| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 22:38:12
|
|
I was wondering if there was more info for Jalynfein, The Spider Mage, a Master of Sorcere in Menzoberranzan, as the only reference I can find is in Realms of the Underdark Anthologies, in the Zaknafein Story. I think I can recall his stats in Dragon Magazine, but I can't remember which issue. I have heard from my "sources" that Jalynfein is more powerful than Lord Dyrr, or Gromph!
|
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 31 Jan 2004 22:47:22
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 23:57:39
|
Right, I found some "canon" information which is listed here, but its 2e so I need to convert it.
Jalynfein "the Spider Mage" (CN male drow W24) is perhaps the most powerful wizard in Menzoberranzan. He carefully cultivates a reputation of insanity and zealous devotion to Lolth, but truly hates the tyranny of the Spider Queen and opposes all forms of slavery. Jalynfein covers his disfigured face with a featureless grey cloth mask. Once a day, he can use his natural ability of Spider Summoning, with the side effect that his face is transformed into a writhing mass of long, spidery legs, lit by a flickering purple and orange faerie fire radiance. The Spider Mage is immune to most arachnid venom, and can unleash a burst of 24 Magic Missiles if he deliberately breaks a finger. Jalynfein has access to many magic items and has developed many new spells, including the 9th level wizard spell Web of Shadows.
Now I'm asking for opinions before I include him in my campaign. Since he doesn't follow Lolth, do you think he follows Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, or some other deity? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 01 Feb 2004 00:32:58 |
 |
|
|
Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 00:11:36
|
| Honestly, I think he is like Gromph, in that he does nto worship any god at all. He hates the Lolthites, so he does not worship Lolth, and he does not strike me as a Eilistraee or Ghaunadaur worshiper. If he did worship a Drow god, maybe Vhaeraun, but he realy never seemed the pious type. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 00:16:12
|
Hmm, thats true. Perhaps you've read Realms of the Underdark?
///////SPOILER///////
Beginning of Spoiler (Highlight Area to Read)
In Realms of the Underdark, he helps Zaknafein, who is a good drow, thusly leading me to believe he does not follow Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun's clergy helps males in need, but they do not help good-aligned drow.
End of Spoiler |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Lina
Senior Scribe
Australia
469 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 01:54:50
|
| The novels I've read doesn't mention that Gromph favors any Gods, but at least he hates Lolth and that feeling is mutual with all Menzoberranzan males, eventhough they don't openly admit it. |
“Darkness beyond twilight, crimson beyond blood that flows! Buried in the flow of time. In thy great name. I pledge myself to darkness. All the fools who stand in our way shall be destroyed…by the power you and I possess! DRAGON SLAVE!!!”
"Thieves? Ah, such an ugly word... look upon them as the most honest sort of merchant."
-Oglar the Thieflord |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:34:38
|
| Yes, but I'm trying to figure out if Jalynfein follows a deity or is one of those "Faith makes a person weak" kind of people. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:39:59
|
In response to your spoiler Shadowlord, Zaknafein wasn't a good drow. His alignment was CN.
And I aggree with Edain, Jalynfein seems a lot like Gromph in the way he is. I would imagine he didn't follow any god at all. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:44:34
|
Well, less evil, anyways.....
Hmmm, thanks for the insight fellow scribes. Now the question is, how can I incorperate the Spider Mage into my campaign? |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:47:59
|
Well, you need to give us a bit more info on your campaign and the PC's in it before I can help ya with it Shadowlord. I know I am extremely clever but sadly I haven't memorised "Detect Thoughts" today, and my Mindflayer friend is out of town  |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:58:12
|
Ah, of course. Sorry Cherrn, my mind is racing on overtime today.....
The Campaign is currently taking place in the Underdark, Menzoberranzan, and Sshamath to be exact. It also takes place in seperate sections of Cormanthor. (I'm a player, not the DM, by the way, but I might as well be, seeing as how I supply most of the info for our DM.
Me:Tsabrak Teken'ghym, Drow, Shadowdancer 13th lvl, Chosen of Vhaeraun CE
Friend: Riklaunim Ghaun, Drow, Assassin 12th lvl, CE
Friend: Vesz'aun Auvryath, Drow, Bladesinger 12th lvl, NE
Friend: Kimmuriel Oblodra, Drow, Psionicist 13th lvl, NE
Friend: Mlakymib, Illithid, Psionicist 15th lvl, NE |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 01 Feb 2004 05:20:35 |
|
|
|
Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 03:08:37
|
More info please, alignment and all that!
