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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 07:26:36
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Mystra I, after being reborn from Mystryl, forbade any spells over 9th level. Does this mean that epic spells, from the Epic Level Handbook, are out if you're an acrane spellcaster?
As well, should that cover metamagicked spells that rise over 9th level? After all, if an arcane spellcaster has a spellcasting ability bonus of 10 or more, (s)he gets a bonus spell slot or slots greater than 9th level, but would those be forbidden by Mystra I and II?
And here's the interesting question: if all that is true, then would Shar have the same restictions on her weave?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 14:07:17
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Hmm...an interesting question.
I also remember that a similar question on the WotC boards ended up as a 20+ page debate...with no definite answer...
I would say that, given the requirements and prerequisite spell seeds for some of the spells contained with the ELH, the restriction should, and probably does apply. However, I know of some DMs who have overridden that restriction when their PC arcane spellcasters approached 25+ levels, but this was mainly because of playability, and the need to carry their FR game forward. If such a restriction existed without option, then Wizard/Sorcerer PC would need to be retired when they approached the requisite levels.
As for Shar, well, given the balancing nature that the Shadow Weave has against the actual Weave, I would assume the answer to that question to be in the affirmative, but then, I've never read anything to that effect. Maybe it is just thought that such a restriction would be assumed by FR DMs.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 14:09:46
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Oh and Bookwyrm, I hope you don't mind, but I just want to borrow your scroll for a minute to annouce that the D&D SRD (3.5) has been updated to include the rules from the Epic Level Handbook.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Jan 2004 14:11:07 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 16:50:27
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| i would say that Shar dont have the same restictions on her weave since the more powerful spell the more damage and she is all for damage. But i could be wrong. |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 18:14:52
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| that is a very good ? Bookwyrm. 1 thatd id like 2 know the anwser 2, id assum that epic lv spells would be against Mystra |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 18:54:44
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| Well in the essence a metamagic'ed 9th lvl spell that becomes 15th lvl isn't a true 15th lvl spell. Good example is Szass Tam's quickened maximized level drain. Obviously metamagic'ed into higher than 9th lvl but still allowed anyway as shown in the FRCS. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2004 : 20:33:08
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Does anyone know of any epic spells that over the 9th level? The only one I know of is the one Karsus used, Karsus' Avatar (or something like that).
Bookwyrm, I'm not sure if this helps but I think Shar would have the same restrictions on the Shadow Weave. After all, look at what happened to Mystryl when she didn't forbidden spells over the 9th level. I don't think Shar wants her shadow weave users to do that to her so she probably have that restriction too. Of course, this is what I think. I'm not really sure... |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 05:41:37
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Well, most of the High Elven Magic rituals could (to an extent) be considered above the main 9th level power of spells.
Look through the 2e Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves tome for details on these rituals.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2004 : 17:35:53
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Does anyone know of any epic spells that over the 9th level? The only one I know of is the one Karsus used, Karsus' Avatar (or something like that).
Bookwyrm, I'm not sure if this helps but I think Shar would have the same restrictions on the Shadow Weave. After all, look at what happened to Mystryl when she didn't forbidden spells over the 9th level. I don't think Shar wants her shadow weave users to do that to her so she probably have that restriction too. Of course, this is what I think. I'm not really sure...
Hmm . . . very good point, thank you. I think you'd be right on that one.
Epic spells are covered in the 3e Epic Level Handbook (and I guess in the new SRD), and are considered all above ninth level -- but the reader is told that there's really no such thing as "level" for an epic spell. (DCs and the like are calculated as a tenth level spell, but that's it.)
Cherrn, I know about the "Epic levels" shown in the FRCS, but that was overridden by the people who did the ELHB. The thought of those epic slots shown on the spellcasters went through my mind, but I decided to put it in anyway. It's certainly connected to the topic. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Adrian Moonbow
Seeker
Denmark
64 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2004 : 10:23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101
Does anyone know of any epic spells that over the 9th level? The only one I know of is the one Karsus used, Karsus' Avatar (or something like that).
Oh, they had alot of epic spells. It required one or two magics that could be considered epic spells to create their enclaves. I've seen the conversions of the spells on one of the WotC-boards. |
"I would have wanted not to die.
