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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 17:57:05
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I think you have an excellent analysis here, Dark Wizard.
Speaking more generally, I think it's true that a lot of the "round-and-round" negativity would be massively reduced if certain people didn't act like they needed to constantly defend against negative opinions when they are expressed. Rather than taking the champion/defender role, it would be far better if certain people just let those negative opinions pass by without additional comment.
Instead of thinking of fellow fans as complex individuals all with their own individual tastes and hopes for the future, and just letting people state their opinions openly, any hint of negativity is often jumped on immediately and focused upon intently (e.g. "censor it!" or "exile all of these people to a specific channel or thread!"). Rather than reducing negativity, they're creating and enhancing the negative atmosphere they are railing against.
Even if well-intentioned, taking up a banner and railing against fellow fans only serves to deepen the divide.
One thing I've seen repeatedly is the claim, "all this negativity drives away fans" or that it somehow causes people new to the Realms to suddenly turn away. But how does it make any sense to rail against an actual fan for sharing a negative opinion in order to defend the Realms for a hypothetical fan that may not exist at all?
If you love any part of the Realms, or any edition, you're going to have some strong opinions about things you like AND about things you think are problematic. There were problems in 2E. There were problems in 3E. There are problems with 4E. Pointing out problems and discussing them isn't negative - it's an attempt to make the Realms more positive and enjoyable in the future. But you can't do anything about those problems if they aren't discussed openly. Shutting people down for their opinions is just trollish behavior, and helps no one. Ultimately, it hurts the Realms because problems will continue to remain as problems rather than get fixed.
So what is a person to do, if they don't agree with someone's negative opinion? Simply state that you disagree, and move on. Don't shine a torch on it and poke at it repeatedly for multiple pages, using all sorts of colorful and emotional language. Doing that turns it into a heated emotional environment and attracts even more trolls, completely polarizing any prior discussion.
Real, honest discussion requires an atmosphere where people aren't immediately attacked by champion-defenders on either end. If people still picture themselves as champion-defenders, then they're going to constantly prime themselves to go looking for things to fight against. We need to all remember that everyone here has a complex set of opinions about the Realms that have been formed over years, perhaps decades, of experience and participation in the Realms.
In general, it's best to act like people are complex, treat them with respect even if you disagree with them, rather than pulling out your sword and becoming a champion-defender. Well... unless you want to be a troll, and take pride in being a troll. The sad thing about trolls, though, is that they're -always- on the outside looking in, no matter their intent. And that's just sad.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 06 Aug 2013 18:07:49 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 18:05:43
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Therise has it exactly right, at least towards me. That is why I drifted away from this site for awhile or only went to lurking. Heck, even at the last Gencon I went to I was told to my face that I was a traitor since I had no interest in supporting the changes to FR during 4e. So be it, I'll be a traitor than but you know what? I don't like those changes and it's my opinion and I stuck with it even now.
Still, there's this constant attitude that anything bad about those changes should be jumped on and the person should be told to not talk about how they may or may not feel about the changes. That is what drove many people away from Candlekeep during the years that 4e was announced. And yes, even some of the authors and game designers had/have that attitude. I've seen it in person because those that called me a traitor are some of those authors and game designers.
Furthermore, there's plenty in 2e and 3e that I didn't care for either. It's funny though, the same people still want to jump on people and tell them that they are wrong and they've been here since 3e. By now I would think that they would realize that doing what they do only makes threads turn into arguments. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 06 Aug 2013 18:31:47 |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2013 : 21:07:17
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| Very well said indeed... |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 05:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Utterly ridiculous notion you wrote above.
And I do not mean making Jermemy or Diffan a moderator.
While I'd be greatly honored with such an offer (and a bit flabbergasted) I'd have to respectfully decline. Sage and Wooly do a good job IMO on most of the topics that come through here. There are always going to be times where people disagree on a myrid of topics about the Realms. It has lots of history and lore and there are certain elements people love and despise based on personal preference and taste.
I admit that most of the 4E changes were pretty massive and sweeping. Some (many or most, even) view this as a horrible problem and they hate it. Others, including myself, take what's good about the changes and the implements they brought and work with it to make a better game for us to play with. So I am sympathetic to their concerns when voiced approprately. But most people who complain about the changes want or have no desire to make them better or start up ways that bend them to their will, they just complain and hate and then leave it at that. It's what I call drive-by Trolling. Its that kind of stuff that compels me to refute, argue, and defend elements and versions that I enjoy because the other "side" leaves no room for compromise or discourse. This is, IMO, the true heart of the matter.
