( Muppet).
so you dont like the prince but then he brought your loyalty by handing you title of warlord to him ( part of his class he needs) you really liked him then??!!!:)
as i said already i went to say goodbye and he pulled his sword. so i let the prince kill me then??
yes i got charmed because i told to go over and pick up the key that charmed me... thats my fault??? your right i did attack the group but then i heal everybody back up. we ran with our tails between our legs.
that was the dm been nice to you incase i did kill you, as far as i know if only paladins that lose there powers if been charmed into doing something bad??? ( god i should have killed the lot of you, would have stopped a lot of the crap we dealing with now haha)
last time you get free tickets to roger waters the wall
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 22:22:15
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quote:
Sorry Blade. It's just that your actions and methods (while relatively good and noble in ultimate final intent) do not at all match with lawful good - or even neutral good. I can't see that the -actions- involved would be Torm-approved. Remember: beliefs and intent are one thing, but priests and paladins are measured by their actions... both by their gods, and by people in general.
thanks for the post therise, but remember i have done nothing yet, i have couple of ideas, asked which is good or bad.as my pc see it i need to help the people of the dales and i am not asking for seat or gold. at this point in game the only thing that has happened i left then i get framed for murder and my family kidnapped. and all finger point at the prince and he close allies
but i think like a lot of posts in the forum gets side tracked from the first question.
who could i change too to fit or do i?
dm says hoar i agree to a point, the problem i have with hoar is that he is bane's buddy now and i want to stay good, but if i change it looks like i joined banes minion.
there was one other thing i was thinking of was get a feat that allows my aglinment change to cg but allows to stay under torm ( cant remember the feat) hectic something.
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 01:17:53
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quote:
Originally posted by blade020877
quote:
Sorry Blade. It's just that your actions and methods (while relatively good and noble in ultimate final intent) do not at all match with lawful good - or even neutral good. I can't see that the -actions- involved would be Torm-approved. Remember: beliefs and intent are one thing, but priests and paladins are measured by their actions... both by their gods, and by people in general.
thanks for the post therise, but remember i have done nothing yet, i have couple of ideas, asked which is good or bad.as my pc see it i need to help the people of the dales and i am not asking for seat or gold. at this point in game the only thing that has happened i left then i get framed for murder and my family kidnapped. and all finger point at the prince and he close allies
but i think like a lot of posts in the forum gets side tracked from the first question.
who could i change too to fit or do i?
dm says hoar i agree to a point, the problem i have with hoar is that he is bane's buddy now and i want to stay good, but if i change it looks like i joined banes minion.
there was one other thing i was thinking of was get a feat that allows my aglinment change to cg but allows to stay under torm ( cant remember the feat) hectic something.
You may be thinking of the Heretic of the Faith feat from 3.5E Power of Faerun. It allows (for a Cleric) up to 2-steps of divergent alignment from your deity. It doesn't exactly protect you from divine retribution or loss of spells per your deity's decision, though, or offer any protection from excommunication by your church. If the heresy is particularly divergent, you can be considered one of the False in the afterlife if you die. Lots to think about, really.
Also, to take this feat and become a heretic, you should define the exact nature of the heresy you're promoting (i.e. specific beliefs which challenge tenets of Torm's dogma). This is important because the feat prompts a leadership check. If you fail the leadership check, you lose followers because they don't agree with your novel religious teachings. It cannot simply be about politics or choices that royal leaders have made, it has to be heretical religious beliefs to the standard, accepted faith of Torm.
Thing is, I'm not sure you'd technically qualify as a heretic, as you're not (yet) advancing any specific dogma or off-kilter religious beliefs of your own that challenges Torm's dogma. You've essentially become a rebel, or dissentor, from your church and your oaths of service to the Crown.
I don't know your house rules, or a lot of what has actually transpired in your game, so consider the differences between heresy (publicly offering new religious beliefs that are contrary to accepted dogma), blasphemy (publicly showing irreverence and disagreement with church officials for their beliefs and interpretations), and apostasy (publicly renouncing your god and church because your beliefs have been negated in some way). Heresy is an insult to your god. Blasphemy is an insult to church officials. Apostasy is an insult to both.