I would have wanted never to grow up!"
-Quidam
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 16:59:22
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| I have a question. Are there any actual time travel spells. Like I know there's spells like Time Stop that stops time for a duration but are there any specific spells that allow a person to go back in time? Also, if there is one, would a spell like that be an epic spell? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:25:50
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| 2 my knowlege there is no time travel spell, but i may be wrong. n id assume that would be epic lv. bucuz, wow thats pretty powerful |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2004 : 22:56:44
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Let me stop you right now friends, Time is not to be tampered with. Those that idly try to influence time with find themselves on the wrong end of retribution they cannot hope to survive from the powers that be. Time is well guarded, be sure of that, and any who meddle with it will regret it.
Well, I will wade in and try and help out here. First there is a difference between 10th level magic and epic magic. This has been said in the past that the two are different. Epic spells are weird, and function differently from conventional magic and therefore do not fall in the same category as normal spells (1st-12th level, though I would hardly call 12th level normal). The real question is would Mystra allow epic spells? It is up to the Dm really, Wizards never ruled on it. I would say no, to be faithful to the history, but I do not know. Metamagic spells, as noted before, are not really increasing in level, the reason that the spell slots go up is to illustrate only a more skilled wizard can prepare that spell in that way (i.e. even though you are powerful enough to cast fireball, you are not powerful enough to cast a maximized fireball), it weird I know. A couple other things, first, Karsus' Avatar is not an epic spell, nor are any tenth or eleventh level spells noted in previous editions. I know it creates a mess, but it just causes problems if you start calling old spells epic without heed to the rules for epic spells. Also, there are two examples of time travel spells "Time Conduit" and "Teleport through Time", as well as a few mysterious spells from a tome about Chronomancers, but I have been forbade by the powers to elaborate. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 01:19:27
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There are also some kind of portals that lets you to go back in time.
What are Nether Scrolls used for?
They seem to be very powerful, can they cause any effect of a long forbidden 10 or 11th lv spell such as time conduit?
If higher lv spells are forbidden how can mythals be created?
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 01:41:06
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Mythals are a binding of different spells, and to answer the question of above 9th level spells, te arcanists of Netheril had many which included-
Karsus's Avatar
Enchantment/Charm‚ Alteration)
(Invocation/Evocation‚
Level: 12
Field: Mentalism
The notes regarding the spell’s essence were nowhere
to be found. It’s believed Mystra, the reincarnated form of
Mystryl, snatched the spell information from the ruins of
Karsus’s enclave and sent it on an eternal journey to the
ends of the universe.
This spell allowed the caster to become a god of his
choosing, replacing a current god with himself the
moment the spell was completed. Whether the gods
received a saving throw, were aware of its casting, and
other factors were unknown.
Karsus spent well over a decade researching this spell.
It was so complex that he had to use a stone-filled gizzard
of a gold dragon and part of the epidermis of the pituitary
gland of the tarrasque just to enchant one of the material
components of the spell.
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 6 hours
Saving Throw: Special
Range: Unlimited
Duration: Unlimited
Area of Effect: One god
Lefeber's Weave Mythal
Invocation/Evocation)
Level: 10
Field: Inventive/Mentalism
Range: Touch
Components: V, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 3 days
Area of Effect: 300’ radius
Saving Throw: None
sphere/lvl
This spell created a spherical force of magic
that required an activation of some sort to
allow entry. All living creatures‚ undead
creatures‚ animated objects‚ and the
like unfamiliar with the activation
adopted this protection used some
of his ideas or created their own
The method used to penetrate
key were unable to penetrate the
perimeter of the spell.
Lefeber included a number
activation formulae for his new
Mythal‚ and the archwizards who
mythal included: somatic movement‚
word‚ or phrase activator; proper alignment
or motivation; riding a specific kind
of mount; humming a few bars of a song;
an item with a magical imprint of some sort.
