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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
 Posted - 14 May 2013 : 14:40:56
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{The city, not the game}
I'm reading myself up on Baldur's Gate (while listening to the soundtrack to Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn!) and I am trying to figure out something, maybe there's help to be had.
In the revised campaign setting, it is stated that Baldur's Gate lies fifty miles inland from where the River Chionthar empties into the Trackless Sea, yet in Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate it seems to me as if the city is supposed to lie on the coast itself:
"A bridge from the western shore links the mainland with a rocky islet on which perches the old, massive Seatower of Balduran (...)"
According to the boxed set, Baldur's Gate cradles the northern shore of the river, and thus it can't have a "west shore".
Or do they mean that there's a bridge from the mainland out to Balduran's seatower - fifty miles west of Baldur's Gate?
And how broad is the Chionthar anyway, considering the city harbor is one of the best in the realms (along with Waterdeep according to the boxed set)?
Looking at the map on p. 11 of Volo's guide, I can see that there's indeed some distance between the city and Ulgoth's Beard, so does this mean the Seatower lies close to Ulgoth's Beard? on the city map on p. 12 I see a northern gate, I assume this is where the Coast Way continues north. I'm also wondering what players can find in the areas just north of the city, and between the city and Ulgoth's Beard? I guess I have to make it up (or check the original BG game for inspiration but maybe someone has developed something for these areas already)?
tl;dr: Is the seatower far away or close to BG
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 15:40:48
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| Oh, and how does one cross the river to come to the city's southern gate? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 17:31:32
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I am not sure how canon THIS MAP is, but it is similar enough to the ones in the VG to go by (and I am ot sure how canon those are either). EDIT: I am pretty sure this first one is homebrew... but its not too shabby.
Anyhow, if we accept that a small part of the city lies on the other side of the Chionthar, then there IS a 'west coast' for that district, and it appears the island sits between the two areas (although no bridge is illustrated as going from the shore to the islet). This map could possibly be from a time period in which that bridge does not exist (or could be completely inaccurate as well).
EDIT:
I just found This map from the FRIA, and it looks like it matches an earlier canon map, and it, too, has a 'west shore' (because apparently the entire city resides on the north shore of a bay off of the river proper, and wraps around the entire bay).
However, on that map we still have no idea how people get across the Chionthar river. I would personally prefer a bridge (given the importance of that crossing), but it is a rather large span and perhaps there is a regular ferry service (which means there should be a small settlement on the south shore of the river as well... that would make an interesting 'DM special' homebrew location). If there is a bridge - going by that second map - it would be a small ways south and east of the city proper (see the road going off?)
EDIT2:
Looking at this 3rd map - which is from the VG and not necessarily canon - we can see my above conclusion is probably the correct one - it looks like there is indeed a bridge slightly SE of the city (that is, IF one can count on that map being applicable to the canon setting). It looks as though the bridge itself is called "Wyrm's Crossing". |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 May 2013 17:52:31 |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 18:00:22
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| Thanks for the detailed response, Markustay, much appreciated. Also good to know it wasn't just me, but that there was actual cause for confusion (which is not always the case with yours truly). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2013 : 18:03:12
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| By the way, is that third map based on the PC game, it looks like it. I haven't played it in years so I don't remember if I ever crossed a Wyrm's Crossing. The second map to me looks like it fits the descriptions, kind of, and I guess I will have to choose between a bridge of sorts or ferry service (which I'm partial to). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 16:32:00
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And now I realize you meant "Video Game" by VG. Anyway:
I was enjoying the first day of nice weather in a looong time outside with "Forgotten Realms Adventures" and lo!
and behold, it had a map of Baldur's Gate, including the seatower inside the bay, on the western side.
In this map, there is still no sign of a bridge or a ferryplace, but it does seem as if the Coast Way comes up
from the southeast through the southernmost gate of the city (the one I assume, based on the text, to be "Baldur's
Gate"), but it seems as if the main road leading into the city comes directly from the east - maybe both these
roads connect to the Coast Way.
Map of Baldur's Gate from Forgotten Realms Adventures:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y13/Slynt/FRAdventures_BG_zps979fc58e.jpg
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Edited by - Caladan Brood on 18 May 2013 17:18:25 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 16:49:04
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That last map, Caladan Brood, is closely derived from Ed's original and is the most accurate of those discussed in this thread. However, it's out of date; over the years, Baldur's Gate has expanded greatly. Although the oldest parts of the city do cover the sides of a natural bowl (on the north side of the river, with the main harbor at the "bottom" of the bowl), with the nobles and wealthy living on a high plateau west of the bowl (the "lip of the bowl") that shelters the bowl from sea gales, there's now also a substantial "outer city" outside the walls, and some city across the river to the south.
