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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 15:31:51
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While brainstorming for my campaign I got the idea to set up a 'religious politics' story. I need to get a proper view of the reach of the influence of the clergies in the Realms.
So I was thinking if I collect all locations of the prime temples of the dieties I'd get a proper idea of the geopolitical power of each deity. I stumbled across Candlekeeps collection of known named temples, and I'll use these to determine the most important temple (as seen in the divine politics of that church around the end of the 3.5 era).
For example, Mystra's most important/biggest temple (as far as I can gather) is the High Temple of Mystra on mount Talath in north east Halruua. This would in turn allow me to make a proper portrayal of the hierarchy of the clergy members elsewhere. The high priest of the House of Wonder in Waterdeep would sometimes discuss matters with his superior in Halruua for matters where he doubts his own judgement is sufficient.
My campaign at the moment deals with the church of Gond, Kossuth, Mystra, Bane, the Mordinsamman, Tyr, Ilmater, Auril, Istishia and Loviatar, so I'll start with these.
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Deity - Temple name - location
Assuran (Hoar) - The Thunderous Hand of Vengeance - Akanax (Chessenta)
Auril - the Winter Palace - Luskan (the North)
Bane - House of the Black Lord - Amruthar (western border of Thay) AND/OR
the Black Lord's Altar - Mourktar (Unther)
Cyric - Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse - Amn
Deneir - Spirit Soaring - Snowflake Mountains (Erlkazar)
Gond - High Holy Crafthouse of Inspiration - Illul (Lantan)
Ilmater - House of the Broken God - Keltar (Calimshan)
Istishia - Palace of the Cresting Winds - Calimport (Calimshan)
Kossuth - Flaming Brazier - Bezantur (Thay)
Loviatar - The High House of Hurting - Mulmaster (the Moonseas)
Lurue - Unicorn Run - Star Mounts (Silver Marches)
Moradin - The Hall of Moradin's Forge - Citadel Adbar (Silver Marches)
Mystra - High Temple of Mystra - Mnt Talath (North East Halruua)
Selune - Moonshadow Hall - Yhaunn (Sembia) OR
- House of the Moon - Waterdeep
Silvanus - Oakenhall (The House of Silvanus) - Ilighôn (Emerald Island in the Vilhon Reach)
Sune - The House of Firehair - Daerlun (Sembia)
Tyr - the Hall of High Justice - Saelmur (Lake of Steam)
Waukeen - Goldspires - Athkatla (Amn)
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Any ideas for determinig the proper location of a church political power center? Think a different temple should be the main one? Discuss below, while I update the list with more divine power centers.
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Edited by - Bladewind on 02 Mar 2013 17:52:35
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2013 : 15:50:06
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The one I mentioned for Auril might not be the true center of power. I had to make a choice from these:
Icedawn’s House (South of Neshkel)
The House of Auril’s Breath (Glister)
The Towers of Fury (Calimport)
The Winter Palace (Luskan)
Frostspires Tower (PftF) (?)
I chose Luskan as the center just because the name of the temple comes across as the most grand. But is there a reference somewhere that has the Icedawn's House or perhaps the Frostspires Tower as more important? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 13:08:56
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Since there are no bricks-and-wood-type of temples in Rashemen, perhaps we can consider the entire land of Urlingwood as the "shared temple" of Mielikki, Selune, and Chauntea? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 13:39:22
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I've always gotten the feeling that that part of the world - the part that once belonged solely to the Raumvari peoples - answer to 'more ancient' powers.
Its an area where something akin to the Moonshaes' Earthmother would hold more sway then Chauntea (although called by other names). In fact, Elaine made a tenuous connection between the Raumvari of Rashemen, the Northmen of the Swordcoast (and by extension that part of the Moonshaes they control), and even 'ancient fey powers' in her Liriel series. I believe Mark Sehestedt made further connections in his last novel (I haven't read it yet), with his use of the Lythari in the east. Plus we've had the Yuirwood 'Yuir Totems' since the beginning.
There is some more... primordial... going on there.
