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Bionic Man
Acolyte
39 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2013 : 00:26:43
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I am a fan of 1e and 2e realms. I know a little about 3e realms and less about 4e. What exactly were the changes to the realms that people disliked so much?
Thanks.
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It's a ::rolls dice:: pleasure to meet you! |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2013 : 00:38:33
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| *goes to grab his bike helmet and hides in a ditch* I will come back in a week, once folks are done venting. You put this on yourself, may kelemvor spare your soul. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2013 : 03:31:43
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3e sucks and 4e is abismal ....... Just joking, they each have pro's and con's and at this point of the lives of each edition, a good Google search will be of far more value
quote:
Originally posted by Bionic Man
I am a fan of 1e and 2e realms. I know a little about 3e realms and less about 4e. What exactly were the changes to the realms that people disliked so much?
Thanks.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2013 : 14:37:28
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1e was mostly Ed's original, and 2e began to 'grow' beyond that (but mostly in good ways). 3e - now looking back with hindsight - veered even further from Ed's original, but it was still mostly good (although I despised the cosmology change).
4e went off in a whole 'nother direction. There is no way to sum it up - just about everyone we cared about is dead (or undead), a century has passed, magic is different, there are different races and new lands... in other words, its actually a completely different setting (as far as most of us were concerned).
At first we all thought it was all horrible, but some of us have 'warmed up' to certain parts of it, and hopeful 5e will take those good bits and marry them to something akin to the 'classic Realms'.
If you are looking for specific details, you are asking us to sum-up some 15 years of RW history and game material, and in the last 7, there was a dramatic departure from what had gone before, making this a monumental task. The least-changed thing: Cormyr; its an Empire now, somewhat bigger then it was, but it 'feels' the same. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jul 2013 13:18:25 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2013 : 19:59:13
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4th edition Forgotten Realms was a monumental disaster of epic proportions for a variety of well discussed reasons not limited to the time skip 100 years into the future, the nuking/removal of huge sections of the Realms, the unnecessary killing of huge amounts of characters beloved and cherished, and ridiculous retcons in what I can only imagine is some desperate attempt to get World of Warcraft players into the setting.
Total and abysmal failure. For many, many well written criticisms, please go to Amazon.com and read the reviews of the Fourth Edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
e.g.,
"It didn't take too long to sadly see that the Realms no longer existed. Now I'm not talking about "The Realms you knew no longer exist due to a great calamity" kind of no longer existed, I'm talking about the kind of "no longer existing" that involves throwing out every single piece of what makes something appealing, intriguing and deep, and replacing it with something else that calls itself by the same name but is simply a shadow of it's predecessor. I can only describe it as...well, empty. This word kept coming back to me as I turned page after soulless page. Empty. The heart of the Realms has been ripped out and replaced by a clockwork replica that tries to do the job but is so distant from the original it might as well be something else entirely."
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
238 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 04:57:39
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I've really just hated 4E Realms for a such long time that I don't want to dwell more into it or beat a dead horse about it. Some stuff was good about it, but overall it was a very unwelcome direction for FR, because it just shrunk the world in size, depth and life.
I'm just glad that the FR authors & WotC folk are finally kinda opening up to the idea that maybe 4E Realms wasn't so great, lol. But really, it is great to hear from guys like RA Salvatore from that geekandsundry interview for example, complete honesty about the whole thing, about what he and Ed Greenwood originally felt about 4E. Because that kind of honesty actually gives FR fans some reason to actually trust WotC this time. I and a lot of my friends have long held a deep distrust of WotC ever since the 4th Edition FR Campaign Setting came out. I'm really hoping 5E Realms will erase the bad stuff of 4E, so that the future of Forgotten Realms is actually something we can go back to looking forward to, instead of grumbling and cringing over. |
Edited by - deserk on 11 Jul 2013 04:59:38 |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 18:42:26
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| Bionic Man, this site is decidedly anti-4e. It's best to decide if you want to pick up some of the content, read it for yourself, and figure out if you like it or not. |
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rodrigoalcanza
Seeker
Brazil
67 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 20:09:50
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I've really just hated 4E Realms for a such long time that I don't want to dwell more into it or beat a dead horse about it. Some stuff was good about it, but overall it was a very unwelcome direction for FR, because it just shrunk the world in size, depth and life.
I'm just glad that the FR authors & WotC folk are finally kinda opening up to the idea that maybe 4E Realms wasn't so great, lol. But really, it is great to hear from guys like RA Salvatore from that geekandsundry interview for example, complete honesty about the whole thing, about what he and Ed Greenwood originally felt about 4E. Because that kind of honesty actually gives FR fans some reason to actually trust WotC this time. I and a lot of my friends have long held a deep distrust of WotC ever since the 4th Edition FR Campaign Setting came out. I'm really hoping 5E Realms will erase the bad stuff of 4E, so that the future of Forgotten Realms is actually something we can go back to looking forward to, instead of grumbling and cringing over.
What exactly that Ed Greenwood and RA Salvarote talked about 4e Realms? I think I lost these declarations.
Personally, I agree with what has been exposed here about Forgottem Realms 4th edition. It was a mixture of anger, sadness and frustration. Even today I can not believe they did something like that ...
And WOTC still thought have much financial success with it. Why not simply published another campaing setting?