If someone loves the Realms, regardless of edition, then they're no traitor. It's disappointing to a degree, IMO, that one cannot support a setting they inherently like but disagree with changes made to the point of abandoning said setting but they're enjoyment of the setting is still there, just suppressed. On the flip side I have been called many numerous things because I enjoy quite a few changes made to the Realms and people question if I really liked it in the first place. It's just as insulting and usually incites a counter-argument and then all hell breaks loose and threads are closed.
Yes, I like many of the 4E changes to the Realms. I don't think that makes me a UN-Realms fan because I liked the Realms before the changes too. I just feel that the changes made the setting better in many ways. The question is, who cares? So I like Earthmotes, and Returned Abeir/Akanûl/Tymanther and the toning down on the EPIC level NPCs and the different faces of the Gods. To me, that makes the game and setting MORE interesting than reprinted material set a score of years down the road where little things have changed. I'd like to see more of this stuff supported and flow into the setting for D&D:Next and I'd like more elements that maintain my curiosity in these aspects to promote me to continue playing in the (soon to be Current) Realms.
Basically, people can disagree and continue to remain civil and maintain an understanding that at the end of the day we're still Realms fans. People could try to be less antagonistic when detailing their dislikes AND people shouldn't jump the gun to defend every perceived slight. I'm known a lot for the latter but it's a work in progress. Mostly now I just shrug off insults or cheap shots at the 4E setting because I know at my table, things are a LOT of fun and it's what works. To me, that's all I need. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Diffan on 07 Aug 2013 05:55:29 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 07:13:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Utterly ridiculous notion you wrote above.
And I do not mean making Jermemy or Diffan a moderator.
While I'd be greatly honored with such an offer...
-SNIP-
...now I just shrug off insults or cheap shots at the 4E setting because I know at my table, things are a LOT of fun and it's what works. To me, that's all I need.
If I may just interject here: This post says all I need to know as to why you'd make a good moderator, despite your refusal of the idea. I don't ever recall seeing you 'call people out' - I've seen you get frustrated, sure, but you're no different in that regard from anyone else here. You've never claimed (to my memory) that someone was 'disrespecting a designer' or some such poppycock, and I've come away from these boards with more than one good idea courtesy of your suggestions.
Your defense of Fourth Edition has been almost unique in its positive tone, and was one of the few reasons I stopped viewing it as the complete monstrosity my initial reaction took it to be (though I am admittedly happy about 5th Edition). Credit where credit is due. Just sayin'.
- OMH |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 10:48:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
<snip> By now I would think that they would realize that doing what they do only makes threads turn into arguments.
{Insert Applause Smiley} |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 18:40:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Utterly ridiculous notion you wrote above.
And I do not mean making Jermemy or Diffan a moderator.
While I'd be greatly honored with such an offer...
-SNIP-
...now I just shrug off insults or cheap shots at the 4E setting because I know at my table, things are a LOT of fun and it's what works. To me, that's all I need.
If I may just interject here: This post says all I need to know as to why you'd make a good moderator, despite your refusal of the idea. I don't ever recall seeing you 'call people out' - I've seen you get frustrated, sure, but you're no different in that regard from anyone else here. You've never claimed (to my memory) that someone was 'disrespecting a designer' or some such poppycock, and I've come away from these boards with more than one good idea courtesy of your suggestions.
Your defense of Fourth Edition has been almost unique in its positive tone, and was one of the few reasons I stopped viewing it as the complete monstrosity my initial reaction took it to be (though I am admittedly happy about 5th Edition). Credit where credit is due. Just sayin'.
- OMH
I have to agree. I have been on the opposite side of Diffan's preferences on Paizo and WOTC as well, yet he really was able to change my opinion to tolerance if not adoption of the spell plague realms. It made me more cognizant about the changes and forced me to defend rationally why I do not like the 4e realms, other than it changed. Which I think I have been pretty good about. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 20:55:25
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OMH and Mournblade, thanks for the kind words. It makes me happy to know my defense of the post-Spellplague Realms was not in vain and that people kept an open mind to ideas and suggestions I made in making this a better setting. Obviously disagreements will still arise and it's not about tamping them down or turning a deaf ear to those concerns. The best way, IMO, to handle these critiques is to acknowledge them and offer suggestions on altering the world for personal use and incorporate as much accepted lore as one desires to make the game better.
