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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 03:08:53
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quote:
Markustay
... Gnoll Mummies. Gnoll Mummies are cool. This setting needs more Gnoll Mummies. 
This is an interesting notion. We know a little about monstrous deities and religions, and some monsters like dragons probably consume or destroy (or gloat over the trophy) corpses of their kind. But are there orc graveyards, goblin cemetaries, gnoll mummies?
Goblinoids must do something with the remains of their greatest champions. Crude mounds and barrows, elaborate mummification within treasure-filled tombs, vampiric immortality, magically petrified memorials? Are they such lazy insensitive brutes that (after claiming any items of value) their dead are simply discarded wherever they fall? Or are there sacred burial sites, something like a fanatically-guarded orc graveyard where all orc tribes in Faerūn offer their fallen (and some sacrificial victims) to Gruumsh? Are there vast kobold cemetaries? (Indeed, are these vast cemetaries overrun with kobold zombies and skeletons?) Do new chieftains among fire giants eat the flaming hearts of their predecessors as a symbolic rite of promotion? Do hobgoblins chain demihuman slaves to their fallen shamans to serve in the afterlife? The possibilities seem endless - and I would not expect uncivilized human monsters to be constrained by civilized human mores.
Human cultures primarily resort to burial (or sea burial) or cremation, sometimes mummification within grand monuments, sometimes ancestors are (at least partly) consumed in cannabalistic rituals. I've heard of one human tribe which cremated the dead and mixed all the ashes into a communal pile, from which small amounts would be boiled into a sort of tea or soup which would be consumed by tribe members during ceremonial rites or times of spiritual crisis (sounds gross, but consumed to provide a spiritual link to the strength/wisdom of the ancestors, etc) ... completely wiped out by smallpox ...
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2013 03:15:43
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 04:07:18
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IIRC, there are a couple of references to orc tombs, generally for great heroes. They're mentioned in passing to be places for players to loot, obviously. But there really isn't much else written about what they do after death.
It's a good candidate for an Ask Ed question, but I do have a couple of thoughts. All of the options you give are I think feasible, though I think the most likely would be for the dead to just be thrown out of the cave (if they're closer to the surface) or into a pit (if they're underground). If the orcs get creative, they could use the corpses as bait for hunting. In duress, they can be eaten.
The one exception is mummification. That's tied to both a climate (ie: desert) and a culture that is alien to goblinoids. It also requires huge quantities of linen, and decent quantities of various preservative spices, which again is not exactly common in the badlands and mountains that are their general home. If you want to include mummies, I'd go with the frozen equivalent that leads us very rarely to find frozen Neanderthals or Cro-Magnon people on Earth. There's got to be thousands of frozen corpses scattered across the north. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 04:28:03
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| We know of at least 1 dragon graveyard in the heartlands. I'd have to look into where it is, but I know it was described once upon a time. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 13:01:29
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Well of Dragons, between Skull Gorge and the village of Ladydove (which is on the border between the Goblin Marches and the Tunlands).
I've never really made notes of monster graveyards - I probably should have. There are several Netherese sites in the North as well (Do 'shades' count as monsters, and is there anything to bury when they die?)
The province of Thazalhar (in Thay) could be considered one, massive orcish graveyard. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 13:31:23
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not a province... Tharch... minor quibble
On Orcs, their culture just might have them devouring their greatest champions, kind of like how you eat the heart of your first deer kill to get its strength. Of course, some tribes might be less barbaric, but it could be a good explanation for why there aren't many orc graveyards. When it comes to goblins and hobgoblins.... well they do need to feed the worgs. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 14:12:29
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Except 'province' is a word in the English language, and I am addressing a RW audience. That particular phrasing wasn't a mistake - it was choice I made considering that not all folk who come to CK might be 'FR experts'.
Just sayin'.... 
Anyhow, the only time I've heard of Orcs practicing cannibalism (even outside of other Orcs) is in the case of extreme hunger, and even humans have been know to do that (otherwise we'd have none of those sexy Wendigos). However, there are VAST differences from tribe to tribe, and region to region, so it is safe to assume some may practice what you've put forth.
I prefer to think they'd just burn them (unless they were a 'great hero', in which case they'd get a cairn). Any sane group living on a world with a plethora of undead would do so. Burying bodies is basically an open invitation for a ghoul infestation. Graveyards (in D&D) are nothing more then necrotic 'soup kitchens' of the damned. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 14:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've never really made notes of monster graveyards - I probably should have. There are several Netherese sites in the North as well (Do 'shades' count as monsters, and is there anything to bury when they die?)