When creating a mythal, the size of the spherical protection
was based on the level of the spellcaster—this was
the maximum size of the sphere. The size, however, could
be smaller if the arcanist desired. Once cast, the arcanist
lost one level of experience, but was able to attach one
additional spell or effect for every five levels of the caster
rounded down) to the mythal sphere. For instance,
lightning bolt could be attached to the mythal to attack
anyone who neglected to use the activation key to gain
entry, and this lightning bolt would strike as many targets
as the arcanist had levels when the mythal was created.
Mavin's Create Volcano
Conjuration/Summoning)
Level: 10
Field: Inventive
Range: One mile/level
Components: V, M
Duration: One year
Casting Time: 1 day
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None
According to spell notes, the casting of the spell would produce
a minor earthquake in the effect’s area. Within a week, ash
and steam would be seen pouring through the earth. Within a
month, a complete, erupting volcano would be present.
The material components for this spell included a mantle of
sewn diamonds that acted as double-strength ring of fire restitance,
a helm of brilliance, and a mythallar, which was placed at
the site of the volcano. This spell was never cast in Netheril‚ but every arcanist that looked at its formula was convinced that it would do as promised:create a volcano. Numerous ideas were brought forward to rid Netheril of the threat of orcs, goblins, and other undesirable creatures,but the threat to other ground-dwelling creatures (including the dwarves, elves, and other groundling cities) was too great.
Mavin's Earthfast
(Alteration)
Level: 10
Field: Variation/Inventive
Range: one mile/level
Components: V, M
Duration: one year/level Casting Time: 9
Area of Effect: 1 mile/level
Saving Throw: None
This spell was initially created to allow further mining of areas
that were too dangerous to work otherwise. By casting the earthfast
spell, large areas of underground tunnels became impervious
to cave-ins and other similar catastrophes, the magic supporting
the ceiling so that additional mining could continue.
The spell was also used for other purposes, since it also drastically
halted the weathering of city streets and buildings. Many
cities sought out archwizards who would cast the earthfast spell
to preserve important areas of their community.
The material components for this spell were a stone of controlling
earth elementals, six chardalyns (each of which was
imbued with a transmute mud to rock spell), and an earth elemental.
All of the components were consumed during casting.
Mavin's Worldweave
(Conjuration/Summoning, Necromancy, Alteration)
Level: 11
Field: Inventive
Range: Sight
Components: V, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 10
Area of Effect: one mile/lvl
Saving Throw: None
The worldweave allowed an archwizard to change the weather
patterns of a large parcel of land until dispelled. Throughout
Netheril’s existence, this spell was used hundreds of times to stay
the effects of the polar ice in its northern borders. This gave
Netheril’s land a temperate climate instead of one more suited for
its placement on the globe—a subarctic clime.
With cast, the archwizard was able to change the climate of an
area by one grade—either up or down. Refer to the table below
to determine the grade changes possible. It was possible to
change the climate more than one step, but multiple layers of
Mavin’s worldweave were required.
Tropic Subtropic Temperate Subarctic
Arctic 4 3 2 1
Subarctic 3 2 1 —
Temperate 2 1 — 1
Subtropic 1 — 1 2
Proctiv's Breach Crystal Sphere(Alteration)
Level: 11
Field: Variation
Range: Touch
Components: V, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 1 turn
Area of Effect: One sphere Saving Throw: None
This spell allowed the caster to permanently close a crystal
sphere to all traffic (if the reverse of the spell was used), though
teleport spells would function. Casting the spell in its normal
form superseded any previous seal cast on it, and traffic through
the sphere was once again possible. (Any sphere sealed by this
spell before the fall of Netheril was closed and cannot be entered
except through the use of teleport spells).
The sealing of a sphere prevented spelljamming vessels from
entering its space. Only through planar travel, teleportation
magic, or other mystical means could one gain entry to a crystal
sphere sealed by this spell.
The material component for this spell was a 100-ton spelljamming
vessel that contained a major helm, which was consumed at
the utterance of the spell.
Proctiv's Move Mountain(Alteration)
Level: 10
Field: Variation
Range: Sight
Components: V, M
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 2 hours
Area of Effect: Mountain
Saving Throw: None
This spell was vital in the construction of enclaves. Without
this spell, there was no simple way for severed mountains to be
turned over and set afloat above the landscape.