And hopefully this will carry on to the Sundering and post-sundered Realms. God knows I'll have my hands full incorporating the "then" existing lore into my 4E games and I'll need help in that regard. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 21:40:13
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That's something I can respect. Too many people on both sides of the edition debate seem to think shouting down the other side is the way to "win".
I can greatly respect someone who will reasonably discuss differences, as opposed to resorting to personal attacks. It doesn't matter if it's D&D editions, or fave fast food chains, or politics, or the endless debate between Star Wars fans and the Trekkies who won't admit Star Wars is superior (  ) -- as long as people can discuss it reasonably, I've got no problem with either side, regardless of my own views.
Diffan is probably the 4E expert here, and he's obviously a dedicated fan of the 4E Realms. And though I rarely agree with his views, I've not had any reason to come into conflict with him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2013 : 23:24:11
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Would also like to join in on the pile on of back pats for Diffan and his generally constructive approach towards Realms discussion including 4E elements.
While I dislike much of 4E Realms, but I don't recall disliking Diffan's post discussing them, those I've read I found interesting. I feel those are the sorts of posts that would help bridge many fans like myself into seeing 4E Realms in the light of potential rather than an unappealing separate setting. Likewise, although I don't agree with JG on this particular thread topic, I feel he asks good questions in the Ask Ed forum (and other designers/authors in their respective threads) and I find some of his Realmslore discussion to be worthwhile contributions to overall Realms discussion.
To highlight my point about there always being a level of negativity surrounding the Realms, skim this thread on the WotC D&D Next General forums: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/30027769/The_Realms,_Reborn-_RA_Salvatore_Interview?pg=1
I'd like to believe we've been rather civil compared to the blunt hatred some hold for the Realms, in any incarnation. WotC has nothing to gain by marketing the Realms to such folks, they've adamantly stated their opinion as such and no amount of catering or even evidence to the contrary will sway them. Some actively read comments according to their own context in order to perpetuate their skewed view of the setting and its contributors. I personally find the inaccurate negative motives some anti-Realms posters attributed to the two mentioned Realms contributors to appear to be frightening breaks from the reality as expressed in a variety of sources.
The anti-fan doesn't matter in the long run as long as the supportive fanbase is large enough. They can call us idiots for liking the Realms all they want, I'm not hanging out with them on a regular basis. If this many Realms fans are "wrong", being "right" is of limited consideration.
As D&D Next comes into the fore, some diehard fans of this or that or persons of other interests will feel slighted and resort to the same negativity. To a faction of 4E Realms fans, any hint of pre-4E Realms is a grave insult to progress. To some D&D players anything Realms branded is a dire affront to them. WotC may benefit by marketing different products to them.
Hopefully with Encounters and modules supporting 3.5E, 4E, and Next, much of this will be mitigated, but an element will always feel disenfranchised due to edition roll over. The key is to make the 5E Realms appeal to enough players and fans so as to build a strong and diverse community. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 03:08:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Utterly ridiculous notion you wrote above.
And I do not mean making Jermemy or Diffan a moderator.
While I'd be greatly honored with such an offer...
-SNIP-
...now I just shrug off insults or cheap shots at the 4E setting because I know at my table, things are a LOT of fun and it's what works. To me, that's all I need.
If I may just interject here: This post says all I need to know as to why you'd make a good moderator, despite your refusal of the idea. I don't ever recall seeing you 'call people out' - I've seen you get frustrated, sure, but you're no different in that regard from anyone else here. You've never claimed (to my memory) that someone was 'disrespecting a designer' or some such poppycock, and I've come away from these boards with more than one good idea courtesy of your suggestions.
Your defense of Fourth Edition has been almost unique in its positive tone, and was one of the few reasons I stopped viewing it as the complete monstrosity my initial reaction took it to be (though I am admittedly happy about 5th Edition). Credit where credit is due. Just sayin'.
- OMH
Diffan has often been the voice of reason on many a contentious issue here at Candlekeep.
I'd like to think that if we were to expand the number of Moderators [though, at present, it's hardly a necessity given the small number of regular scribes here {and the fact that both Wooly and I are often either here together or separately most times of a single day to cover the daily amount of posts made}], Diffan would be a name I'd put forward for consideration. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 04:14:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Diffan would be a name I'd put forward for consideration.
