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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 00:39:32
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So we all know dwarves, humans *ick* elves . In your realms though, how exotic race wise, do you allow your players to get ?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 01:16:23
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I'd not be inclined to allow a monstrous race... If I did, though, the rest of the party would be "core" races, and the monstrous PC would have a hard time pretty much everywhere he or she went.
The closest I've come to playing a monstrous PC was my minotaur. I voluntarily assumed a 10% markup price on just about anything for him, because of his size (7'3"), decided he couldn't ride a horse (how many horses can carry a 500-pound dude?), and didn't worry about armor -- because his natural AC was better than most armor he could afford, when he started out. He later wound up with a chariot and a magical cloak, to help with the transport and armor issues. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 01:50:18
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I think it might be best to figure it out on reward versus effort.
Basically is the reward (fun, interesting stories and campaigns, Challenges we can all enjoy, etc) worth the effort (scaling and adapting the monsters to gameplay standards, the negative aspects of being a monster and truly roleplaying it in your world, etc). |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4469 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 01:57:57
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I tend to be a pretty liberal DM when it comes to 4th Edition, and part of it comes from the knowledge that most of the "monster" or "uncommon" races in the game that PCs can play are pretty well balanced. It becomes a question of "How does this fit into the game?" rather than "How can this break my game?" and I like that.
I tend to allow most available races because I can often times come up with unique, fun, and distinctive ways of incorporating them into the setting. Warforged, for example, came from the people of Lantan as the construction of Life Forges were a gift from Gond while he was there during the Time of Troubles. In 1479 DR, 75% of them call Aglarond home becaus the Simbol transported nearly most of their population there to escape Lantaneese persecution (warforged rebelled against the Lantanesse people in the 1370's DR) and as a vigilant army against the growing Undead threat from Thay.
Only a few races gave me a hard time in accepting on a thematic basis, Shardminds are a prime example (though a convincing concept is that a Kiira gained sentience and was able to add to itself, thus becoming a "Shardmind" in the FR universe).
I dunno, I don't feel the need to restrict my players to "core" or "common" races or have any sort of preconceptions as to how FR looks or feels when it comes to race distribution. A lot of people prefer a LARGE human presence and ANY non-human race (elf, dwarf, halfling, etc) are exotic and rare. So for them, the idea of Dragonborn, Tieflings, Aasimar, Genasi, Goliaths are SUPER-RARE and probably eyed with the strongest of scrutiny. I just don't view the Realms in that light so perhaps it's because of this that I'm more willing to accept more exotic races in the game. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 02:06:04
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I want to note that when I said "core" races, I meant pretty much those in the FRCS and Player's Guide to Faerūn -- though I would still expect most of the players to go for humans, elves, dwarves, etc, and not the rarer races like genasi.
I actually quite like genasi and such, but to me it strains credibility to have too many rare or exotic races in one group. The Rogue Dragons trilogy was a good example of that for me -- I like the trilogy, but I find it hard to believe that you'd have a half-golem, a song dragon, an avariel, an arctic dwarf, a regular human, and a halfling, all in one party. Three humans, a dwarf, and a half-golem, for example, is far more believable for me.
Also, I would obviously allow my spin on warforged, and I have no problem with shifters and changelings, either. I'd also allow the 3E dragonborn (not complaining about 4E dragonborn, I just don't like the way they were imported and I've not come up with something better). |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 04:31:03
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| Well it is something to said, that strange attracts strange. I would think that a half golemn would be more sympathetic to lets say a warforged or some of the others, or even an orc being about a half ogre. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 05:25:42
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Well it is something to said, that strange attracts strange. I would think that a half golemn would be more sympathetic to lets say a warforged or some of the others, or even an orc being about a half ogre.
Let's look at this from another perspective. I think it's been said that the personalities of warforged can be highly individualised. So I would expect that a particular warforged should tend to seek a level of camaraderie with a half-golem, rather than the other way around. Which could, I suppose, inject a sense of self-acknowledgement in the half-golem, should the core of it's animate personality allow for such conscious development. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 06:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Well it is something to said, that strange attracts strange. I would think that a half golemn would be more sympathetic to lets say a warforged or some of the others, or even an orc being about a half ogre.