When this spell was cast, the archwizard simply viewed the
mountain he wanted to affect and the mountain was severed from
the earth, leaving a flat mesa behind. The mountain was then
turned over so the flat side was up, and the move mountain spell
allowed this new structure to levitate. Once this was accomplished,
the archwizard could begin constructing a city upon its
smooth surface.
The material components for this spell were a mythallar
(which needed
magical device
to be placed in the new city within two weeks), a
that allowed flying or levitation, and a crystal ball.
Tolodine's Killing Wind
(Conjuration/Summoning)
Level: 10
Field: Inventive
Range: 100 yd/lvl
Components: V
Duration: 1 hr/lvl
Casting Time: 1 round
Area of Effect: 100 yd/lvl
Saving Throw: Special
Creatures caught within the cloud were entitled to a single saving
throw versus spells to resist being killed by the spell.
Creatures made a saving throw with a modifier based on the caster’s
sacrifice.
Tolodine’s killing wind was designed to kill large numbers of
creatures, and it worked well. When cast, billowing vapors moved
away from the caster at an incredible rate of speed, overtaking
anything within the area of effect unless magical means were
used to escape.The casting of this spell automatically drained two life-levels from the caster (though for purposes of area of effect, range, and
duration, the caster’s original level was used). In addition, the
caster could opt to sacrifice more life energy, imposing a -
penalty to all saving throws for every two levels so sacrificed (up
a maximum of -10). The one side effect to this, however, was
that there was a 5% chance per level drained voluntarily that the
caster’s essence would be pulled into the Negative Energy plane
forever.If pulled into the Negative Material Plane, one of two things
occurred. If the caster was alive, the essence was consumed and
the caster killed. The spellcaster was lost forever and couldn’t be
resurrected or brought back to life in any way. If the spellcaster
was undead, the essence continued to exist but it was trapped in
the Negative Material Plane.
Valdick's Spheresail
(Conjuration/Summoning)
Level: 10
Field: Inventive
Range: Touch
Components: V
Duration: Permanent
Casting Time: 9
Area of Effect: One watercraft
Saving Throw: None
Outside a crystal sphere, the spheresail spell focused on the gravitational
energies of the destination sphere, pulling itself along these
lines, gaining speed. By using this spell, a spelljamming vessel could
traverse the distance in half the time ordinary spelljamming crafts
were able to move.
Cast upon a vessel designed specifically for spelljamming or on
any watercraft, the spell was permanent until dispelled by an arcanist
of equal or greater level. The effects of the spheresail could be
turned off and activated at will as many times daily as needed.
The archwizard Valdick loved to travel—not through the planes,
but through the Prime Material plane. Travel between crystal
spheres was his favorite, but he didn’t like the amount of time
required to traverse these long distances, therefore he created the
spheresail spell.
Within a crystal sphere, the spell dipped directly into the magical
forces of the goddess Mystryl and converted this raw power into
motion‚ giving the spelljamming craft great spell (a maximum
Movement Rate of 20 near planets or double-spelljamming speed in
the intervening space between celestial bodies). This allowed the
user to go from one planet to another quickly or from one city to
another at lightning speed.
Unlike spelljamming helms, which converted magical energy
into motive force, the spheresail gained its power from one of two
sources, depending upon where it was being used.
I hope this gave you a bit of insight into the Netherese spells. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 02:09:11
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These are incredibly powerful spells. Thanks for that great info, Shadowlord.
But I heard that Nether Scrolls has some kind of a power inside makin the reader gain many levels immidiately(just a rumour, I know nearly nothing but rumours about these scrolls). But I couldn't find anything about them besides they were stolen long ago.
I wonder if they have such power inside, shouldn't they be affected by the limitations.
