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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 02:54:10
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It seems Szass is trying REALLY hard to rewrite reality, and gain some sort of god like power, and when we talk about 5e, it seems he does not come up very often. Do you think Szass attempt or continues to harbor wants, that could be used as the plot driver for 5e?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 03:00:28
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| hope not. I'd much rather it be that he's simply f'ing delusional because of the cursed item he was given by Larloch. I'd also like him to get his arse kicked and run out of Thay (but not by good guys). He can setup ghoultown elsewhere and still be a hefty power, but the Szass worship if frankly boring. They're just turning him into Vecna or any other nutty undead loving lich, which is not what he was originally. Either do the above, or have him get cured of his affliction and go back to worldly power building again and not the metaphysical jihadist they're trying to create. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Xar Zarath
Senior Scribe
Malaysia
552 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 05:26:12
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Well Karsus stole Mystryls divinity in an attempt to save his "empire".
Szass is trying to become the universe's sole deity for the power.
Besides, Szass wont be able to do much of his Unmaking, as the ritual may or may not do what it says. The entire Realms and its reality would be affected and the eponymous "they"(WOTC) would rather Szass perish then sacrifice the Forgotten Realms.
If Szass had tried this in some backwater world in another backwater universe, the Realms would have another lich god. |
Everything ends where it begins. Period.
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 11:11:23
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| They could have Szass imprisoned by the new Zulkiers. He could then be used as a sort of Hannibal Lecter character like in the Silence of the Lambs. His major threat could be the mind games he plays with the new Thayan leaders. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Darsson Spellmaker
Seeker
56 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 11:23:50
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It would be just like Szass Tam to reach for some kind of divinity, no matter how minor.
**SPOILERS FOR THE HAUNTED LANDS TRILOGY**
Especially since he's promised his soul to Bane after 10,000 years in exchange for the arcane mastery Bane granted him in the wake of the Spellplague. |
"Know, O mages, that there is learning, and there is wisdom, and they are very far from being the same thing."--Azuth the High One, Utterances from the Altar: Collected Verbal Manifestations of the Divine and Most Holy Lord of Spells (holy chapbook, assembled by anonymous priests of Azuth circa 1358 DR)
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 11:48:13
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Im pretty much with Sleyvas on this one. Tam needs to fail or somehow go back to the NPC he originally was. But, sadly, ultra-powerful liches reaching for godhood have become fantasy trope and Im not holding out hope that this will happen. Personally, I would like to see some of the original zulkirs return (with a few new faces to boot) and somehow entrap him. From that point, Tam can attempt to 'reach out' to the world beyond in an attempt to free him.
Come to think of it, perhaps the returning zulkirs can study Tam's structures for the ritual (sorry I forget what they are called) and manage to harness power from them both collectively and individually. They could then work to restore much of Thay. I see Lauzoril becoming the new 'chief zulkir' (but thats just me). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 18:24:37
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after all this..is it just me or is ...Szass really a joke?
He knows how to control others, but seems all his powers have been given to him rather then earned. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 18:42:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarlyn
They could have Szass imprisoned by the new Zulkiers. He could then be used as a sort of Hannibal Lecter character like in the Silence of the Lambs. His major threat could be the mind games he plays with the new Thayan leaders.
Hmmm, now this is an intriguing idea. What would be a possible nice add-on is if the original Zulkir, Ythazz Buvaar, that is a demilich that's been entrapped below Bezantur helps the new Zulkirs and becomes a power in the reformed Thay. They could then play on Ythazz and Tam being at odds (both having buried secrets in the land or something). Maybe they can't kill Tam until they've uncovered all the little traps his people have put in place for some reason. The idea here could bear some pondering. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 18:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
after all this..is it just me or is ...Szass really a joke?
He knows how to control others, but seems all his powers have been given to him rather then earned.
I wouldn't say a joke. He was a very intelligent, very scheming, and very dangerous Zulkir. His takeover of the country was at least portrayed as being done well. The problem is they're headed in the heavy handed direction that they do with all the "big necromancers" and they're forgetting the little things that the 1st-3rd Ed. writers did with him. For instance, in the Simbul's Gift, Tam was portrayed as being very weakened at the results of Eltab's release, etc... The 4E people came out and wanted this super power/Vecna-like/Sauron-like being and they took what was a very usable NPC and turned him into a megalomaniac. Now, I state firmly that that can be explained away with the effects of the cursed item he was given, because it makes the person push towards more and more evil acts.... sounds like exactly what he's doing. He just needs to be cured of the curse now that they've shown it in action OR admit that it is the curse making him do it OR let him get knocked down for reaching to far and blame it on the curse. However, if they have him do another "Vecna reformed the universe" thing, I'll sigh and be like "seriously". Now, if they have him try and he has it all messed up entirely... maybe he has no true clue what he's doing... and instead something else that is useful for the campaign happens... I MIGHT be able to live with that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 19:33:53
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Szass Tam’s Ritual of Unmaking is not going to work, but it may nuke a considerable portion of Toril or have some warping effects on the Weave. Karsus partly caused the fall of Netheril and, thereafter, the drastic changes to the world’s system of magic. So in terms of the outcomes of his actions, Szass Tam may be the next Karsus.
