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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:18:08
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| Np, I've just deleted the post. Sorry for the misunderstanding. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:20:23
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All I know is that on most forums, BraceLearned Scribe would have been banned three accounts ago for trolling and further infractions (i.e. creating multiple accounts to continue trolling) would have resulted in a ban on his IP address and email accounts. In my opinion, Sage and Wooly are being incredibly gracious in letting him continue posting here, regardless of his knowledge of Realmslore. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Learned Scribe
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:28:45
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Ashe, it is impossible to ban me.
(And my knowledge of Realmslore is of the highest caliber.) |
Edited by - Learned Scribe on 01 Aug 2013 15:31:25 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:35:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
All I know is that on most forums, BraceLearned Scribe would have been banned three accounts ago for trolling and further infractions (i.e. creating multiple accounts to continue trolling) would have resulted in a ban on his IP address and email accounts. In my opinion, Sage and Wooly are being incredibly gracious in letting him continue posting here, regardless of his knowledge of Realmslore.
I'm hoping that new strategies will be developed soon enough to counter the antics of repeat problematic scribes.
I'll be talking them over with Alaundo in the meantime. It's a little technique I picked up from another board I used to moderate. I think it should be easy enough to implement into the Snitz Forum Software. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:45:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
All I know is that on most forums, BraceLearned Scribe would have been banned three accounts ago for trolling and further infractions (i.e. creating multiple accounts to continue trolling) would have resulted in a ban on his IP address and email accounts. In my opinion, Sage and Wooly are being incredibly gracious in letting him continue posting here, regardless of his knowledge of Realmslore.
I'm hoping that new strategies will be developed soon enough to counter the antics of repeat problematic scribes.
I'll be talking them over with Alaundo in the meantime. It's a little technique I picked up from another board I used to moderate. I think it should be easy enough to implement into the Snitz Forum Software.
I would actually argue against permanently banning any of these "problematic scribes" as you've labelled them.
Not because I'm interested in anything they have to add to this community, but because their very antics are proof enough of how wrong they actually are about what they claim about the edition-wars at Candlekeep.
The true agenda of The Hidden Brace is clear enough for all those with a mind toward cooperation rather than antagonism. And the number of members in this thread who are starting to see that, again, shows how weak The Hidden Brace's so-called proofs have become.
So just let them keep spouting spurious claims which are now, as I've learned in my discussions in this thread, unsupported by any definitive proofs. We can all see these problematic members for what they really are. |
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Learned Scribe
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:45:38
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Classic The Sage:
Starts a thread.
Doesn't like the opinions expressed.
Works to ban the offending opinionator. |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 15:54:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Doesn't like the opinions expressed.
You're not expressing opinions. You're working an agenda because you feel you've been unfairly treated in the past.
Again, I'd ask for proof of where The Sage said he didn't like the "opinions" you expressed. You know, that nagging little thing again... proof. PROVE IT!
quote:
Works to ban the offending opinionator.
Alaundo has the final say on bannings (as I've been told in previous chats about members who cause problems) and can overrule the Moderators if he feels any bias or ill-treatment of a member on behalf of the Mods has occurred.
So, again, you're incorrect. Spouting claims without the proper facts. That's really all you're contributing here. |
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
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Learned Scribe
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 16:23:29
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| Incorrect, D-Brane. I have expressed many opinions in this thread, as is clearly evidenced by even a cursory review. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 16:43:44
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Opinions is the correct word. And nothing else have been produced until now.
On the other hand it seems like you are doing a good job in bringing forth a lot of people who will praise the mods. It looks like you will have to fight an up-hill battle here. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 17:15:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Incorrect, D-Brane. I have expressed many opinions in this thread, as is clearly evidenced by even a cursory review.
Hmmm, so I guess we can ignore this statement, then:
quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
All of my claims have been proven to the most rigorous standard.
You yourself are admitting that you have no proof of anything and that this is all just your opinion.
Of course, that was already obvious to everyone, but at least you admit it, now.
quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Ashe, it is impossible to ban me.
Nope. The problem is keeping you banned. I'm beginning to suspect that getting banned is some sort of game with you.
quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
(And my knowledge of Realmslore is of the highest caliber.)
By your own admission, this is your opinion.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 17:20:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Incorrect. You are being deceptive by narrowing the definition of "printed" material to that content which is available on paper; the majority (the VAST majority) of Realms content published after 2007 (i.e. the last six years) is digital content.
You must be redefining "majority", since a stack of books (one of which covers the whole setting, not just a small chunk of it) contains a lot more info than some web articles.
