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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 13:52:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I prefer the Archfey solution because it is actual (and fitting) lore, unlike ''Ao writes stuff on his notepad and problems are solved''. Also being archfey would allow them to act more like ''leaders'' and inspirators and be a bit closer to their followers, which would fit them better IMO.
But I agree with you, anything logical would do the job.
I'm not cool with the idea of saying "these two that we previously told you were deities are actually archfey." |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 14:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I prefer the Archfey solution because it is actual (and fitting) lore, unlike ''Ao writes stuff on his notepad and problems are solved''. Also being archfey would allow them to act more like ''leaders'' and inspirators and be a bit closer to their followers, which would fit them better IMO.
But I agree with you, anything logical would do the job.
I'm not cool with the idea of saying "these two that we previously told you were deities are actually archfey."
The idea is that they became archfey because their ''divinity'' was used to remove that Balor curse from the drow. It still doesn't make that much sense (since that removal wasn't really needed by anyone, nor the curse had any impact on the lives of the drow who followed Eilistraee -the only ones freed from it-), but it is acceptable IMO (especially considering that the authors had to give a meaning to the out of character behaviour that LP events describe, which actually implies that the ML turned her back to the vast majority of the drow).
Also, I think that this concept is fitting because -as I said- the siblings would be able to be closer to their followers, which is appropriate for what these two characters stand for and want to achieve -IMO, ofc-.
But again, at this point I'd be fine with any soultion. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 17:33:05
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Bruce Cordell left. Not sure what that means.
Others - who are not 'in house' - have been ramping-up their side projects (to the point of starting their own companies.. even RAS).
The only thing I can read into all of that is that a lot of designers have decided NOT to put all there eggs in one basket. The question is, WHY? If the future of FR really looked all that bright (to these people who should be able to see what is coming), then why wouldn't they throw every effort they have behind FR/WotC, instead of pursuing other options?
I see a lot of discouragement, from both sides of the 'edition wars'; thats not good. I don't think anyone (in the know) is truly happy with the solution they are coming up with. Now, their own agenda (not casting negative aspirations here - EVRYONE has "their own agenda") may not really be the same thing as what the fans want (and over-generalization, I realize), so the Realms WE get may be to our liking, but not to the liking of those who have been working on the Realms for the past few years (anyone who has worked on 4e).
Since I see people on all sides 'running for the hills', I think that 5eFR may be more of a 'new vision' for The Realms, rather then a hodgepodge of 1e/2e/3e & 4e (in other words, instead of what Erik DeBie was shooting for in his thread - marrying together all the disparate lore - they intend more of a 'soft reboot' scenario). In order to make it more like the 'classic Realms', it means chucking-out a lot of the lore that has been written in the past few years (which would obviously rumple the feathers of those that designed for it). The 'Ao solution' is a bit heavy-handed, but something like that would be required to do what I propose here. Anything less and they really wouldn't need this uber-RSE (The Sundering 2.0).
Just IMO is all. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Aug 2013 17:36:03 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 18:19:07
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| Well, if WotC would get off their hind-ends and give us some of the info they PROMISED us maybe we would have a clearer idea of what the heck is going on. At this point all I want is Ed at the helm as I know he will do his best to create a workable solution. And personally, they could do a complete reset of the campaign and I'd be happy but I doubt they will...in which case I want lore that makes SENSE. I hate that some good writer/designers have left but we can't blame them (they have to make a living after all). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 18:21:07
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What's wrong with doing side projects? A freelancer can't rely (or should not, if he or she is smart) on just a single revenue stream from a single employer. Even if that was an option, that doesn't mean that the company would let them do everything they wanted -- I can't see WotC, for example, supporting a setting dealing heavily with laser-wielding cyborg psionicists.
So the most likely reason for people doing other things is either that they need more money, they want more than they're getting, they want a more secure income, and/or that they simply want to do more than just play in a single setting. There is nothing more to read into it without projecting your own thoughts into the mix.
Remember, Ed himself told me -- in a private email exchange, and without prompting -- that he was excited about what was coming for the Realms. If he is excited, that's enough for me. Especially when there isn't even enough info to speculate otherwise.
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 18:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Others - who are not 'in house' - have been ramping-up their side projects (to the point of starting their own companies.. even RAS).
The only thing I can read into all of that is that a lot of designers have decided NOT to put all there eggs in one basket. The question is, WHY? If the future of FR really looked all that bright (to these people who should be able to see what is coming), then why wouldn't they throw every effort they have behind FR/WotC, instead of pursuing other options?