Well, yeah, I can get that... But to again use the Rogue Dragons trilogy as an example: half-golems are incredibly rare in the Realms. Song dragons are pretty danged uncommon. Artic dwarves are practically unheard of outside of their homeland, and most elves don't even know about avariel, much less know one that's left home.
Sure, it makes sense that if you throw all these folks together, they'll form some sort of Mutual Oddballs Society.
But what are the odds of all of these incredibly rare types winding up in one area, so that they could form a group?
That's the point I was trying to make: any one or two of those types, in a group of the more common races, is readily believable. All of them together strains that credibility. So if you limit the available races -- or do something like say no more than one or two oddball races -- then you've got a group that seems like a more natural fit for the setting.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Jul 2013 06:54:14 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 15:48:54
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
So we all know dwarves, humans *ick* elves . In your realms though, how exotic race wise, do you allow your players to get ?
My general rule of thumb is anything in the PHB and Races of Faerun that has a level adjustment appropriate to the current game level. Most of my players recently are brand spanking new to the Realms and having them dive in as a Realms-specific race instead of a "normal PC race" allows me to introduce two things very easily: player vs character knowledge and world details.
It's easy to just work into description, "<Player Name> as a <race> from <region> you'd know this <information.> It doesn't single the PC out as a newbie, because I'm giving the same kind of line to the experienced players, just less detailed. In a group of mixed new and experienced players, it helps the newbies not feel like they're missing out because they haven't been playing for years.
I have allowed more "exotic" races play though. Like Wooly suggested, it's more believable in a party of "standard" PC's to have one oddball.
I had a player that could only make it now and then, so we designed a "NPC" PC for him that could come and go from the current story and be believable. He played a blink dog. (note, that thread is not mine, nor did I contribute. It's just the starting point for how we made it work.) Since one of the PC's already had Blink Dog as a chosen language, it made for an enjoyable session or two.
The hardest thing I've had with one or two unique monstrous races in a party of five or six is not leaving the spotlight on the oddball. Giving equal attention to the "normal" guys becomes difficult during encounters because, to my thinking, any NPC they encounter is going to go, "oh, more people... and what is that??" It just lends itself to distraction.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 15:49:22
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| sorry for the double post. Forum timeout issues are screwing with me. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 27 Jul 2013 15:54:28 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 21:21:30
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I let anything humanoid or human-like, even mind flayers
And if your starting point is in Sigil, any party is possible |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 21:33:46
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| I prefer my players stick to the core races, but if they have a good back-story, and it makes sense in terms of the rest of the campaign, then I would consider it. I would not allow something that would make that player 'the center of attention'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 21:56:16
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I generally stick to the races in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting & The Player's Guide to Faerun. If someone has an exceptionally awesome background story for a more exotic race then I may let them play it. NPC's will react to them according as they would to others of their race would. Cuts down on Drizzt clones when prices are double or more, you are suspected of everything, many inns, taverns, towns will not let you in, hunted by the Drow society that they left, ect......
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The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 22:48:44
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| I learned a harsh lesson on this the hard way. I once let a pair of players use a pixie and a chain-devil, and another who had a warforged all in the same group. big mistake. The pixie was no problem, and actually kind of entertaining, but for some reason had latched onto the chain-devil as a friend. The chain-devil's player (got exiled from Baator for unknown reasons and was LN) had trouble fitting in, and was hampered to a degree by the high LA. The REAL problem was the Warforged- he had a habit of breaking down random doors in A DWARVEN CITY just to see what was there. He nearly got run out of town for that. Another player wanted an incarnum-based race with the necrocarnum class (incarnum-using necromancer, basically) and DID get run out of the town he started in. All in all, NONE of those races worked out. I have since then decided that no race with more than a +2 LA is allowed in my groups, or MAYBE a +3 AT MOST- and then only IF it has a REALLY good reason for being there! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
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Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2013 : 23:04:27
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| I think the most exotic thing I have ever played is a unbodied, and I traded my ability to ghost through walls, so I could hold items and wear armor. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2013 : 00:33:44
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| Back in my gaming days we would regularly have characters from anything mentioned in the Complete Book of Humanoids. It sure made for some fun and interesting sessions. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2013 : 03:20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Another player wanted an incarnum-based race with the necrocarnum class (incarnum-using necromancer, basically) and DID get run out of the town he started in.