You could use Jalynfein as some sort of contact person in Menzoberranzan. Since he hates Lolth and her priestesses I would imagine he would be willing to help out if a score of Vhaeraunite followers decided they wanted to do something about the power of the Lolthite followers in Menzoberranzan. Judging by the lvls of your group, trying to create havoc in Arach Tinilith would indeed be possible and he would probably gladly join in if he would be able to remain hidden and sit on top of the spoils when the ordeal is over. A mage his lvl, and age, should have access to all kinds of information regarding Menzoberranzan including hidden passages in Arach Tinilith and other places.
How's that ? |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
Edited by - Cherrn on 01 Feb 2004 03:09:12 |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 05:19:39
|
| Very good! You want alignments? Very well, I'll edit that post. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 11:51:50
|
who is Zaknafein ? i think i have heard that name befor.
and Jalynfein is he not in the books about loth silence ? |
|
|
|
Bayne
Seeker
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 13:06:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
who is Zaknafein ? i think i have heard that name befor.
and Jalynfein is he not in the books about loth silence ?
Zaknafein was the weapons master of menzoberranzan's house do'urden, and father of Drizzt, the famous ranger. |
Nindyn vel'uss kyorl nind ratha thalra elyhinn dal lil alust |
|
|
|
Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 15:46:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Cyric
who is Zaknafein ? i think i have heard that name befor.
and Jalynfein is he not in the books about loth silence ?
Jalynfein is not in the WotSQ. The only mages featured in WotSQ are Pharaun Mizzrym, Gromph Baenre, and the Lichdrow Dyrr. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 22:06:48
|
| Jalynfein, "The Spider Mage" is FULLY detailed in the Menzoberranzan boxed set, which is 2nd edition and predates all those other resources. He is more fully described than any other character in that set, excluding Drizzt, who has his own booklet. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2013 : 23:43:52
|
| non-evil Drow could worship Vhaeraun especially if they don't know any alternatives. People don't magically know their own or other peoples' alignments unless they cast "detect evil" or whatever. Even then what does that mean exactly to them? |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2013 : 01:28:40
|
| I love drow and elves, but I have never heard of this guy. Guess this is further proof I need to do more research *sighs* |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
|
|
Blackwhite
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2014 : 14:17:06
|
| I know this topic is old but I just happen to come across it. In the Starlight and Shadows series, Shakti Huzrin is a double agent Drow for both Lolth and Vhaeraun. She meets with Gromph Baenre (can't rememeber which book exactly) and watches him summon a scrying crystal from thin air. She notes that it is the same one she is able to bring into existence by the power of Vhaeraun. I'd be almost 100% sure that Gromph Baenre is a Vhaeraunite, can't say for sure about Jalynfein as it seems so little is known of him. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2014 : 20:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Blackwhite
I know this topic is old but I just happen to come across it. In the Starlight and Shadows series, Shakti Huzrin is a double agent Drow for both Lolth and Vhaeraun. She meets with Gromph Baenre (can't rememeber which book exactly) and watches him summon a scrying crystal from thin air. She notes that it is the same one she is able to bring into existence by the power of Vhaeraun. I'd be almost 100% sure that Gromph Baenre is a Vhaeraunite, can't say for sure about Jalynfein as it seems so little is known of him.
While I do think Gromph is a follower of Vhaeraun, I have to apologize for saying I think that basing this on just a single common spell is very, very weak. There are a lot of spells shared among the various priesthoods, and there is a lot of arcane magic that duplicates divine magic, and vice versa. And some clerics do gain a few arcane spells, too.
Not only that, but summoning a scrying crystal is hardly the most unique application of magic. Even if there wasn't already an arcane version of the spell, Gromph could have seen it used and developed his own version. Or some past cleric could have developed a divine version of the spell, after seeing a wizard use it.
So having one unremarkable bit of magic in common is not, to me, conclusive proof of anything. It's barely even worth notation, in my opinion.
Actually, given how closely Gromp plays everything to the chest, and how long he'd live as a known Vhaeraunite, I'd expect that if it was a Vhaeraun-only spell, he'd not use it at all unless he knew there would be no non-Vhaeraunite witnesses about.
No, for me, the indications of where Gromph's loyalties lie are in everything we've seen about his personality and character, and in particular his dissatisfaction with Lolth's priesthood and her grip on the city. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2014 : 10:00:42
|
Apologies to TBeholder... He had a duplicate post, and it looks like he went back to delete one at the same time I was deleting the other! Sorry about that, TB!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Blackwhite
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2014 : 17:58:06
|
From Tangled Webs - Page 129
"The Archmage helo out his hands to her, palms up. Although they had been empty a moment before, cradled between them was a tiny bowl of dark red crystal. It grew rapidly until it was identical in every respect to the srying bowl given to Shakti by the drow god Vhaeraun. The priestess stared, too stunned to hide her astonishment."