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 03:46:19
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No problem Roewyn. As for the Nether Scrolls-
This set of 50 scrolls was the foundation for magic use by the
Netherese, perhaps by all of the sentient races that developed
on Faerûn. Some races, like the elves, brought their own magic
with them when they migrated to Toril‚ and it’s doubtful that
their style of magic use was influenced much by the nether
scrolls. But for the Netherese, their ability to use magic and the
wisdom contained within the nether scrolls were forever
entwined. It’s unknown who created the nether scrolls. Some believed that they were gifts left by the Creator Races to the humans of Toril. Others believe that they were a gift from Mystryl, the goddess of magic. Other beliefs hold that the nether scrolls are of unworldly origin, perhaps from the outer planes or from some
crystal sphere beyond Realmspace. What was known about the nether scrolls was that they appeared as sheets of gold and platinum. They were covered with magical runes and sigils that shimmered upon their surface. Anyone who saw them immediately knew that they contained
magical power and wisdom. The small size of each scroll belied its content: Magic weaved its way across the surface, turning a quick-reading page of text into a tome that would take months to finish. In addition, there never seemed to be an end to the amount of information contained on a single scroll. As one developed in the
mystical arts and re-read the scrolls, new passages and spells
appeared. The nether scrolls were immune to all magical effects,
including disintegration spells and other harmful magic. They
could be hammered into an unrecognizable mass, however, as
was demonstrated a few times in Netheril’s long history.
Eventually, the magic of the nether scrolls would recombine
lost pieces of itself, but the time required for such a rebirth was
long (it’s unknown if it has reformed currently, but the Netherese never saw the scrolls reform themselves). The nether scrolls were unlike normal scrolls in that their magic wasn’t just sitting there to be read like a normal scroll.Instead, they were to be studied and pored over, the reader searching for new pieces of magical lore. They were unable to be duplicated by any means, and the Netherese kept them as safe as they could until finally losing the last scroll.
The scrolls appeared to be divided into five sections of 10
scrolls each. Just like the scrolls themselves, however, this five part organization could have disappeared after enough study.
Arcanus Fundare
These first scrolls provided the basics of spellcasting, including
the use of cantras, spell components, and the various magical
schools (such as alteration and invocation, among many others).
These schools were the very foundation on which magic use was
built, though the Netherese chose to combine them into three categories
(Inventive, Mentalism, and Variation).
Magicus Creare
These scrolls detailed the creation of magical items yet hinted at
a wide range of possibilities beyond the basic construction of
such items. Magical items that became a part of the creator were
hinted at, as was the creation of sentient magical items for specific
purposes. Most of the scrolls were stolen or destroyed
before much work could be done in this area, however.
Maior Creare
The Creation Scrolls, as arcanists quickly referred to them,
detailed the process of creating magical constructs, such as
golems. More than that, they also taught the elements of creating
living wards (artificial items designed to augment an arcanist—
weak example would be something akin to eyes of minute seeing)
and sentient wards (items that actually thought for themselves and
had the ability to perform actions, such as an extra hand that
would activate a staff to protect itself). Finally, these scrolls detailed the properties of antimagic as projected by creatures like beholders. It also discussed ways to both create and destroy dead-magic areas.
Planus Mechanicus
Not only did these scrolls detail planar mechanics, explaining
how the different planes of existence were related to one another
and how magic worked in each plane, they also detailed the
process by which to create pocket planes. These scrolls were the
ones that the archmage Shadow (now known as Telamont Tanthul) studied over the course of his life, and he was the foremost expert on planes in all of Netheril.
Ars Factum
This final set of the nether scrolls provided the foundation for the
actual creation of artifacts from scratch. It was the most difficult
to fathom and required extensive knowledge of all other nether
scrolls before one could unlock its power. A few arcanists tried
anyway, however, and ended up creating the Crown of Horns and
the Scepter of the Sorcerer-Kings.
Well, this is all I know of the Nether Scrolls. I hope this helped you, as it took me forever to compile.... Should you require anything else, do not hesitate to ask. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:16:17
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| Thanks for the info, Shadowlord. BTW, are those epic spells or are they just really powerful? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 04:20:56
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These spells are what could be considered epic, though they wouldn't work in the present realms, what with the sundering of the Weave and all. They are 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells which, if mages had access to today, could jeopardize the safety of all Toril! |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 05:53:17
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| Hmm...interesting. Anyways, I recently re-installed BG2 and ToB and there is a 10th level spell called "Comet". Shouldn't a comet spell be banned from Faerun like the other ones you mentioned since flaming rocks from space aren't exactly good for you? Lol. Or is it because it's a video game and they just let you have powerful spells? |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 09:17:11
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Thanks again Shadowlord, you certainly clarified me.