Is this necrocarnum class official D&D, or something homebrew, because I can't immediately find a reference for it here? |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2013 : 18:57:03
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In my book it ultimately comes down to the specific campaign and the setting. Some campaigns can handle unusual monsters as part of the PC group, others can't do it without breaking the internal logic within the setting.
Personally I'm currenly running a group consisting of a Silver Dragon (Medium sized, traveling in Human form all of the time), a Frost Giant, a Half-Ogre, a Half-Dragon, and an Elf. That, if anything, is something of a freakshow, but quite entertaining so far. And yes, I have pretty much mauled the LA rules to make this group just somewhat balanced against each other. People are having fun at any rate, which is the important part. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2013 : 23:17:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Another player wanted an incarnum-based race with the necrocarnum class (incarnum-using necromancer, basically) and DID get run out of the town he started in.
Is this necrocarnum class official D&D, or something homebrew, because I can't immediately find a reference for it here?
necrocarnate I think is what they meant, and I HATE incarnum, such a confusing ugly system of magical blah......
necrocarnate is known though for being a nasty bit of work, and a few loops in it to break the tiers, making it a one level dip, for nearly unlimited incarnum refill.
This breaks it down nicely
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129982 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 03:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
necrocarnate is known though for being a nasty bit of work, and a few loops in it to break the tiers, making it a one level dip, for nearly unlimited incarnum refill.
This breaks it down nicely
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129982
Much appreciated, silverwolfer.
Though, I usually make it a habit to run a class myself to determine my own thoughts on it -- rather than just accept what I read online about what others may say on it.
I see that as indicative of the fact that no two campaigns are ever truly the same -- and, as a result, the experiences of running these classes in varied campaign situations will likely result in differing opinions on how those classes can and will be used. |
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 05:48:58
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Another player wanted an incarnum-based race with the necrocarnum class (incarnum-using necromancer, basically) and DID get run out of the town he started in.
Is this necrocarnum class official D&D, or something homebrew, because I can't immediately find a reference for it here?
necrocarnate I think is what they meant, and I HATE incarnum, such a confusing ugly system of magical blah......
necrocarnate is known though for being a nasty bit of work, and a few loops in it to break the tiers, making it a one level dip, for nearly unlimited incarnum refill.
This breaks it down nicely
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129982
Yeah, that was it. He was playing an Azurin Incarnate/Necrocarnate It was one of the races/classes in the Magic of Incarnum book, and it was a complete game-breaker. The player BROKE the character AND the campaign IN THE VERY FIRST SESSION! After that, I banned anything from that book from ever entering my games again. After reading through the entire book, I realized that not only was it unbalanced, but it didn't fit into my game world at all. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 06:17:55
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
So we all know dwarves, humans *ick* elves . In your realms though, how exotic race wise, do you allow your players to get ?
I've let a player in my first 3.5 Realms campaign run a hobgoblin.
The hobgoblin was a prisoner freed from Manzesine (the mindflayer prison featured in Dungeon #94), who became a follower of one of the PC monks and eventually that PC's henchman.
As the campaign advanced I let the players run their henchmen in henchmen-only and mixed PC/henchmen adventures for a change of pace, when they wanted a break from their regular characters.