This is interesting. I suddenly have this image of hundreds of phaerimm carcases rotting in some mass surface graveyard as an Enclave floats above it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 22:37:38
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I'm thinking most of those phaerimm corpses are zorched, blasted, burnt, pierced, mangled, pulped ... sort of as a consequence of violently meeting magic, steel, and death. Then again, maybe the Shadovar use them as rich fertilizer, or the carcasses are eaten by whatever sorts of Shadowfell vultures and vermin were brought to the Realms on the underside of Shade. (Hey, it's almost impossible to fully exterminate rat populations in cities and ships, how much worse must it be for "shadowrats"?)
Shade corpses might fade or sink into the shadows, at best leaving behind "empty" withered colourless husks. Perhaps they just burst into flame in sunlight or mysteriously vanish when left undisturbed overnight. Not canon, but it seems comparable to the idea of liches (and vampires) crumbling into loose piles of dust and bones when killed. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2013 22:42:52 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2013 : 23:13:06
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| lol, that's what I'm here for. Rape and pillage my prolix lexicon for those precious gems of creative lore. Shadowrats do seem to be a finely pervasive species (especially if the little buggers can shadowstep!), I'm looking forward to reading your monster entry. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2013 23:16:45 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 02:06:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I'm thinking most of those phaerimm corpses are zorched, blasted, burnt, pierced, mangled, pulped ... sort of as a consequence of violently meeting magic, steel, and death.
I'd imagine a great many of the phaerimm corpses would simply be emaciated -- a consequence of them being starved of magic to feed on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 06:39:10
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Ed described that dragon graveyard in one of the Volo's Guides, BTW, but I'm on assignment right now away from home, and can't check which one or provide page numbers.
love,
THO |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2013 : 07:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
elaborate mummification within treasure-filled tombs
I just love the idea that the PCs come upon a hobgoblin warchief's tomb, loot it and then get chased by a band of 4 goblinoids (which include a thief, cleric, mage and fighter) who are trying to retrieve the stolen goods. Alas the human band retreat to human settlements and so the 4 hobgoblins must disguise themselves as humans to infiltrate the town (where they promptly kill the town mayor and priest in order to send the humans into disarray to limit the amount of attacks these humans will do on the hobgoblin settlement).
Then in the big climactic battle the hobgoblin fighter steps forward and condemns the thieves to death and challenges the PC leader to an honourable fight to the death. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2013 : 17:48:56
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The cold moors and plains of Thar have a number of ancient battlefields and burial grounds for orcs, ogres and giants. For an example see a quote from TSR9474 "The Moonsea" p.31 :
quote:
The Lone Tower
This tall granite tower was built to protect the Moonsea
against Thar. Years ago it was a scene of a great
slaughter between the humans of Thar and beings
from the north.
There is a round field, called the Giant's Cairn, surrounding
the Tower. The barren stretch is dotted with
great burial mounds capped with stones. I have been
told that some inscriptions on the stones are curses
that summon giants, but that sounds too far-fetched
to be true. Many of Thar's humanoids who died at the
Lone Tower are said to be buried at the Giants' Cairn.
Some 'more nefarious' monster races (creatures such as naga, rakshasa, ogre magi and certain lizardfolk tribes) are likely to see the corpses of their own kind as valuable necromantic resources. They'd have deviced all manner of uses for their dead, for example as mummified heads used for advice with speak with dead spells, powerful spell components, skeletal guardians and talismans or as a zombie (and eventual skeletal) workforce.
Trolls (and other simple giantkin) in particular are said to have shaman who specialize in bonecharm magic, able to make a meriad of magic charms, potions, oils and weapons from bones. A special soup, ground from human and demihuman bones, is said to have vigorous effect on troll metabolisms.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2013 : 13:39:29
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Don't know for sure, but the Grand History of the Realms mentiones a location in the Sword Mountains north of Waterdeep called the Uruth Ukrypt. Sounds like a huge massgrave/mausoleum for orcs.
Edit: It seems the orc hordes forming from the Sword Mountains are spiritually tied to the Brotherhood of the Scarlet Scourge, a monastic order guarding the crypt and the bodies of orc chieftains.
The tallest mountain peaks (Ieldroun and Thorog) in the Nether Mountains are called after great orc chieftains. Perhaps laying orc corpses to rest on the highest mountian peak in the area is somekind of 'ultimate honor' for the dead. Climbing a mountain top to speak with the ghosts of one's ancestal warrior heroes sounds like just the thing a would-be orc chieftain needs to undertake to claim their status. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 11 Feb 2013 17:06:51 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2013 : 16:27:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Ayrik, you just gave me a GREAT idea for a new nasty monster! Shadowrats?
You'll see something like that in Richard's Prophet of the Dead. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2013 : 16:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Shade corpses might fade or sink into the shadows, at best leaving behind "empty" withered colourless husks. Perhaps they just burst into flame in sunlight or mysteriously vanish when left undisturbed overnight. Not canon, but it seems comparable to the idea of liches (and vampires) crumbling into loose piles of dust and bones when killed.