Of course, redefining things to suit your viewpoint is obviously one of the few things you excel at.
And I'll also consider this to be your opinion. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Aug 2013 17:21:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 17:39:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
(And my knowledge of Realmslore is of the highest caliber.)
Hey, I've got a brilliant idea! If your knowledge of Realmslore is so great, why don't you participate in discussions on Realmslore? This is a Realmslore forum, after all.
Or did you sign up just to air your baseless grievances on myself, Sage, and anyone else who doesn't care for the 4E Realms?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 18:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Ashe, it is impossible to ban me.
Nope. The problem is keeping you banned. I'm beginning to suspect that getting banned is some sort of game with you.
We have those types of people on the forums I moderate. Calling them out for what they are usually enough, but some (Frank Trollman comes to mind) look at their bannings as a badge of proving how their paranoia is justified. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 19:25:03
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| LOL. All I can say is this thread made me laugh so hard. Poor Sage and Wooly, I feel for you guys since I do sometimes missing being one of the five mods we used to have. Good times, indeed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 21:21:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
LOL. All I can say is this thread made me laugh so hard. Poor Sage and Wooly, I feel for you guys since I do sometimes missing being one of the five mods we used to have. Good times, indeed.
I moderate two sites, the one site I very much followed the rules and it upset users, that moderation has dropped back to a level of disruption or forbidden conduct by the host. The other site moderation is even lighter then what candlekeep has, spammers or excessive abuse could be only reason for moderation action.
Moderation as a whole is interesting. Depending on the code a user can be banned only, however I have had access to IP blocking which clearly would block a user no matter what screen name was used.
There are downsides to blocking IPs, at one point I blocked maybe 1/3 of AOL users because of one person, using a regional AOL posting IP. Also there are ways to post though different IPs some not even paid for. There was one attack that I blocked something like 50 IPs because of one user. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2013 : 22:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
LOL. All I can say is this thread made me laugh so hard. Poor Sage and Wooly, I feel for you guys since I do sometimes missing being one of the five mods we used to have. Good times, indeed.
Meh, Learnie is being more amusing than irritating.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Aug 2013 22:34:40 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 02:40:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
LOL. All I can say is this thread made me laugh so hard. Poor Sage and Wooly, I feel for you guys since I do sometimes missing being one of the five mods we used to have. Good times, indeed.
Thanks, Kuje.
I know how much of a hard time you yourself had here when Moderating -- but the good times outweigh the bad, I think. Even now, particularly, it's increasingly obvious just how shallow some disruptive agitators, have become. They largely tend to do more work to disarm their "championed" cause than any mere dictates of a site's Code of Conduct. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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D-brane
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
140 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 02:56:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Learned Scribe
Incorrect, D-Brane. I have expressed many opinions in this thread, as is clearly evidenced by even a cursory review.
Opinions allow for the possibility of considering other viewpoints after the input of fresh perspectives and competing opinions.
You closed that door already when you said your statements in this thread were backed by the most "rigorous (and still to my knowledge, largely undefined) standard". Which you seem to keep shifting every day when it offers convenient support for your agenda here. |
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." |
Edited by - D-brane on 02 Aug 2013 02:59:40 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 03:21:34
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Haven't been following the fanbase recently, but where is the hotbed of 4E Realms activity?
Maybe we need a massive influx of 4E Realms fans speaking positively of the setting (and not dismissively of the Old REalms) to help build an integrated community. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 08:03:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Haven't been following the fanbase recently, but where is the hotbed of 4E Realms activity?
Currently?
I'd say the Neverwinter servers and the remnants of the LFR Community.
Perhaps if Candlekeep had reached out to the LFR folks some years back when they were more active, maybe Candlekeep could have helped guide and assist in their adventure design, and acted as a supplement to the activity on the WotC forums.
Who knows...maybe Candlekeep did reach out and I just never saw it.
Likewise, had Candlekeep managed to release a Candlekeep Compendium that included the 4E Realms, perhaps that would've gotten the ball rolling too.
But that's all in the past.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
Maybe we need a massive influx of 4E Realms fans speaking positively of the setting (and not dismissively of the Old Realms) to help build an integrated community.
I'll settle for a massive influx of Realms fans that speak positively of the Realms.
As long as someone's here to have fun and he or she doesn't make bashing some part of the Realms a first priority, it doesn't matter what edition(s) that person likes.
Basically: have fun; don't be a jerk. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 10:01:13
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| Agreed...but everyone is entitled to their opinions... |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 13:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Likewise, had Candlekeep managed to release a Candlekeep Compendium that included the 4E Realms, perhaps that would've gotten the ball rolling too.