Well, some designers may want to create their own game and world as a personal achievement, like when you make something actually good and are satisfied with your job (as the James brothers are doing with Red Aegis). If they see the opportunity to get some revenue while doing this, why not? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 21:15:38
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| <-< this REALLY was not the thread for that topic. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 23:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I prefer the Archfey solution because it is actual (and fitting) lore, unlike ''Ao writes stuff on his notepad and problems are solved''. Also being archfey would allow them to act more like ''leaders'' and inspirators and be a bit closer to their followers, which would fit them better IMO.
I had a longer better response, but the site just ate it.
That is precisely why I prefer the Ao hand wave solution. The sundering is already doing a soft reboot on the geography and the pantheon. I don't see the value in trying to make a tie into what is generally acknowledge as bad lore. I would rather take advantage of the fresh start. That way the devs can focus on providing new lore rather than constantly getting mired down defending the lead up/transition events. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1624 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 23:46:10
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Yes worshippers are not the only source of power for dieties there is also something to.do with how well thier portofolio is doing as well, soul energy in the case of the devil god and possibly other possiblities.
In Lloth's case I suspect it was a combination of purifying ritual and interplanae realigning. In other words each spider may have repersented her in a different world, all divided and drawn back together into a new whole. If this central Lloth has a presence where the fragmented Lloth's did, boosting her power in many worlds would be as simple as withdrawing her presence from worlds with little value or in which she is only a marginal player, and redirecting that extra power to worlds like Toril.
The surviving Spiders would be verisons of Lloth on other worlds that for some reason could not be merged into the new Lloth.
Also Lloth is worshipped by beings other then the Drow, such as verious spider peoples, followers of Mounder, the Drows slaves possibly others (Toril is a big world with many contients).
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 02:34:08
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| That's not a bad explanation Gyor but I don't see how withdrawing her presence from anywhere would be a good thing. Doing so would cause her to lose what power/energy she gets from that plane. I like the idea of the remaining spiders acting as her 'presence' on other worlds though... perhaps they are 'Demon Queen of Spiders' on those worlds where she is not accepted as a deity...not a bad pathway to power IMO. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 14:03:48
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
<-< this REALLY was not the thread for that topic.
My train of thought was inspired by the posts just previous to mine.
People are siting the 'distaste' of certain 4e designers for lore changes/omissions in the recent past, and I was pointing out that a lot of them are seeking other options at this time (thus strengthening the argument that they are dissatisfied with something).
And like I was trying to say (perhaps not very well), these things may be on a personal level, and have nothing to do with how good 5eFR is going to be - I still have very high hopes in that regard. I just think a lot of the folks who were there for 4e are not going to 'be around' for 5e, either for personal reasons (objections?), or because WotC is not interested in using them at this time (scapegoatism).
The stuff regarding the Drow and their pantheon all play into this - what happens on Toril does NOT stay on Toril. I've been saying that for years, but this is the first time I've applied it to the RW. If LP was as wildly unpopular as many of us feel it was, they may just decide to back-peddle over that series and render it pointless (which is part of this whole thing thats pissing-off a lot of writers/designers... IF that truly is the case)
I also feel some major announcements will be made at Gencon. At least, I would think there should be, after last year. They need to keep the buzz going, before folks start forgetting about D&D and FR. For instance, some lore regarding the Dark Seldarine should be in order; if Ed truly is in charge, why wouldn't they want to use two of his most popular creations? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Aug 2013 14:05:49 |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 05:49:35
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| Wonder what happen with moander's porfilio. Why didn't lolth get it. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 06:10:06
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| do you really want drow to be under the affect of rot? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 13:00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
Wonder what happen with moander's porfilio. Why didn't lolth get it.
Because Finder grabbed it and respun it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 20:38:04
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| Good point silverwolf! |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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jerrod
Learned Scribe
157 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 20:40:07
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| I didn't even think finder was still around after 3rd edition. |
I haven't been here in years but I used to be DARKFLAME MILLITHOR(DROW ARCHMAGE of wildmagic |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 21:43:35
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quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
I didn't even think finder was still around after 3rd edition.
The 4E list of FR deities was not comprehensive, and some deities simply weren't mentioned... Nobanion is a notable example, since he was mentioned in a web article, and then they went back and removed that reference later the same day the article was published. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 03:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by jerrod
I didn't even think finder was still around after 3rd edition.
The 4E list of FR deities was not comprehensive, and some deities simply weren't mentioned... Nobanion is a notable example, since he was mentioned in a web article, and then they went back and removed that reference later the same day the article was published.
Indeed.
The "Wailing Years" article saw Nobanion demoted from deity to exarch as a result of the removed reference. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Why is lloth a greater god?