It’s important to note also how they their intentions turn out to be somewhat similar. Karsus might have been a little selfish, but he was dead serious in trying to save their dying empire. Szass Tam sees the “rot” in all things, living or otherwise (including his present state)—a disease that slowly eats away everything. He intends to “cure” the world of that malady; thus, he wants to be the supreme god, a being able to recreate the world as he alone sees fit. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2013 : 20:52:50
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| I vote that AO is getting real tired of mortals shit, ruining stuff causing chaos left and right, and that is why he remakes the tablets to prevent power grabs and make the process of how things become a god allot more clear and strict. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 01:01:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Darsson Spellmaker
It would be just like Szass Tam to reach for some kind of divinity, no matter how minor.
**SPOILERS FOR THE HAUNTED LANDS TRILOGY**
Especially since he's promised his soul to Bane after 10,000 years in exchange for the arcane mastery Bane granted him in the wake of the Spellplague.
Was it 10,000? I thought it was 1,000.
Givent hat Bane hasn't even existed for 1,000 the deal would be ridiculous enought with just 1,000 years.
Yeah, it should highlight how little time means to the likes of deities and undead, but for that to work one needs representatives of each who have at least been around for some time.
For Shar 10,000 years moght not be much, but for a deity only a few hundred years old, that's a really long bet |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 03:18:30
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It is 1,000. Not 10,000. Bane may be relatively young for a god, but he is a god nonetheless, and as Szass Tam himself said in trying to convince Bane to agree to the bargain, a year in Toril may just be a blink of an eye for a god. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 04:14:16
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| bane has liches that he especially made, so what happens if he turns into a banite ... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 04:23:19
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He may have a lot of liches under his command, whether those liches know it or not. But none of them is Szass Tam, and the sovereign of Thay thinks rather high of himself, for good reasons, of course. Bane sees that, and he must have “special” uses for SzassTam when his time is up—uses that Szass Tam himself knows not. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 04:59:23
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| Hmm...HMMMMMMM.....take over valsharoon spot and become subservient to bane? Start a war with orcus, and in able to distract orcus better, Sazzmm using his world spanning power, pulls the devils and demons back together restarting the blood war, and keeping orcus to busy to bother with bane and his newly acquired realms of undeath. |
Edited by - silverwolfer on 08 Jun 2013 05:00:35 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 14:13:08
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That is rather too far ahead into the future. A lot of things can happen to Bane and Szass Tam before that. Also, Szass Tam would likely renege on his part of the bargain or trick Bane into another one (that is supposedly better than the last). |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2013 : 14:38:11
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quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Hmm...HMMMMMMM.....take over valsharoon spot and become subservient to bane? Start a war with orcus, and in able to distract orcus better, Sazzmm using his world spanning power, pulls the devils and demons back together restarting the blood war, and keeping orcus to busy to bother with bane and his newly acquired realms of undeath.
If they have Tam take over Velsharoon's spot, that'll be just the weakest plot writing I've seen in a while. Similarly, him having world spanning power is a bit ridiculous. He's not Vecna.
On the Velsharoon thing, if they want to do something with Tam, it'd probably be great to bring back Velsharoon. Having the god of liches not liking one of the most prominent liches in the realms is perhaps one of the greatest ironies there is. There's so many ideas that they could do to play this out further, each hating but possibly having to rely on the actions of the other.
Oh, and earlier someone mentioned having Tam imprisoned and treating him like "Hannibal Lecter" a bit. I think a good expansion of this would be to have his death be a trigger for some bad stuff. So, they place some spell upon him that draws his soul back to the last dread ring tower still standing in Thay every night. Maybe wherever this last tower is becomes a Tharch and he becomes its Tharchion responsible for protecting it from incursion, meanwhile some other upstart takes on the mantle of being Zulkir of necromancy and is effective enough to piss off Tam. Maybe Tam interacts outside his Tharch through magic jar type effects, but they're only effective until his spirit is called back. Obviously, this could be improved on, but I think its a working idea. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 18:00:34
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Might be a stupid question, but where is Larloch in all of this? Is he simple just not caring or just doing something we do not know about?
Btw... I would like to se Szass get hes bony behind smacked by Larloch!!! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 18:06:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Might be a stupid question, but where is Larloch in all of this? Is he simple just not caring or just doing something we do not know about?
Hibernating in one of the Blueflame items.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Btw... I would like to se Szass get hes bony behind smacked by Larloch!!!
For what reason exactly? Larloch is not the petty type. Besides, he had bargained with Szass Tam before. He may still have other uses for Szass Tam in the future. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2013 : 20:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Might be a stupid question, but where is Larloch in all of this? Is he simple just not caring or just doing something we do not know about?
Hibernating in one of the Blueflame items.
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Btw... I would like to se Szass get hes bony behind smacked by Larloch!!!
For what reason exactly? Larloch is not the petty type. Besides, he had bargained with Szass Tam before. He may still have other uses for Szass Tam in the future.
Since I don’t play or read any 4ed, post spell plague stuff, I dont know what a blueflame item is. Sounds interesting though.
Why I want Szass to get slapped is simple... never liked the dude! But can’t come up with a fair or valid reason for it.
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Could Szass Taz be the next Karsus?