To be honest, it wasn't from lack of trying. It had more to do with whether or not they would be breaking copyright or not and the lack of clear focus from WotC/Hasbro on the matter. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 16:39:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
As long as someone's here to have fun and he or she doesn't make bashing some part of the Realms a first priority, it doesn't matter what edition(s) that person likes.
Basically: have fun; don't be a jerk.
This is basically the mindset I've been trying to promote here at Candlekeep for as long as I've been a Moderator.
...
Regardless of what editions you may or may not like... it's all still the Realms. Let's just enjoy chatting for the sake of chatting about the Realms, eh? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2013 : 21:04:20
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
Agreed...but everyone is entitled to their opinions...
And that's where we all frequently run into the wall. One person's honest opinion or critique is another person's 'denigration of (insert target designation)', or some other grievance. Not providing any specific examples (for what I believe are obvious reasons), but it happens, thankfully much more rarely than before.
And I've not seen an instance where Wooly and Sage were anything but impartial and fair (and have in fact been meticulous in keeping their opinions as Realms aficionados separate from their moderator's duties) . If proof to the contrary exists, it has not been posted any place in Candlekeep for all to see. Stickied as it is at the top of the forum, one would think such proof would have already been forthcoming in this very thread. I think the glaring lack of such evidence is all that need be said on the matter.
- OMH |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 00:11:26
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Regarding the epicenters of current 4E Realms activity noted above. A look at the Neverwinter MMO forums shows the usual chatter about mechanics and game patches of the MMO or questions about where things are located in-game. There is a thread of fans showing off screenshots or fan-art of their characters. It's the typical activity associated with any MMO regardless of setting, not criticizing the Neverwinter game or even 4E Realms (players of the game are doing what they're supposed to do), there would be a problem if the forums didn’t have this sort of basic activity.
Going by the LFR boards, there hasn't been much of any discussion lately. What remnants of discussions from months ago are about rules and logistical stuff for running or playing LFR games. Again, little was setting specific, other natural discussion due to LFR modules being set in the Realms. That was also my impression even during the height of LFR when it had stronger support from WotC, the forums seemed to be a logistical focal point for organized play rather than an actual community based on the Realms specifically. Not that some discussion didn’t happen, but it wasn’t a primary use of the forum.
As for the onus being on Candlekeep to reach out to LFR, that's an unreasonable expectation. LFR was a self-sufficient organization with resources provided directly by WotC. The sentiment I saw from LFR seemed to be that Candlekeep was a non-entity, as were most other sites really, no fault or criticism of LFR. Their regional directors and module writers were independent of Candlekeep or similar sites, however, they were under supervision of WotC.
Short of having an individual scribe from Candlekeep becoming one of the managers or writers for LFR, there really wasn't a direct way Candlekeep could enter that organization in any capacity, unofficial or official. Even then it would only be an individual person who entered the LFR’s organization, not Candlekeep itself in any real capacity. Candlekeep is also not a monolithic entity, unlike LFR. Candlekeep has no real hierarchy, no real support from WotC. Even the moderators are here on a voluntary basis. Participants come and go as they please.
It was up to individuals LFR admins and writers to make use of Candlekeep as they saw fit, the same as any Realms fan visiting this site regardless of edition or era. Individual writers and administrators did stop by for discussion, but that was their choice. If anything it is within WotC’s authority to allow various fan-sites into their playground. That was always how it has been for setting-oriented fan-sites, existence is at the whim of WotC.
The hold on the Candlekeep Compendium has been explained by others above. It is also not as if the Compendium continued to be published with pre-4E Realms only material. The entire Compendium project came to a stall due to WotC’s uncertain community use policy.
Hopefully 5E comes with a more clear or more open policy that would allow production of future Compendiums without fear of legal entanglements. Otherwise, it has always been an option for fans of the 4E Realms to get the ball rolling and produce their own equivalent fan publication. |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 03 Aug 2013 00:13:20 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 08:42:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Wizard
As for the onus being on Candlekeep to reach out to LFR, that's an unreasonable expectation.
I realize you’re speaking generally, but I’d like to point out that at no time did I claim that Candlekeep had a responsibility to reach out to LFR.
Forgive me for being a little facetious, but your request was for [the] “hotbed of 4E Realms activity”, not “places that only talk about the 4E Realms for the sake of 4E Realmslore, because that’s the only kind of 4E Realms activity that counts for anything.”