EDIT: Just checked the FRIA, and I don't see any temples in that part of the map... weird. There are tons of them elsewhere in the Realms (especially in the Lands of Intrigue). That just helps reconfirm my suspicions about that region - deities are more like 'interlopers' there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Feb 2013 13:50:30 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 14:59:40
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Your talking about Rashemen? Indeed, it has no brick and mortar temples what so ever... Had not considered that temples can be part of the natural landscape.
I'd still see Selune and Chauntea favoring well defendable cathedrals as their most holy center of worship. For example, I'd say Selunes highest level priests are largely concentrated in the Western Heartlands, and they deem their churches The High Alter of the Moon (Iriaebor) or the Moonmaidens Hall (Murann) as the most important. Chaunteas priest are more likely to prefer a natural location as the most holy, so I guess they have the Glade of Life in the High Forest protected by their most sacred and revered elder priests.
It seems as though the northern lands feature more centers of worship to the Gods of Fury and the Elemental Lords, except for Talos and Istishia who hold quite some sway in the southern parts of Faerun. So aye, their area of influence is likely to originate from the north and tries to sweep down and through the domains of influence of the southern diety heavy areas (Tethyr, Calimshan, Lake of Steam, Mulhorand).
Bane is odd, he has very few temples (only 3 major ones in Thay, the Lake of Steam and the Moonsea) for a god of conquest... Perhaps his clergy just prefers to consolidate its powers. |
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 15:30:33
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About Kossuth . . . He cannot have a temple in Thay. Unless he and his followers (outside Thay) could forget and forgive what Szass Tam did to those "kind" worshipers who sided with the lich's enemies.
The Flaming Brazier of Eltabbar was probably turned to Bane's temple after the Civil War. Or worse, now used as common storage "room." |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 27 Feb 2013 15:34:30 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 20:03:11
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| Bane's prime temple is in Mourktar, it's in Dragons of Faerun and Faith and Avatars I think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 21:38:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I'd still see Selune and Chauntea favoring well defendable cathedrals as their most holy center of worship. For example, I'd say Selunes highest level priests are largely concentrated in the Western Heartlands, and they deem their churches The High Alter of the Moon (Iriaebor) or the Moonmaidens Hall (Murann) as the most important.
I should think that the House of the Moon in Waterdeep would be considered one of Selûne's most important temples -- Selûne has long favored Waterdeep, and spent time in the city both before and during the Time of Troubles. Plus, Waterdeep is also home to the Moon Sphere, as described in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2013 : 22:57:02
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Shar appeared in Waterdeep during the Time of Troubles aswell, didn't she?
You make an excellent point there, Wooly. I agree, the locations where a deity walked Torils surface must hold a special significance for its clergy. Waterdeep might be considered a very important religious center just because of this. Selunite priests from this 'city graced by the gods' might have been starting to claim more audience and state their opinions more freely because of the confidence they had gained.
When did Szass destroy the Flaming Brazier? I don't think a primordial is easily provoked by mortal actions, but toppling his greatest temple in the region the Fire Lord has the most influence surely has upset its surviving clergy (of which few are of the Thayan branch). Hmm, I need to incorporate this into my campaign! The Imperial Flame in Calimport is the next best choice for Kossuths center of worship, probably burning for revenge against Thay. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 00:45:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Shar appeared in Waterdeep during the Time of Troubles aswell, didn't she?
Yes. Shar and Selûne battled against one another as mortals during the Time of Troubles. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 01:41:48
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| Shar's major temple would be the Hall of Shadows since the Shade Enclave re-entered Torils Prime, as it obviously houses her first Nightseer. Before that the Temple of Old Night (Calimport) must have had a similarly powerful servant of Shar. Anyone know who this leader of the Temple of the Old Night was? |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 10:39:53
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Irtemara el Eradsari
Silvanus' center is the Emerald Enclave island. |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2013 : 11:36:12
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The center of Bane´s power is around the Moonsea, i rather see it in Mulmaster, the traditional seat of the High Imperceptors and Zhentil Keep when Fzoul ran the Black Network with the Church of Bane as the chosen of Bane. I do not see it further east.
This also leaves out that there are several banite centers all over Faerun and the list is not even listing the religious areas in Zhentil Keep or Mourktar, so i say it is far from complete and not a good referance to look for political centers.
