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Anthony Stock
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 18:43:40
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I know that the halfings were changed to make them less hobbit like. Was there ever a lore reason for the change?
I'm trying to find a race with the culture of the typical hobbit. Easy going, simple, and homebuddy. A am trying to fine a or gotten realm race similar to that.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 19:42:24
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| The change was copyright issue, as best I recall 1st Edition Lore did not indicate "Easy going, simple, and homebuddy" so my best understanding lore did not change much because of the name of the race being changed. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 19:43:00
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Halflings in 2e were extremely hobbit-like. Halflings in 3e were also very hobbit-like, only slimmed down so that they looked like human children more than full-grown, small adults.
It's only the 4e halflings that were taken in a totally different direction. Mind you, I think the idea of a swamp-dwelling halfling is kind of cool, but it's not the kind of halflings the Realms have. The Realms has traditional halflings. Use any 2e lore, or most 3e lore and you'll have what you need. Especially check out the sourcebook Shining South (preferably 2e, though the 3e one isn't awful), which has a write-up on an entire nation of halflings - Lurien. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 19:55:38
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| Oh and there were those Kinders in another realm. However that was another realm. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 20:39:43
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The halfling change from 2E to 3E didn't, to my knowledge, include an in-game reason. Rather, the game designers used the Magic Television (i.e. It's Always Been This Way) approach to it.
It's my understanding TSR couldn't legally use "Hobbit" so they chose to use "Halfling," it's just that they kept the same look and feel of hobbits in the game until 3E came along and the designers decided (thankfully) that enough was enough. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2013 : 22:50:17
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3e did indeed change the Halfling, but in Realms we still had three subraces of Halfling:
Lightfoot - prone to wanderlust and a loose definition of property rights
Strongheart - while they are not Hobbits, this race still has the most similarity. Live in Halfling communities and prefer to remain outside the concern of the rest of the world, however, they are more than willing and capable of defending their communities.
Ghostwise - for some reason I always picture the Brownies from Willow when I'm talking about this group...this group is more or less exiled from the rest of the Halflings and live similarly to the Wild Elves...definitely the most aggressive and ruthless of the Halflings. This is possibly where the idea for swamp dwelling halflings came from... |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 03:29:47
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I actually like my halflings the way they were portrayed in AD&D and so mine are much like hobbits...in appearance and their docile ways.
However, I also like how the AD&D Halflings were somewhat militarily capable and could clean house against Goblins and Kobolds, while holding their own fairly well against larger races also.
That is why I ported a whole nation of them into my own personal Forgotten Realms:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16585&whichpage=1
My kids love playing Halflings too...so it works out pretty good for us.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 04:56:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It's my understanding TSR couldn't legally use "Hobbit" so they chose to use "Halfling," it's just that they kept the same look and feel of hobbits in the game until 3E came along and the designers decided (thankfully) that enough was enough.
Which is a bit odd, because "halfling" is also used in The Lord of the Rings. Not nearly as oft as "hobbit," but it's there enough to be noticeable. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 05:06:09
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| I've not researched the origins of the various words, but I would wager that Halfling is an older term used to describe various peoples in lore such as Hobbits & Kinder, but that Tolkien coined the name Hobbit for describing his particular type of halfling. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 05:44:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Oh and there were those Kinders in another realm. However that was another realm.
Makings fans hate something, long before drizzit came along.
Hipster Kinders |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 06:57:00
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I've always hated the name "halfling" because it's unavoidably insulting. There is simply no way to call someone "half a human" without being a complete jerk. "Halflings" would be constantly slighted by and eventually belligerent toward humans, in much the same way as real-life groups who feel slighted by others... they would not be tolerant and easygoing, the way halflings are "supposed to" be. But "hobbits" belongs to LotR and therefore isn't an option (from a creative angle, even ignoring the legal mumbo jumbo). In my opinion they need a new name ("hin" is a solid option) and an original creative cultural identity. That would leave DMs who like hobbits and/or kenders free to import them for their own campaigns while having a variety of standard D&D races available for everyone... including players who aren't fond of kenders or hobbits.
Edit: I think what I'm getting at is that even after the alleged attempt to make them less hobbit-like, they don't have a specific identity... D&D dwarves would be recognizable as dwarves no matter what you called them. The same is not true of halflings, if you're not describing them as hobbit-like. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 11 Aug 2013 06:59:59 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2013 : 12:52:27
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I never give halflings change.
They should get jobs. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 03:41:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I never give halflings change.
They should get jobs.
oooh so you mean that the one who just lifted your purse just now needs to get a job when he already excels at pocketing?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2013 : 12:47:23
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I believe neither the term hobbit nor the word halfling existed before Tolkien used them in his tales, published in the 1950s but written before that. Back then, halfling was a derogative term humans (and other "big races", like the uruk-hai) used to describe the hobbits.
Personally, I like having hobbit-like halflings in my game, just as I love having elves and dwarves, not worrying about them being creatures of myth, Tolkien-influenced or not (I still see a heavy influence of Tolkien's depiction in elves and dwarves of fantasy: if you think, in mythology those distinctions are quite blurred).
I still call the little ones "halflings", and in my game they call themselves halflings when speaking in the human tongue, because they don't worry about being insulted, actually. But maybe in their own languages they call themselves hobbits, or hin. And I like to have a more innocent, maybe even naive race showing that simple and not strong people can be among the greatest heroes.
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 12 Aug 2013 12:48:07 |
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Halfing change