I realize you're making a point that there's little or no active 4E-only Realmslore discussion on the wider internetz, and that perhaps if there was we could maybe get those people to come here, but such is to miss the point: talking about the Realms is talking about the Realms.
Realms talk related to 4E elements of the Realms happens here at Candlekeep, already, up and down the forum space.
As for the idea of Candlekeep reaching out to LFR…I think it’s entirely reasonable.
It would have been brilliant if someone (and not just the moderators) from Candlekeep had thought to reach out to LFR, because it might have alleviated the concerns aired at the time that what was being written in terms of adventures for LFR would be considered canon Realmslore.
I don’t agree that Candlekeep had no direct way of interfacing with LFR beyond individuals reaching out on their own. What if a new sub-forum had been opened up for LFR on these forums, for example?
It doesn’t matter that LFR had its own dedicated forum space (on the main WotC forums, later as its own group forum when LFR hit on hard times) anymore than it matters that the WotC forums host a General Realms forum; none of those things keep us from having an active, General Forgotten Realms forum here nor, perhaps, an LFR forum that is simply the “Realms Events” forum renamed.
We’ve already been told that upcoming 5E/D&D Next adventures will allow gamers to influence the setting. What better place to keep track of them? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 03 Aug 2013 09:28:03 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 09:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by ksu_bond
Agreed...but everyone is entitled to their opinions...
You're absolutely right. And there's bound to be differences of opinion and even disagreement. It’s also true that a lot of people will forever hate the Spellplague and its effects on the Realms and, if they’re new here, they’re likely going to tell us about it.
There’s just no getting away from that. And you know what? That’s OK.
What I'm focused on is this idea: While everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody is entitled to share their opinion in any and every conversation that takes place here, particularly if it’s a highly negative opinion they’ve already shared before, because that tends to get in the way of enjoying this place—enjoyment (presumably) being the reason we’re all here.
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
It had more to do with whether or not they would be breaking copyright or not and the lack of clear focus from WotC/Hasbro on the matter.
Things got stalled on the issue of Candlekeep’s position vis-à-vis WotC, yes, but getting to that point was practically a skirmish.
When the idea was proposed, several scribes who’ve been here for a long time—including one moderator—raised their voice to say they weren’t going to support a Compendium effort if it included 4E material.
While it’s unfortunate scribes might choose to do this, that’s not something I think a moderator for a website that’s supposed to be about all the Realms should do. (This particular opinion isn’t something I care to debate, with anyone.)
That experience really soured the forum experience for me because it illustrated how some people had gone from disliking the 4E Realms to hating it with a passion; the sort that allowed them to put their negative feelings towards one part of the Realms ahead of their love for all the rest of the setting combined.
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Stickied as it is at the top of the forum, one would think such proof would have already been forthcoming in this very thread. I think the glaring lack of such evidence is all that need be said on the matter.
I cringed when I saw this scroll had been posted, because it seemed to put me in a position of having to answer for claims (in the form of Sage’s remarks and general questions in the OP) that I didn’t make.
I also cringed because Sage left both himself and Wooly wide open to criticism (a form of bait that Brace couldn’t help but go after).
Everything I have to say regarding 4E discussion issues I’ve said to Sage, publicly and privately, because he’s shown that he gets there’s still a problem.
In my opinion Wooly hasn’t been as cognizant of the issues as Sage has, and he certainly has not been as even-tempered. I have a real problem with how he moderates and how he addresses scribes in general, but aside from stating these opinions I don't plan to address them any further, publicly or privately.
My issue has been the one or two people who still go out of their way to get their licks in and be jerks, and my frustration that the moderators don’t drill down on these people and get them to back off, because having to share the forum space with those kinds of people sucks, and because a lack of consistent, firm action perpetuates the already extant idea that Candlekeep—and thus its moderators—have a strong bias against the post-Spellplague Realms.
In hindsight: I should have never let my frustration get the better of me in the scroll that ended up spawning this one, because this scroll is now serving as a platform for forum drama.
Reaching out to Sage privately would have been a far better choice.
I’d love it if, at some point soon, this scroll is unstickied. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 03 Aug 2013 09:44:08 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 10:10:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
When the idea was proposed, several scribes who’ve been here for a long time—including one moderator—raised their voice to say they weren’t going to support a Compendium effort if it included 4E material.
While it’s unfortunate scribes might choose to do this, that’s not something I think a moderator for a website that’s supposed to be about all the Realms should do. (This particular opinion isn’t something I care to debate, with anyone.)
That experience really soured the forum experience for me because it illustrated how some people had gone from disliking the 4E Realms to hating it with a passion; the sort that allowed them to put their negative feelings towards one part of the Realms ahead of their love for all the rest of the setting combined.