Other than that, once our campaign hit very high level/epic levels, spells like Shapechange and other polymorph-related spells and effects let the two wizard PCs be just about whatever they wanted. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 29 Jul 2013 06:20:06 |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 08:35:19
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| right now am fiddling with the idea of being a were-spider :S |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 12:50:19
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I've once played a lizardfolk, but it was on a Spelljammer game, and DragonLance also allows minotaurs, but there are cultural reasons for them both to be playable races in these settings, as there are thri-kreen in Dark Sun. In 2e, these races can be quite unbalacing, so you must be very careful about using them with the core races, since the game can be too easy for them or too challenging for the others.
Of course you can make an "oddball game", with a whole group of goblinoids, or a colony of a single race, just like the firbolg from the Moonshaes had their spotlight moment in one of the first novels in the Realms. But I usually do it only in short games.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Saxmilian
Learned Scribe
USA
157 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 13:17:24
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Im willing to allow anything played in my game though sometimes it gets difficult when one player wants to run a vampire-fighter and the other a Mindflayer. My one player (Human or elf nothing else! Bless her heart) generally helps me talk the others out of it. We had a female Minotaur Druid that was made, killed, made again, and gain and again and again...and now that that player has stopped playing everyone misses and talks over (Talk about a tank!)Lizard-folk, goblin, full-blooded orc warriors, Ogres and even a silver dragon.
I think that to tell someone they cant play something is to stifle their creativity, but at the same time, remind them that they may ruin everyone elses idea of fun if they go too-powerhouse.
The challenges make it fun though, and like many said, players will often get frustrated with the limitations, (Sorry...uh whatever you are, but ye stand nearly ten feet tall and I just don't room in my inn for someone with wings bigger than my wagon. Nope, sorry but ye can bunk in the barn with the horses...though they seem to get spooked by you, so I'm gonna have to charge you a few extra gold)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 13:51:30
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I don't think that telling someone that a particular option isn't available is something that stifles creativity. Just because someone can't be a dragon, for example, that doesn't rule out a lot of other options -- like a half-dragon, for example.
So losing option A doesn't preclude going for options B-Z. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1602 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 19:38:56
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| I also see a challenge to creativity in creating unique and deep characters within the "normal" - or "core" - PC options. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 20:28:50
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| Not hard creating such things, but mechanically , the core stuff can get boring after 10 years |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4469 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2013 : 21:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Not hard creating such things, but mechanically , the core stuff can get boring after 10 years
^ This.
Really I think most people play right from the PHB so most commonly we're going to see Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Half-Orc, etc. Sometimes people get bored with those options, having played them time and time again. Sometimes they invision a Raging brute (Goliath Barbarian), a shadowy stalker (Shadar-kai Assassin), a mysterious noble (Dhampir Warlord), or a Draconic Explorer (Dragonborn Ranger). These options, rather than being the mainstay "always" acceptable option are often thrown in every once in a while where the DM permits it to add spice or exotic flavor.
Currently my friend is running us through the Heroic tier adventure path for 4E (Keep on the Shadowfell, Thunderspire Labrynth, Pyramid of Shadows) with conversions to the Forgotten Realms and the party is comprised of a Drow Hexblade, Air Genasi Warlord/Wizard, a Shadar-Kai Berserker, a Revenant Elementalist, a Human Bladesinger (not my campaign but still rankles me on a Lore level) and a Human Avenger of Torm. Suffice to say we're not normal but it's worked to our advantage with the Shadar-Kai and Drow using us as "Prisoners" to get into gated areas of the dungeons led by Orcs. The orcs would see them, think they're evil then think that their Commanders paid them as mercenaries. We'd then Trojan Horse them for suprise rounds.
Good times |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2013 : 03:27:02
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Not hard creating such things, but mechanically , the core stuff can get boring after 10 years
Do you define "core stuff" as just the races detailed in the PHB? Or the various supplementary books that offer new core races as well? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2013 : 03:51:36
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3.5 PHB , races of faerun, and campaign setting guide.
I like to go into the various races of (whatever) lets me really expand my exposure My favorite is using raptoreans as a replacement for winged elves. |
Edited by - silverwolfer on 30 Jul 2013 03:55:43 |
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How monstrous a race would you let your playersbe
