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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 09:15:23

I recently read a passage about a book detailing the history and basically everything about dragons.

From what i remember it was written by someone or something unknown and it was discovered in the Anauroch area but i cant remember which book i found the paragraph in.

I hope someone else knows what im talking about and can refer a poor muddled fanatic to the right book and page.

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 10:10:58

Well there are the TABLETS OF PHARYSSOLNYTH from Anauroch: The Empire of Shade...I'll see what else I can think of...

EDIT: The Draco Mystere from the 3.5e Draconomicon, though this wasn't found in the Anauroch.

Edited by - ksu_bond on 16 Aug 2013 10:15:51

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 10:54:34

Hmmm, not sure if its the tablets of Pharssolynth.

It was something along the lines of a standard history entry so it would have been

xxxx DR: the book of such an such was discovered in the abandoned city of wherever.

I know i am being incredibly vague but thats all i can remember.

Thanks anyway.

Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 10:59:40

The references for the Tablets of Pharyssolnyth entry in the Forgotten Realms wiki list only Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves.

dazzlerdal would you say you read the info in a novel or in a sourcebook?

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 11:24:06

It was definitely a sourcebook (i dont own any novels)

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 12:17:59

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

The references for the Tablets of Pharyssolnyth entry in the Forgotten Realms wiki list only Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves.

dazzlerdal would you say you read the info in a novel or in a sourcebook?

Not sure why it's not listed but the Tablets are also on page 149 of Anauroch: The Empire of Shade.

Edited by - ksu_bond on 16 Aug 2013 12:18:21

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 12:30:10

We have also mentions about the "Draconomicon" in the 2e sourcebook of the same name, and in this same book some other tomes are cited, like the "Compleat Dragonhunter" guide and a book where the Creation Myth of the dragons is described.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 12:32:41

It could be in a book to do with cormyr and the stonelands, and the surrounding areas because im working on collecting all the info i can find on those regions at the moment. Im currently going through the 2nd edition sourcebooks now, but also branching out into dragon, dungeon, polyhedron etc.

I didnt write it down at first because it wasnt directly connected, but then i read something in the recent ed greenwood book with his notes on FR and it mentioned something about a book of dragons that sammaster was involved with and i wondered if the two were connected, but i'll be damned if i can find that original reference now.

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 12:39:13

I think the Draconomicon - or another tome - is also mentioned in the 2e Cult of the Dragon sourcebook.

EDIT: Actually, it is another book, named the Tome of the Dragon. This tome is strongly linked to Sammaster, and must be the one you are looking for.

Edited by - Barastir on 16 Aug 2013 12:47:52

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 12:51:25

Sfter a quick scan, the 2e Cult of the Dragon mentions the Tome of the Dragon penned by Sammaster.

BadCatMan
Senior Scribe

Australia
401 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 13:24:56

quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

The references for the Tablets of Pharyssolnyth entry in the Forgotten Realms wiki list only Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves.

dazzlerdal would you say you read the info in a novel or in a sourcebook?

Not sure why it's not listed but the Tablets are also on page 149 of Anauroch: The Empire of Shade.

Ah, my own article!

Because I didn't know they were detailed anywhere else. I'll try to update it with Anauroch some time. Unless someone else cares to? (Don't be shy!)

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki

Edited by - BadCatMan on 16 Aug 2013 13:25:45

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 16 Aug 2013 : 13:51:25

Its definitely not the tome of the dragon, thats the one sammaster worked on. The reference im after is a book penned by an unknown source

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 16:50:07

It was the Book of the World, discovered in Asram in 1254.

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 19 Aug 2013 : 22:12:56

hmmm...I need to add that to my list of in game books...what source is that found in?

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 09:05:54

Eventually i refound it in the FR wiki which cites the draconomicon so maybe i read it there first.

I was just trying to figure out a plausible explanation as to how Sammaster learned about the dracorage mythal (its unlikely the elves told him).

Sammaster reappeared in the desertsmouth mountains in 1285. This book was found in Asram in 1254. The book details mythology about dragons (from a red dragon's perspective admittedly) so might include nuggets of lore about the erecting of the mythal and the doom of the dragons, and how those nasty vicious elves stole away the dragon's kingdoms.

So Sammaster travels to the desertsmouth mountains hoping to plunder the remains of Asram to find out information, sources etc about this book and who wrote it (and maybe find another copy, or some draft works etc). This sets him on the right track to discovering the location of the dracorage mythal (but in my version of events he isn't killed because he is too cool and a lich and only a stupid lich would make their phylactery so obvious).

Anyways that was just the train of thought i had at the time.

ksu_bond
Learned Scribe

New Zealand
214 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 09:21:31

Sounds very plausible to me...

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 13:29:07

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Eventually i refound it in the FR wiki which cites the draconomicon so maybe i read it there first.

I was just trying to figure out a plausible explanation as to how Sammaster learned about the dracorage mythal (its unlikely the elves told him).

Sammaster reappeared in the desertsmouth mountains in 1285. This book was found in Asram in 1254. The book details mythology about dragons (from a red dragon's perspective admittedly) so might include nuggets of lore about the erecting of the mythal and the doom of the dragons, and how those nasty vicious elves stole away the dragon's kingdoms.