Especially Mourktar in Unther is a very influental site of Bane´s power as it is(by the end of 3rd edition) still the largest temple dedicated to Bane even though the main impact of Bane is in the Moonsea where his chosen resides.
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The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 15:19:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
When did Szass destroy the Flaming Brazier? I don't think a primordial is easily provoked by mortal actions, but toppling his greatest temple in the region the Fire Lord has the most influence surely has upset its surviving clergy (of which few are of the Thayan branch). Hmm, I need to incorporate this into my campaign! The Imperial Flame in Calimport is the next best choice for Kossuths center of worship, probably burning for revenge against Thay.
I didn't say it was destroyed. I'll tell you what happened, but be warned that if you haven't read The Haunted Lands series yet, all these would be spoilers . . .
Before the catastrophic civil war in Thay, Szass Tam gave Kossuth's priests magical wands that produce fire and/or augment the Firelord's summoned fire to "help" them rid some villages of the undead which he "claimed" was not his doing.
When the civil war broke and the then High Priest of Kossuth Iphegor Nath sided with the united zulkirs against Szass Tam, and when those priests who still had the wands were fighting one of Szass Tam's undead legions, he (of course) activated the wands' self-destruct "program," killing all those poor priests. (Ironic, I know, that the very fire that they served could be the instrument of their destruction.)
Most importantly, Szass Tam had made a bargain with Bane. There's more to that, but I'll only mention what's relevant at hand--Thay would only have one religion: Bane's.
As for Flaming Brazier, Szass Tam would have thought it a waste to just destroy it. He'd probably make it another undead factory and appoint another of Xingax's kind to run it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 01 Mar 2013 15:23:25 |
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LastStand
Learned Scribe
130 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:31:29
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I can't confirm this, but I gathered from the novel Mistress of the Night, when I read it quite a while ago, that Moonshadow Hall (Yhaunn) was a very important temple for the Selunite clergy - if not the main one. Either it or the those in Waterdeep.
However, I don't have the book handy to confirm this - another scribe might shed some light. |
"Don't. The battlegrounds that you and I have returned from alive are too different."
~ Claymore ch106 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:39:55
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| Lurue's main point of worship is the Unicorn Run in the High Forest. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2013 : 21:40:39
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| Lurue's main point of worship is the Unicorn Run in the High Forest. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2013 : 14:07:25
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| Deneir's main place of worship was the Spirit soaring run by Cadderly until it got burnt down of course. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2013 : 15:38:24
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It might be interesting to take the historic origin points of movements of humans of the past into account. The Talfiric (Chiontar valley - Western Heartlands), Gur (Ancient Thay/Rashemen), (Netherese (Netheril), Jhaamdathi (Vilhon Reach), Untheric (Unther) and Mulhorandi (Raurin) people brought with them their pantheons influence in their respective regions.
The Talfiric people were the first people mentioned as worshipping Tempus, who destroyed the Netherese god Garagos from the east, when the two divinely contested areas of worship merged (a great time to set a war campaign).
With the Gur known as Selune's Children, they probably were the first to have build a temple to her. Perhaps a more eastern location for a major temple to Selunes still stands (despite the many wars of the area around Thay)?
Netherese based from the Netheril valleys that now form the Anauroch, had a profound religious influence, evidenced in the near unstoppable growth of their priesthoods (Shar, Selune, Chauntea, Jergal, Tymora/Beshaba(Tyche and Mystra) into Faeruns other regions. One could even hypothesise that most faerunian cathedrals are build in netherese architectural style as a result of their many years of religious expansion.
Jhaamdathi priesthoods have been influential in the past aswell, but only Lathander, Helm (and perhaps Murdane), Deneir and Auppenser have any religious structures left from this period of religious prosperity.
The Zakharan, Untheric, Mulhorandi, Chultan and Maztican pantheons all have been quite limited in the expension of their pantheons areas of influence (apart form the ambitious period of the Mulhorandi pantheon at the end of the 3.5 era). |
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2013 : 17:46:18
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Sune - The House of Firehair in Daerlun in Sembia
Cyric - Twin Towers of the Eternal Eclipse in Amn |
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Centers of worship