Then the next page
"Shakti could well imagine why. She would never accuse the archmage of Menzoberranzan of consorting with Vhaeraun, but what other explanation could there be? Where else could Gromph have acquired that scrying bowl? Or have learned so much about her plans? Or have gotten past the god-given wards on her chamber? Yes, she had a very good idea why Gromph Baenre had no wish to be seen in the presence of his sister's traitor-priestess."
So you must accept, if that passage is to be taken literally that Gromph serves Vhaeraun. And if not then which other god? Ghaunadaur? Certainly not Lolth or Eilistraee. He certainly has a deity as that would be the only way to break the god-wards of the masked lord.
Off topic - Pretty sure Jarlaxle is a Chosen of Ghaunadaur. |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2014 : 18:31:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Since he doesn't follow Lolth, do you think he follows Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Kiaransalee, Ghaunadaur, or some other deity?
Why not just like anyone who isn't a fanatic or even particularly devoted - a little of everything he doesn't actively dislike?
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
In Realms of the Underdark, he helps Zaknafein, who is a good drow, thusly leading me to believe he does not follow Vhaeraun. Vhaeraun's clergy helps males in need, but they do not help good-aligned drow.
We know he isn't a priest anyway, so non sequitur.
Moreover, even if he was a priest, and Zaknafein was good, so what? It makes sense that they don't go out of their way to help someone they don't expect to convert or even help them much, but why would they miss a chance to wreck the plans of matrons just because it benefits someone less important whom they don't like? Out of some bizarre "Tru Evil!" sanctimony? They're thieves and saboteurs, not Death Metal fans. 
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Love this guys description. Really icky. And the act of breaking a finger and subsequently casting 24 magic missiles is both gross and awesome. I wish I'd been this creative with my magic-using villain designs.
IIRC, a fairly common drow trick, called "body weapon". Can't remember where it was described, but there were examples of weirder triggers.
Non-drow related spells include Blood Lightning and Laeral's Disrobement. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2014 : 19:48:22
|
| Well, I can easily imagine Gromph coming up with such a spell independently of the Vhaeraunite clergy, as he's an archmage after all. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2014 : 20:46:36
|
| Doesn't make sense though. How would he even know about it or how it's created unless he WAS one? I've always thought he was a Vaerhaunite, too, by some of the things he said and thought throughout the books. He may keep it a closely guarded secret- for self-preservation if nothing else- but he seems more likely to follow Vaerhaun than anyone else. I seriously doubt he'd follow Ghaunadaur, but Vaerhaun seems to fit him quite well, given his taste for intrigue and deception. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2014 : 00:48:03
|
| I'm not disputing that he is a follower of Vhaeraun; I'm just saying that the similarity of a scrying device isn't proof of faith. As the quoted passage implies, one possibility was that he deliberately mimicked the bowl she had as a message to her. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2014 : 00:49:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Doesn't make sense though. How would he even know about it or how it's created unless he WAS one? I've always thought he was a Vaerhaunite, too, by some of the things he said and thought throughout the books. He may keep it a closely guarded secret- for self-preservation if nothing else- but he seems more likely to follow Vaerhaun than anyone else. I seriously doubt he'd follow Ghaunadaur, but Vaerhaun seems to fit him quite well, given his taste for intrigue and deception.
There is always scrying magic; he could have been spying on her. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2014 : 01:02:44
|
| Having read the book myself, I never got that impression. It was very clear that him having the exact same device (and those are only given to Vaerhaunites BY HIM) indicated that he was a follower. I do not think that Vaerhaun would ever allow someone who was not a follower to acquire or create a scrying bowl that is a special "gift" from him to his followers. As an archmage, Gromph would be well aware that doing so would rouse the deity's wrath toward him, and I seriously doubt he'd ever risk that. As much as he hates Lolth, he'd never do something to directly anger ANY deity. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2014 : 01:35:59
|
Where is it written that dark red crystal scrying bowls are the exclusive property of Vhaeraun?
And what would Vhaeraun do to someone making their own? Deities have temples and altars get destroyed by members of rival faiths, without taking direct action, and/or artifacts of their church get stolen... A deity can't smite someone for something like that; they would have to send their followers to do something about it. And the Archmage of Menzoberranzan is a pretty hard target...
Again, I'm not arguing that Gromph follows Vhaeraun. I'm just saying, again, that I don't think the casting of a single spell with an unremarkable effect is proof positive of that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Jalynfein (The Spider Mage)