THIS
Diffan would be an excellent addition to Candlekeep as a moderator. His tone and style are pretty close to perfect, and he's not afraid to call BS when he sees it, which I like very much.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2013 : 12:48:54
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| As much as Diffan and I have disagreed in the past, it's never been personal, only professional (or amateurish ). And I'd have to agree that he'd make an excellent moderator. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 08 Aug 2013 12:49:24 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 02:30:51
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| Wow....I'm quite speechless. Thanks to everyone for the sentiments. Were Wooly or Sage to approach me in the advent of an moderator position, I'd be hard pressed to say no and most likey would accept it graceously considering the thoughts of those who've posted above. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 02:43:05
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| <-< , I would think that we are not a bad enough community that we NEEDED another moderator. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 03:42:03
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
<-< , I would think that we are not a bad enough community that we NEEDED another moderator.
At one point, Candlekeep actually had four Moderators. But that was during the time of increased traffic, and still among the days of 3.5e.
Unfortunately, both conflicts between individual members, along with time restraints, regretfully forced two of the Moderators to stand down from active service.
Nowadays... it's just Wooly and myself. And Alaundo, when he checks in!  The decreased activity over the years has reduced the need for another Moderator. Though, I suspect, once 5e comes into play, we might see either new or long-time Realms fans returning to Candlekeep, as news of what goodies the new edition has brought to our favourite gaming world, spreads around the web! That could necessitate the need for another Moderator as a result. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 04:52:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
<-< , I would think that we are not a bad enough community that we NEEDED another moderator.
Nowadays... it's just Wooly and myself. And Alaundo, when he checks in! The decreased activity over the years has reduced the need for another Moderator. Though, I suspect, once 5e comes into play, we might see either new or long-time Realms fans returning to Candlekeep, as news of what goodies the new edition has brought to our favourite gaming world, spreads around the web! That could necessitate the need for another Moderator as a result.
Speaking of Alaundo, any word on those custom portraits? Last I check in April he was busy. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2013 : 05:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
<-< , I would think that we are not a bad enough community that we NEEDED another moderator.
Nowadays... it's just Wooly and myself. And Alaundo, when he checks in! The decreased activity over the years has reduced the need for another Moderator. Though, I suspect, once 5e comes into play, we might see either new or long-time Realms fans returning to Candlekeep, as news of what goodies the new edition has brought to our favourite gaming world, spreads around the web! That could necessitate the need for another Moderator as a result.
Speaking of Alaundo, any word on those custom portraits? Last I check in April he was busy.
I'll contact Alaundo again on this. It might simply have been forgotten. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 16:37:34
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I remember an exchange of PMs with a mod a few years back when the 4E-related posts were particularly toxic and I suggested having a separate 4E forum. 4E is effectively its own version of FR and, if it has its own forum, it's less likely to attract the diehard haters.
Also, the forums are horribly organised (sorry, that's being blunt... but truthful) and many of the forums overlap. It would make sense to reduce the number of forums for the sake of clarity and, with fewer forums, having a 4E-dedicated forum would still not represent a net increase in the number of forums.
Anyway, the 4E horse has bolted. But it might be worth considering a new 5E forum just in case (in conjunction with a logical forum reconfiguration - assuming this can be done without the long-promised but never seen Candlekeep 2.0). After all, there are a lot of people who don't like R A Salvatore's work and his fingerprints on the post-Sundering Realms - notwithstanding Ed's positive presence - might result in as much negativety being express toward the 5E version as happened with the 4E version. (Although one thing we do know is that map will be better... simply because it cannot be any worse.)
Maybe it's best to be prepared? |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 04:50:28
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
<-< , I would think that we are not a bad enough community that we NEEDED another moderator.
I suspect, once 5e comes into play, we might see either new or long-time Realms fans returning to Candlekeep, as news of what goodies the new edition has brought to our favourite gaming world, spreads around the web! That could necessitate the need for another Moderator as a result.
I hope you're confidence is warranted. Unfortunately, I've lost any confidence in the WOTC / FR relationship and am afraid 5th E will end up being more of the same, no matter how much Ed works to bring back his realms. If that happens I will fade away again and I think many others will as well. |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 23:40:04
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If I may bring an outsider's (meaning relative newbie to the Realms) perspective: the rift created by 4E seems ridiculous. There's nothing to stop players from continuing campaigns in whatever edition is their preference. In terms of reaching a lore shortage for, say, 3.5 E, you could look to what 4E offers and devise something middle of the road for a 3.6E. Or simply ignore what's given for your hypothetical lore in 4E and take the setting in a direction that feels natural for you.