So Sammaster travels to the desertsmouth mountains hoping to plunder the remains of Asram to find out information, sources etc about this book and who wrote it (and maybe find another copy, or some draft works etc). This sets him on the right track to discovering the location of the dracorage mythal (but in my version of events he isn't killed because he is too cool and a lich and only a stupid lich would make their phylactery so obvious).

Anyways that was just the train of thought i had at the time.

Something that no one else has seen in thousands of years is obvious?

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 14:18:50

Well some great big magical construct that is making all dragons on the planet go nuts and therefore everyone wants to destroy is a bad idea to make as your phylactery.

Instead make it an invisible grain of sand and throw it onto a beach (assuming of course that phylacteries are immune to erosion). Or as one of the dracoliches did, make it an incredibly useful magic sword and call it dragonslayer (a play on words of dragonslair).

If i was a lich i would make it mundane looking and unobtrusive, if no one was looking for it. Or if someone knew i was a lich and was looking to destroy me then i could do a double bluff and make my phylactery a big red box with the words "Lich's Phylactery" written on the side. That way no one would take it seriously and would leave it alone.

Sammaster was to cool and detailed a villain to waste his destruction in a novel. I had plans way back when after reading Cult of the Dragon sourcebook; one of the plot hooks was that Sammaster wanted to transfer himself into a dragon's body as a lich and make himself a human dracolich.
I remembered about Tiamat's avatar dying in Unther and thought it would be very awesome if he tried to use that body to inhabit, but then it would be impossible for anyone to kill a dracolich tiamat archmage.

Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 17:02:29

That's the "book where the Creation Myth of the dragons is described." I mentioned in 16 Aug. As I thought it was a book specifically about dragons, I haven't mentioned its name. besides, the way it is described in 2e Draconomicon made me believe the book also had other creation myths.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 17:12:39

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Well some great big magical construct that is making all dragons on the planet go nuts and therefore everyone wants to destroy is a bad idea to make as your phylactery.

Ah, but not everyone wanted to destroy it -- it was practically unknown. If I'm trying to hide something, putting it in a place that its creators forgot about millennia ago seems like a good idea. Especially when that place has stood for tens of thousands of years.

And he wasn't just trying to hide it -- by integrating his phylactery to the mythal, he was able to control it. If your goal is to make undead dragons, and you can walk up to a dragon and say "you'll go crazy if you don't go undead," then chances are you'll get another undead dragon out of the deal.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 20 Aug 2013 : 19:26:32

I'm not arguing with his goal or method, it was a very good idea to get more undead dragons, but having his only phylactery linked to the mythal. He should have known good always finds a way to stick it's nosy beak in where it's not wanted and save the day

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 20:30:59

Just read Elminster's Forgotten Realms again.

The Book of the Dragon is long lost/long hidden by Khelben Arunsun and detailed the lives of various dragons from the perspective of that dragon.

The book of the world was found in Asram in 1254 and details the life of dragons from the perspective of a red dragon.

I figure that the book of the world was merely one chapter i.e. one story from the perspective of one dragon from The Book of Dragons that was hidden by Khelben long ago (and it looks like he might have broken it up into pieces).

Each story actually contained a real live dragon that had been imprisoned long ago against its will. Completing the story would release the dragon from its captivity.

Now it looks like Sammaster owned this book long ago and was bargaining with the dragons to get them to become dracoliches before he released them.

After his first death the book was hidden by Khelben and so in 1285 DR when he reappears he goes after the only piece of the book he could find which is in Asram. Unfortunately the twelve stop him.

Now it looks like this book might have been penned by Ioulaum which makes every dragon imprisoned in the book at least 1600 years old, possibly 2-3000 years old which would make them very old and very powerful. That would be a book worth obtaining if you were working for the cult of the dragon.

Unfortunately it probably contained no information about the dracorage mythal so that poo poos my original idea for the book, but it's still cool nonetheless.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 21:13:06

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Now it looks like this book might have been penned by Ioulaum which makes every dragon imprisoned in the book at least 1600 years old, possibly 2-3000 years old which would make them very old and very powerful. That would be a book worth obtaining if you were working for the cult of the dragon.

Not necessarily... If the dragons were in stasis, then they would technically be 2-3000 years old, but would come out of the book at the same physical age they were when they went in.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 : 21:28:15

But where would be the fun in that.
The book is much more dangerous and interesting if the dragons aged.

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36804 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 : 04:56:42

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

But where would be the fun in that.
The book is much more dangerous and interesting if the dragons aged.

If they aged, they would have reached the end of their allotted timespan and died.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6361 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 : 08:46:54

I prefer my dragons to be immortal (barring disease or misadventure). I particularly like one of George Krashos' recent posts in which he mentioned a 15,000 year old dragon. Now that would be truly spectacular and scary to see that amount of power.

The only thing limiting a dragons power as he ages is the tendency to sleep longer so a dragon several thousand years old is liable to sleep for centuries maybe even millennia.

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