One thing I always wanted to know: who exactly was the mastermind of the changes in the Forgotten Realms 4e? I always see it saying it was the WOTC ... but who of them? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 00:14:39
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quote:
Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
I've really just hated 4E Realms for a such long time that I don't want to dwell more into it or beat a dead horse about it. Some stuff was good about it, but overall it was a very unwelcome direction for FR, because it just shrunk the world in size, depth and life.
I'm just glad that the FR authors & WotC folk are finally kinda opening up to the idea that maybe 4E Realms wasn't so great, lol. But really, it is great to hear from guys like RA Salvatore from that geekandsundry interview for example, complete honesty about the whole thing, about what he and Ed Greenwood originally felt about 4E. Because that kind of honesty actually gives FR fans some reason to actually trust WotC this time. I and a lot of my friends have long held a deep distrust of WotC ever since the 4th Edition FR Campaign Setting came out. I'm really hoping 5E Realms will erase the bad stuff of 4E, so that the future of Forgotten Realms is actually something we can go back to looking forward to, instead of grumbling and cringing over.
What exactly that Ed Greenwood and RA Salvarote talked about 4e Realms? I think I lost these declarations.
Personally, I agree with what has been exposed here about Forgottem Realms 4th edition. It was a mixture of anger, sadness and frustration. Even today I can not believe they did something like that ...
And WOTC still thought have much financial success with it. Why not simply published another campaing setting?
One thing I always wanted to know: who exactly was the mastermind of the changes in the Forgotten Realms 4e? I always see it saying it was the WOTC ... but who of them?
I'd imagine Bruce Cordell, but I don't have proof of that.
otherwise you do like I do.
Blame Chris PErkins. He's in charge, he gets the blame. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 03:08:25
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There is an article available on wizards website https://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/drdd/20080828a featuring Philip Athans and Bruce R. Cordell discussing the 4e changes. The FR revision team consisted of Cordell, Athans and Richard Baker per the article. Also, Chris Perkins participated in several interviews championing the changes. Try searching 4e Forgotten Realms and Chris Perkins on youtube.
quote:
Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza
What exactly that Ed Greenwood and RA Salvarote talked about 4e Realms? I think I lost these declarations.
There are two recent interviews with RA Salvatore were he briefly discusses the changes to FR for 4e and 5e.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLf1hBUr9M4
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loL4UofPidw
The sections relating to 4e/5e can be found at about 11:00 into the first video and 7 minutes into the second. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31771 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 03:08:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Bionic Man, this site is decidedly anti-4e.
I'd just like to note that while Matt's take on the general attitude toward 4e at Candlekeep does have some validity... it is NOT the markedly specific viewpoint of the entire community.
Many of us, such as myself, have worked long and hard in our attempts to present both civil and considerate discussion of 4e here at Candlekeep. But out efforts, such as they are, can only go so far. Ultimately, the views of the individual scribe on a particularly explosive topic like 4e, isn't something we can control with any real degree of certainty.
We only ask, as always, that these kinds of folk who hold strong anti-4e views, respect that NOT all the members of this community may feel the same as they do, and thus, allow the fresh exchange of ideas between those who still have a passion for the Realms in its 4e incarnation.
Thank you. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 03:41:33
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Good statement Sage. For my part, my earlier post was in jest just because it was another what do ya think about the edition question and they almost always go the same :-)
I truly liked 2e where i truly got into the realms, liked 3e, and I believe in the premise of 4e realms, if not excited about every change that occurred. I am sure I will also dig and support future editions of the realms as well.
So chock me up to being pro 4e. No hatin here folks  |
Edited by - scererar on 12 Jul 2013 03:42:59 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2013 : 21:46:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ultimately, the views of the individual scribe on a particularly explosive topic like 4e, isn't something we can control with any real degree of certainty.
If we're talking in terms of certainty, you can be certain that whenever the subject is brought up, you're always going to see the same one or two scribes jump at the chance to post a hate-filled screed blasting the 4E Realms, which does this website no favors, turns fans of the Realms away and further encourages WotC staffers to tread here with caution, if they choose to at all.
Since this sort of behavior is allowed at Candlekeep, is it too much to ask that when Candlekeep 2.0 hits the web that an Ignore feature be included? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2013 : 23:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ultimately, the views of the individual scribe on a particularly explosive topic like 4e, isn't something we can control with any real degree of certainty.
If we're talking in terms of certainty, you can be certain that whenever the subject is brought up, you're always going to see the same one or two scribes jump at the chance to post a hate-filled screed blasting the 4E Realms, which does this website no favors, turns fans of the Realms away and further encourages WotC staffers to tread here with caution, if they choose to at all.
Yes, and this thread quite demonstrates that.
Oh, wait, no it doesn't. So much for "always". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 00:33:02
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*hate filled speech *
can you link me to the other threads, so I can make you true. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 00:46:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Yes, and this thread quite demonstrates that.
Yep, count down a handful of posts and you see exactly that.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Oh, wait, no it doesn't. So much for "always".
That pretty much sums up why this website is perceived to have an anti-4E Realms bias.
It would be a huge benefit to have an ignore feature as part of Candlekeep 2.0. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2013 : 01:17:06
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Sorry that people having opinions on a controversial change to something we all are massive fans of bothers you so much, Jeremy. You could just stay away from the forums until the ignore feature is here if discussion and opinions differing from your own are so traumatic.
This poster specifically requested reasons/opinions on what people disliked on the fourth edition Realms. No one giving their opinion here is in the wrong, and for you to imply that they are is really off-putting. |
Edited by - Seravin on 15 Jul 2013 01:28:07 |
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4e Realms