However, I recognize the amount of love, blood, sweat, and tears that Ed has poured into the Realms over the years. He's created a vast, fantastic canvas for us. It seems a shame to let 4E ruin that, which seems to be what's happened if you have people calling you "a traitor" for not supporting 4E.
Personally, I enjoy the changes to the realms. I've never been the biggest fan of the Tolkienesque elements of fantasy. So the dragonborn, genasi, tieflings, and shades are a welcome change. A greater focus on these races, with less of a gloom and doom aesthetic, makes for a riveting campaign world. In my opinion, of course. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2013 : 23:58:57
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It has more to do with the story that is the Realms, rather then the RPG setting.
The story that most of here were following ended... rather abruptly, and without any sort of closure. This is why most of us no longer wish to follow the new story - its not the story we were fans of.
As for the RPG setting, YES, that is still a functional RPG... swimming in a sea of rather excellent RPG settings ATM. I will give the 5e rules and setting a chance, because I still pay the game.
As for the story that is The Forgotten Realms, I've pretty-much lost interest. I tried to reinvigorate that interest today, but I had a rather bad time of it at the bookstore, and thats a tale for another thread. My Realms - the one I cared about - died with the century timejump. Maybe I can get interested in the new Realms, but most likely I won't (because I could be disappointed again when the next iteration rolls around). I'll still purchase good game material, but I doubt I'll be reading any more FR novels in the near future.
And THAT is why 'the rift' is not really all that ridiculous to most of us. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Nov 2013 00:35:27 |
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BlackAce
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 01:05:02
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Like Markustay, the biggest kicker for me was the loss of so many characters or plots with the time jump. It was obviously done to jettison so much of the character baggage the Realms had accrued up until then. Unfortunately it appears to have sailed over certain designers heads that it was exactly that rich vein of characters that was making the Realms so popular. Essentially, the baby was thrown out with the bath water. One may as well homebrew an alternative Realms as jump forward a century and that's exactly what many people have done... to the detriment of WotC's bottom line, hence the U turn with Next.
Sadly I think it's probably too late for the Realms to regain its former popularity. Unless there is lots of timeline as well as edition neutral product put out, there's just not enough incentive to buy new source books or keep a DDI subscription. While some will argue I'm being too cynical, frankly I prefer pleasant surprises to horrible disappointments, so it'll be up to Wizards to prove me wrong. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 07:58:01
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A complaint I hear now and then is that it's annoying to be relentlessly positive, which is primarily why I am relentlessly positive about the Realms.
But I'm also positive because I believe the Realms has nowhere to go but up.
One of the effects of 4E on the Realms has been to set the bar low for vis-a-vis expectations and popularity. So despite some real gems like the "Neverwinter Campaign Setting" and the "Eye on the Realms" series of articles in Dragon, the Realms isn't as highly regarded as it once was.
This means people have moved on/turned away from the setting, but it doesn't follow that those same people need to be brought back for the setting to be popular again.*
On the contrary, a relative scarcity of fans means there is plenty of room for the Realms to become popular again, this time with a new generation of fans that will, I'm confident, come to value in the Realms the very same things we came to enjoy and appreciate some 27 or so years ago when the Old Grey Box was released.
You see hints of that old style in the free to read (at last count 59 in total) Forging the Realms articles posted to the WotC website. You also see it in books like "Ed Greenwood Presents: Elminster's Forgotten Realms."
Yes there will always be that element that pushes the meme that it's cool to hate on the Forgotten Realms, but I think young gamers know good fun when they see it and will, if D&D Next takes off, find the Realms to be the best place to set their campaigns.
*Though I'm sure WotC would be quite happy if they came along for the ride. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2013 : 11:26:50
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| It is hard to dismiss the post sundering realms before they are revealed. Even with two of the books out, we don't really have a clear picture of what FR will look like at the end of the event. In fact, I think from a gaming perspective it will be difficult to pass judgement until a campaign supplement is published. I view it as a chance for a new starting point rather than a way to continue an existing campaign. My plan is to look at the finished project and decide if I find that world worth adopting for my own campaign ideas. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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A State of Affairs for discussing the 4e Realms...