Out of curiosity, why were your family members arrested after you deserted the prince? Were they actually arrested, or just brought in temporarily for questioning?
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 01 Oct 2013 02:01:09 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 01:36:02
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Well clearly has been outcasted already by local clergy.
There are things that bother me about the claims made. One thing we as outsiders must remember. There are House rules in place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 03:24:20
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my family was arrested and jailed. lands and keep taken from them too because when i came back (100 years trip) i found my family but were in a bad way. keep nearly in ruins. so sold magical items to help them recover. plus a child from my family was poison as used as bate to get me in the open.
so tactics of cormyr (prince or his allies) are evil in my eyes.
i am an outcast at the moment of the church in cormyr.
the more i have been thinking apart my plans i have got a bit side tracked.... i should go with my first plan ( wasnt really my plan it was someone from in here helped me)
i notice a lot of talk about alignment, read up on grey gaurds... they have to be lg and look at what they do. alignments its a guide line i believe for pc's.
while this post has been going i thought i read up torm dogna, history
and role of the church plus alignments.
Journey to Tantras, one of the cities of Vesperin, Make common cause with the Pontiff there and inform him of the dire situation. Convince him that he needs to send aid to the Dalesfolk to preempt Cormyrian opportunism. Do what is necessary to win him over.
goal here is to get help to the Dalesfolk
and in return help him after with the demon cult problem they have |
Edited by - blade020877 on 01 Oct 2013 03:49:23 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 05:40:33
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if you're using 3.x rules.
Shadowbane Inquisitor .... and shadowbane Stalker.....
grey guard blows in comparison. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4490 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 06:00:14
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| What? I've found both Shadowbane PrCs underpowered compared to the Gray Guard. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 17:45:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
What? I've found both Shadowbane PrCs underpowered compared to the Gray Guard.
might be that I also never liked the grey guard and prefer skulking around in the shadows too......
and ummmm there is also that feat that allows you to use true smite or something that allows you to smite against everybody....( required smite good or smite evil, wonders if smite law/chaos would work as I don't think that smite the badguy{ smite infidel} would work)
just doesnt remember the name of the book..... always wanted to say it was emeplers of evil....... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 01 Oct 2013 18:38:42 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 18:01:54
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quote:
Originally posted by blade020877
my family was arrested and jailed. lands and keep taken from them too because when i came back (100 years trip) i found my family but were in a bad way. keep nearly in ruins. so sold magical items to help them recover. plus a child from my family was poison as used as bate to get me in the open.
I know you said they were arrested, jailed, and then later broken out and captured. But what were the actual charges? Unless things have changed dramatically for your world, Cormyr can't just arrest everyone from a given family - and they can't seize property - without solid evidence and a trial. In the past, there have been traitors from even noble Cormyrean families and the Crown can't just arrest everyone and take an ancestral seat or titles without a trial.
Also, just thinking out loud here... is there any possibility at all that a third or fourth party might be involved in capturing your family or poisoning your relative? What if it isn't the Prince or his agents, but someone else who has something to gain here?
quote:
i notice a lot of talk about alignment, read up on grey gaurds... they have to be lg and look at what they do. alignments its a guide line i believe for pc's.
For most classes, alignment generally is a guide. But there are special considerations for paladins and priests because they can lose powers, even certain class privileges, with changed alignment and beliefs. Even with Grey Guards and Shadowbane classes, you -still- can't breach the most important parts of your dogmatic code, religious oaths, or go against your deity in serious ways without regular Atonements and Communing. These are rules for "gray morality" sorts of games, but it can still be an incredibly fine line to walk such that you don't end up shifting alignment and losing spells or abilities.