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 19:11:42
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A little Q&A:
quote:
Originally posted by DDH_101:
I recently re-installed BG2 and ToB and there is a 10th level spell called "Comet". Shouldn't a comet spell be banned from Faerun like the other ones you mentioned since flaming rocks from space aren't exactly good for you? Or is it because it's a video game and they just let you have powerful spells?
More or less. I my memory serves, they are technicaly quest spells, or at least the priestly ones, which is something from, I think, Tome of Magic? I am not quite sure, its been a long time. Also, certain people were allowed to cast 10th level magic after Mystra Ban, that is the Elves and the Chosen, respectively. Next:
quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn:
If higher level spells are forbidden how can mythals be created?
Well, firstly, all mythals, save one, were crafted using a brand of magic that defies the laws of magic in many ways. Its called Elven High Magic, and it has been proven not something to be triffled with. Essentially, though technically the Ritual of the Myriad, used to craft mythals, is incredibly powerful Mystra does not ban it. This is mainly because she has, in the past, shown she trusts Elves not to abuse the Weave, as much, hence why she allowed them to continue casting tenth level magic. In case you were wondering about the Ritual of the Myriad, here it is:
quote:
Originally from Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves:
High Magic Mythals
The Old Ways are, of course, the best and most proper way to create mythals. Kept secret for so long, mythals themselves have become legends even among the elves of Cormanthyr, though there are at least seven secretive High Mages among all the spellcasters of the Coronal's realm who know the secrets of how to construct a High Magic mythal. Only three of them live and serve within the capital.
A Ritual of Myriad slowly links the casters of the ritual (a central quartet and a circle of nine assistants). The eldest High Mage acts as the focus of the ritual (known as the Grand Caster); he is surrounded by a circle of three Major Casters. While the Grand Caster builds the central energy sphere from which the mythal grows, the three Major Casters help shape the mythal in height, breadth, and depth. The Grand Caster sets one grand power of the mythal, which often matches the purpose for the mythal#146;s formation; he also sets one major and one minor power. The three Major Casters each grant a major and minor power to the mythal as well.
Surrounding this foursome is a concentric circle of nine spellcasters; since at least three more High Mages are required for the working, this third ring of nine people often consists of those three High Mages with six high-level wizards or High Mage initiates (if not full High Mages). Only the central four High Mages are actually casting the mythal; the outer nine are secondary casters adding powers to the mythal and energy to the link between all casters. Each of the secondary casters can add up to two minor powers each to the mythal.
If a mythal is expected to cloak a very large area, the needs for energy with which to expand the mythal are great; in these cases, additional folks are drawn into the link and ritual for that very purpose. Encircling the third ring might be a
fourth ring of 27 elves, followed (as needed) by a fifth ring of 81 elves. Elves of the fourth and fifth rings need not be spellcasters, for they are simply providing energy for the spellcasters to weave into the mythal. They cannot add any powers to the mythal, though any beings involved in this ritual feel a blissful rapture while in the communal link.
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Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 00:36:15
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Are only elves able to create mythals?
I know it is my ignorance but besides Elminister I never heardd of any human mythal creater after netheril |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 00:56:28
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| Humans never created mythals; during the time of Netheril the humans employed something called a mythallar, what is essentially a magical battery, that draws in magic from around them intot he mythallar to power the Netherese enclaves' powerful enchantments, such as the flying magic they used to stay aloft. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 04:00:26
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| Yes, thank you Sage (FYI I finally dug up the Tome of Magic). The mage spells probably are True Dweomers or something of that sort, i.e. really powerful spells detailed in the Dungeons Masters Option - High level Campaigns, or at least something liek that. There were some exceptions to the 10th level ban, but not many. Although I should note, 11th and 12th level magic is completely forbidden. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 06:18:47
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Actually discussions of this nature always bring to mind the many issues I (and many other gamers) had with the 2e 4th level Priest spell 'Addition'. This was an extremely overpowered spell, especially for the level at which it was located.