I tend to agree. This is probably most applicable to Telamont, who is now made purely of shadowstuff. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2013 : 16:35:19
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd imagine a great many of the phaerimm corpses would simply be emaciated -- a consequence of them being starved of magic to feed on.
I'm inclined to disagree. The Realms is awash with magic. Besides, while they are creatures of magic, they also feed on anything, even solid rocks. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2013 : 04:07:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd imagine a great many of the phaerimm corpses would simply be emaciated -- a consequence of them being starved of magic to feed on.
I'm inclined to disagree. The Realms is awash with magic. Besides, while they are creatures of magic, they also feed on anything, even solid rocks.
Eh. We've read of magic-starved phaerimm in both novels and sourcebooks, so I think it's still an applicable state of decomposition for them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2013 : 04:32:20
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Scott Bennie wrote up a pretty cool dragon mortuary ("The Dragon Mortuary of Mot-nefer-mose" or the Jaws of the Dead), set it in Mulhorand and shared it on the old Realms-L mailing list
Worth a read. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 16 Feb 2013 04:32:43 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2013 : 13:08:02
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'd imagine a great many of the phaerimm corpses would simply be emaciated -- a consequence of them being starved of magic to feed on.
I'm inclined to disagree. The Realms is awash with magic. Besides, while they are creatures of magic, they also feed on anything, even solid rocks.
Eh. We've read of magic-starved phaerimm in both novels and sourcebooks, so I think it's still an applicable state of decomposition for them.
I haven't. Source, please?
Was it self-inflicted starvation? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2013 : 05:07:20
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Well, the Netheril boxed set for one. That's a definite.
There's a DRAGON Magazine article I'm thinking of too, at the moment, but I can't remember the issue number. Need to check the DragonDex. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2013 : 05:45:02
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Lifted from Netheril: Empire of Magic, p. 118:
quote:
Phaerimm are creatures who need magic in their environment to survive. Their stomachs and intestinal tracts use a strange symbiosis of magic and digestive juices to assimilate the nutrients in their diet. Without magic, phaerimm starve to death.
It wasn't mentioned that they actually starved. Even the ones who used to be imprisoned in the Sharnwall were still able to cast spells. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2013 : 07:38:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Lifted from Netheril: Empire of Magic, p. 118:
quote:
Phaerimm are creatures who need magic in their environment to survive. Their stomachs and intestinal tracts use a strange symbiosis of magic and digestive juices to assimilate the nutrients in their diet. Without magic, phaerimm starve to death.
It wasn't mentioned that they actually starved. Even the ones who used to be imprisoned in the Sharnwall were still able to cast spells.
That wasn't the quote I was thinking of, though it does underline my earlier rambling.
We're told that without magic, phaerimm can starve. Which also probably means that there had likely been prior evidence of magic-starved phaerimm discovered at encountered at some point in their long history of plaguing the Realms -- enough for adventuring folk [and/or magic-users] to confirm such. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2013 : 13:28:31
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Phaerimm are like zombies.
They really REALLY want to eat.. but apparently don't have to (because I haven't heard of a zombie starving to death).
In the case of Phaerimm (and zombies), I picture it working very similar to how it works for vampires - if they starve enough, they will get weaker and weaker until they finally enter a coma-like state, until a food source gets close enough for them to reactivate (and use the last tiny dredges of their power). In the case of zombies, they may actually start to deteriorate (like a normal corpse).
At least, thats my thoughts on the whole thing - YMMV.
Strange, somewhat off-topic point: When I was a kid in grade-school, a teacher went around the room (the first day) and ask each of us what we wanted to be (it was a 'get to know you' thing). When he got to me, I said, "a gravedigger in a Soap Opera town". Of course, thats one answer the teacher never heard before, and asked for an explanation. I replied, "because they never have to work, because they never find a body when someone dies". (I knew that, because my mom and sisters were avid Soap-Opera junkies). I suppose, looking back, that if there was such a thing as a super-hero (or super-villain) graveyard, I'd want to work there as well.
The Gravedigger in a Soap Opera town, to me, was just like the Maytag repairman (for anyone who remembers that old ad-campaign) - lonely, but you get paid to sit around and do nothing all the time. There are no bodies ever buried! (and for those of you who care, I am currently residing with my sister, and she is still hooked on them, and they are currently running a vampire storyline on General Hospital, with a slayer and everything... talk about trying to cash-in on current trends).
So if you want to know if 'something is wrong' in a small town your party is staying in, always check the graveyard - thats where you'll dig-up the dirt. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2013 13:29:13 |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2013 : 19:23:34
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That's a really interesting question, actually. Where do all the bad monsters go? In the few campaigns I've run, I'd say they litter the ground where the heroes passed through... :D
Seriously though, Ed needs to respond to his. Also gives me ideas for an adventure in which the player characters investigate a goblinoid burial site or something.
I'd assume that orcs burn their dead. |
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Monster graveyards?