Baldur's Gate is inland, yes, but stands at where the very wide mouth of the Chionthar narrows enough to be a visually seen as a river and not an estuary, and where freely-sailing ships have to start navigating with care; it's also the spot where the largest ocean-going vessels have to stop, and transfer cargoes to barges and smaller ships to take things farther upriver.
Ed tells me the forthcoming MURDER IN BALDUR'S GATE will feature at least one handsome map of the city (the latest and greatest map available to us thus far, obviously).
love,
THO |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 17:06:59
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So no bridge, then?
I know the Video Game is not canon, but that is a substantial deviation from canon. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 17:26:06
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Except that that is the original, pre-3e orientation of the city.
Although the FRA map is still 2e, apparently it already took into account the 9.2º counter-clockwise rotation the maps underwent. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 May 2013 20:24:57 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 17:40:52
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Just checked with Ed, and he said: "Don't be surprised if you see a bridge. Not to mention ferry service."
love,
THO |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 18:01:11
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That is awesome to hear ^^ Another stretch of realmslore pondering coming to a close. Both a bridge and a ferry service, I suppose the ferry would be to the "new" city area on the southern bank of the Chionthar then, and the bridge somewhat to the east. Thanks again for coming in and helping out :)
Edit: Oh, and I think I'll go with the Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast map since I already put it up at Obsidian Portal. |
Edited by - Caladan Brood on 18 May 2013 18:03:46 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 20:25:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Just checked with Ed, and he said: "Don't be surprised if you see a bridge. Not to mention ferry service."
Nice.
Both gives us more options. Options are always a good thing. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 18 May 2013 : 21:34:34
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| Does this mean that, aside from near Baldur's Gate, the river Chionthar is so broad that you can't see the other side when standing on one of its banks? |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2013 : 20:40:26
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No, you can see the other side. It's just that most folk seeing it would think "I'm looking at a bay or fjord," not "I'm looking at a river."
(I'm speaking of the seaward, downstream side of Baldur's Gate, of course, not upriver/inland.) Ed tells me "the Gate" developed where it did because that spot (the bowl protected by the high seaward ridge/plateau) was the best natural harbor on the Chionthar, not to mention the best on the Sword Coast for quite a distance in either direction.
The seaward side of the Chionthar-mouth, by the way, is very wide but not navigable by seagoing ships from bank to bank; there are sandbars ("mud flats" at low tide) on both sides, close to the banks.
love,
THO |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 22 May 2013 : 16:00:04
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| A little update - in today's haul I received a copy of 'The Forgotten Realms Atlas' and the map there of BG has both the old and new city walls, and an arrow with "to bridge" pointing away from one of the gates :) |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2013 : 01:24:13
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Oh wow, a Baldur's Gate product for D&D is coming. Nice.
But being as it is set in 4E, how similar will it be compared to pre-Spellplague Baldur's Gate? For example, I've always wanted to know more about the Unrolling Scroll Oghma shrine so I hope to see that in this adventure module, despite the 100 year push.
Well, heck, I guess the real question is how much Baldur's Gate lore can we expect in the product? I have a group set in Baldur's Gate and it sure would be a nice adventure to use (with me converting the material to my 3.5/PF hybrid game) when it releases. |
Edited by - Razz on 30 May 2013 01:26:04 |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2013 : 01:47:02
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Razz, in the article below it was confirmed that the Sundering adventures which includes MURDER IN BALDUR'S GATE, won't be D&D Next or 4E but platform agnostic (with add ons possibly): http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2012/08/20/whats-next-with-dungeons-and-dragons/
quote:
New D&D Adventures
Sundering authors R.A. Salvatore and Ed Greenwood are also collaborating with D&D’s designers on new game content. They’re each providing the story and helping write a new playable adventure that will be released in 2013, allowing D&D players to be heroes of their own Sundering adventures.
Since the D&D game is in between editions, these new modules will strive to be “platform agnostic.” The idea, says Mearls, is that both books will focus on providing story, color and characters, so they that can used by players using any version of the game. Edition specific details –like statistics for monsters– will be available separately, perhaps as a free download."
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Yan
Playtester |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2013 : 11:55:46
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| Oh now that is definitely what I am looking for. Sweet. Going to get that product for sure |
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Question about Baldur's Gate