As I was a Candlekeep compendium writer at the time your generalization here includes me.
Too some degree that is a simplification. The Compendiums were delayed a long time before this, there were changes in participants and a lot of other things before the 4ed. was ever announced. A lot of negativity towards 4ed. surfaced at the time, but it seemed like some people decided to milk it for what it was worth and generalize everything into accusations of some planned action towards the changes.
I quit months before the edition was announced because I wasn't able to write near enough to canon and certainly wasn't able to do it an edition later. This is something I tried to explain both in posts and private messages to people accusing everything on "grognards, typical Candlekeep and Compendium writers" but as this didnt fit the rhetoric at the time it was ignored. The same were reasonable comments by other people (on both sides) until it was a situation were none of the sides acted in a way we should really be that proud of.
But in the end everyone used their own time to write in the Compendium without there being some idiotic principle of everyone having an obligation to write. To therefore say that those that were still involved should continue to write when they didn't feel like it doesn't work. Especially when there were also moronic claims that going against canon was some sort of affront to official writers of the setting. That last one ended more or less any idea of Candlekeep as fun for me personalty.
In the end people should mind their own business where other peoples fun is involved and not use every single chance they can to come with negativity where it doesn't belong or look for insults where they are not intended.
I'm done. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 04 Aug 2013 10:21:29 |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 10:13:57
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Jeremy, I couldn't agree more. I get very irritated when someone expects others to respect their opinions without first respecting the opinions of others. In fact I left the WotC FR boards, where I was extremely active, and this very forum due to an extreme lack of respect that was being shown towards those of us who had been loyal customers and supporters since before 4e came about and when I called this out I was given a couple very stern warnings that my opinions were being "disruptive".
So I do understand, perfectly, what you are saying. And now that I've decided to come back and become more actively involved in what has been one of my passions for nearly two decades, I will try to keep my posts as positive as possible. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2013 : 12:23:51
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My two coppers, random thoughts that are probably irrelevant. I don't know where I'm going with this.
Granted I've been out of the fandom for a few years and no longer get into big discussions, but I don't really see what the problem is. I've been through other fandoms that have undergone similar changes in the franchise or have rather fractured communities, or entrenched bad attitudes, and the level of personal abuse that gets hurled around from one segment of the fandom to the other is disturbing (like Doctor Who). But from when I first got involved around 2005/6 to the Spellplague to now, I'd characterise the FR fandom as the friendliest, healthiest and most unified. If the above squabble with a lone, lazy troll is indicative of current problems, then I wouldn't worry too much.
One can't stop people holding bad feelings. People were still complaining about the Time of Troubles up to the day that we learned of the Spellplague, and then kept complaining. I complained about the ToT when I first read Shadowdale, over twenty years late. The age-old complaint of all fandoms is "the new stuff isn't as good as the old stuff" (because you get in when you like what's going on currently, accept all that went on before, and judge what comes next with a critical eye). It's a testament of fans' love for the setting, and the impact of the changes, that the whinging is still so strong. It just takes time for it to die down to a background noise, and a little effort to curb the excesses.
Are the mods doing that? I dunno, I haven't been here long. From all the above discussion, I'd assume they are.
To be honest, when I came back, I was surprised Candlekeep looked so 4e friendly. People still talk about it even if they hate it. People pick and choose the bits they like and discard what they don't. People talk about how to change it to suit them. People seem pretty hopeful for 5th edition.
Where are the centres of 4th edition FR discussion? Well, here at Candlekeep, for one, and at the Wizards boards. That discussion is so minor in both forums suggests to me that 4e FR just isn't inspiring enough people to discuss it, either for the current quality or the lack of material, or because they've already jumped off the wagon. One can't make people talk about what they don't want to.
I also like to think the Forgotten Realms Wiki is 4e-friendly. One editor, Boo Too, wrote up a huge pile of 4e lore: the FRCG/FRPG, several novels, and several Dragon articles. Another, Moviesign, covered many the planes of the World Axis cosmology. I've put some 4e lore in too, and other editors do a bit as well. We're currently working on technical and organisational matters related to all editions, with 4e given specific focus. As much as I dislike 4e and the Spellplague and the new setting, I'm adamantly for giving it equal inclusion at the FRW. I've found that individual bits and pieces, divorced from the larger problems of the edition, and not from the FRPG/FRCG, can be fairly interesting and would fit in the classic setting easily with a change of date. I like to think we can heal the damage done to the setting and the fandom with a smooth integration of all editions in the wiki. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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