I'd say the biggest challenge for your character right now is obtaining some concrete evidence, which can then be used to convince allies to join your cause. You might find that convincing the other players in the game to join your cause would be the most powerful thing you could do. Seek them out, show them evidence. Your entire church can't be corrupt, so seek out potential allies there and create political division within the church. Gain spies that are close to the Prince himself, things like that.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 01 Oct 2013 18:05:01 |
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portose_sharpe
Seeker
Ireland
74 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 20:53:41
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hello therise
in the game, his pc was branded a traitor and all his wealth he has in cormyr was seized by the crown, his family are a low ranking noble without many connections, and he had given them money to rebuild there home, but since it was his money the king seized it.
the offical story released by the crown was there was held for questioning, about the pc and the money. not actually arrested. and they was placed in a nice holding prison for their own safe being.
and you are right other that his feelings and thoughts.and the prince being a d**k he has nothing to say the prince was involved, like he has no evidence to tie the prince to anything.
i think he main reason for assuming the prince is behind all this, is the way the prince for better use for a word "bullied" the dales into accepting a deal, to allow cormyr troops into the dales to help defend them against an army looking to invade the dales. and in exchange cormyr now has some power in the running of the dales.
ATM in our game cormyr is setting up troops trying to block the invading army from entering the dales.
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 22:06:09
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quote:
Originally posted by portose_sharpe
hello therise
in the game, his pc was branded a traitor and all his wealth he has in cormyr was seized by the crown, his family are a low ranking noble without many connections, and he had given them money to rebuild there home, but since it was his money the king seized it.
the offical story released by the crown was there was held for questioning, about the pc and the money. not actually arrested. and they was placed in a nice holding prison for their own safe being.
and you are right other that his feelings and thoughts.and the prince being a d**k he has nothing to say the prince was involved, like he has no evidence to tie the prince to anything.
i think he main reason for assuming the prince is behind all this, is the way the prince for better use for a word "bullied" the dales into accepting a deal, to allow cormyr troops into the dales to help defend them against an army looking to invade the dales. and in exchange cormyr now has some power in the running of the dales.
ATM in our game cormyr is setting up troops trying to block the invading army from entering the dales.
Ah, okay. Interesting. So it might have been the Prince's agents who broke the family out of jail, kidnapped them, and poisoned the boy, or it could be any number of other anti-Crown nobles in Cormyr who have a secret agenda and want to focus attention away from themselves and onto this situation.
Seems like it's even more imperative to find out who actually is now secretly holding the family kidnapped. If it's the Prince, there's some evidence, but if not then there's another faction operating here with yet another agenda. And Cormyrean nobles have all sorts of agendas up their sleeves, heh.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 01 Oct 2013 22:07:27 |
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portose_sharpe
Seeker
Ireland
74 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 22:11:58
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| indeed they do :) a mine field |
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blade020877
Seeker
Ireland
72 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 03:10:03
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stop giving him ideas lol
we met a high noble from cormyr in the game which charters the powerful group that poisoned the kid and attacked me, this same noble close friend to the prince and rumors of close ties in other things.
i would say the prince gave the orders to do it that's it.
thats why i am pointing at the prince ( plus its a prick too lol)
the big problem i have with what the prince did was, he gave a price to save people of the the dales.
my duty is to protect all good beings of realm, thats in torm's words (dogna). so my plan is to help them without them having to give up anything.
what the prince did was give the dales an ultimatum plain and simple,
seat or get over run with evil army.... thats what i saw
and p.s. dm if he is not evil i am so going to kill you lol
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Edited by - blade020877 on 02 Oct 2013 03:26:35 |
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portose_sharpe
Seeker
Ireland
74 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 20:37:42
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Encase anyone wants to know, the Cleric was taken by the bad a epic leshay sorc, and they was using his soul to empower spells and stuff he was rescued by his "friends" that he turned his back on. the group found out about this leshay who was using the prince to her own needs, the group managed to show the leshay in her true form to the cormyr nobles and royals, a battle insued and her ran for it . . . .
many many many things happened inbetween the game lasted for 2 years real time :) once a week |
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who do i change to or do i???