I'm not saying that such a spell should be considered Epic in today's 3e ranking of spell power, but I would have considered most of the abilities that this spell made available would put it into the 8th, 9th, or even beyond level of power.
In my opinion, to maintain this spell at 4th level would require a number of specific restrictions, the first being a sentence or two on the exclusion of the possible creation of low-level magical items.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 20:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
Thanks again Shadowlord, you certainly clarified me.
No problem, Roewyn. Drow, Faerie Elves, Netheril, the Underdark, and Deities are my specialties, should you require anything else. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 21:25:11
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| Sage, while I can see how that spell could be abused, i think fi ti is the DM needs to read the spell again. It works a lot like a Wish spell, in that the player has only finite control over what they create. Say a play wants to create a "magic sward", a magic sword that magically sings could be the DM choice in weapon, since the player has no control over the magical properties. While adding a Rule Zero addition could be useful to dissuage players, I can see a player who tries to abuse the spell very easily being put in their place. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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EcThelion
Learned Scribe
Norway
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:11:48
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quote:
After all, look at what happened to Mystryl when she didn't forbidden spells over the 9th level.
What happened to her? |
Ec'Thelion, formerly known as Forgotten One, now known as Ec'Thelion the Overpowered.
Currently not all that active. I'm preoccupied with Warcraft III for the moment. Bite me :P |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2004 : 02:20:36
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The "Karsus Incident"
Karsus, feeling the responsibility for Netheril’s future on his shoulders, felt that it was his duty to weld the nation back together. He fmished a spell that he’d been working on for years and then cast it upon himself. This spell, called Karsus’s avatar, was the only 12th-level spell ever created. It was designed to temporarily steal the powers of a deity. When he cast the spell, he chose Mystryl, the goddess of magic, in the process changing forever the way magic functions. Knowledge has always outweighed wisdom, and Karsus was no exception. His body swelled with the sudden influx of godly power, and his mind filled with unimaginable knowledge. Karsus instantly realized the horrible mistake he had made: He stole the power from the one goddess he shouldn’t have. Mystryl’s position called for one of the aspects of her psyche to constantly rework the weave of magic—the weave that Netheril and its glut of magic and the phaerimm with their magic drain spells constantly threatened to
unravel. When Mystryl lost her ability to keep the weave of essential magic (magic in its purest unschooled and unfielded form)intact, the inundation of magic surged and fluctuated, and the effects of all things magical doubled for a time—a short time. Mystryl sacrificed herself to save the weave before the damage became irreparable. This broke Karsus’s link to her magic and obstructed the weave, causing all magic to briefly cease functioning. Without the infusion of magic, the floating cities of Netheril fell, and Karsus was instantly slain. His bloated body petrified and toppled from the high plateau above his floating city and plummeted to earth. As his body fell, his stony eyes, still shimmering with the last glint of godly omniscience, caught a glimpse of the cities of Netheril smashing to the ground, killing all their inhabitants. His heart broke—greed for the power of the deities themselves caused the destruction of his home, his family,his friends, and his people.
When Mystryl reincarnated herself—this time as Mystra—she used the form of a beautiful peasant girl learning the basics of cantra magic but with the capacities for archwizardry. Her first priority was to recreate the weave of magic. This time, she made magic follow a few more rules, and no spell above 10th level would function. By the time she was completed, she was able to save only three of Netheril’s floating cities; the rest were utterly destroyed. These three—Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath—were high enough above the ground to survive. The cities safely landed, and the survivors stumbled away from the cities in shock. Priests and priestesses of the new goddess of magic were told the story of Karsus in dreams and visions when they prayed for spells. It was Mystra’s attempt to make sure that nothing like this ever happened again. Yet Karsus was accredited as being the only human to have ever achieved godhood through spellcasting, even if was only for a fleeting moment.
Within a few short months, the inhabitants of the surviving
three cities left, fearful of the phaerimm, the gods, and the orcs.
About one-third migrated northward, with the rest traveling
south to create the shadows—or “survivor states” for the optimistic-
of Netheril; Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Epic Spells in the Realms
