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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:29:08
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Well, I feel I have the unfortunate need to bring this up as of late. It's been on my mind after I learned some heart-breaking news recently; one of my old friends I had known since I was 6 died recently. 
Now, concerning Realmslore, I at least know the following:
1) High-ranking Drow priestesses/Matron Mothers are cremated at death.
2) Dwarves (at least Shield/Gold Dwarves) in the Realms normally inter their dead, and Dumathoin is the patron of dwarven dead. Some spirits can arise as Dwarven Ancestors (MM5)
3) Yuan-ti encase their dead in an egg-like structure in a ritual that seems like them returning to the method they entered the world.
4) Humans vary by culture, whether their dead are cremated, buried/entombed, mummified, etc.
What about Halflings, Gnomes, surface Elves and (Half-)Orcs, among other beings? 
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Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:34:09
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| Followers of the Dark Maiden (Eilastraee)are buried, their foes burned. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Followers of the Dark Maiden (Eilastraee)are buried, their foes burned.
Odd, I just remembered reading Eillistraee's entry in Faiths & Pantheons which mentioned worshipers (or at least clerics) who reach the end of their lifespan engaging in The Last Dance at the end of their lives, which results in them swiftly de-aging and then bonding with the Dark Maiden as they ascend into the afterlife. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 04:51:08
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Oh the Last Dance, that applies only to Priestesses that manage to live to old age enough.
The followers (clerics included) that do not reach retirement age and hear the call for the last dance are buried. Some plant a seed with them to grow a flower. The last not canon, but what appears to make sense to me. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 20:49:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Well, I feel I have the unfortunate need to bring this up as of late. It's been on my mind after I learned some heart-breaking news recently; one of my old friends I had known since I was 6 died recently.
Now, concerning Realmslore, I at least know the following:
1) High-ranking Drow priestesses/Matron Mothers are cremated at death.
2) Dwarves (at least Shield/Gold Dwarves) in the Realms normally inter their dead, and Dumathoin is the patron of dwarven dead. Some spirits can arise as Dwarven Ancestors (MM5)
3) Yuan-ti encase their dead in an egg-like structure in a ritual that seems like them returning to the method they entered the world.
4) Humans vary by culture, whether their dead are cremated, buried/entombed, mummified, etc.
What about Halflings, Gnomes, surface Elves and (Half-)Orcs, among other beings?
interesting question. I'd imagine halflings in other communities adapt to the existing community standards. They may add a little more "homey" ceremony to it however, probably burning/burying/mummifying the person with objects that they held dear and having some kind of feast to see the person off.
Gnomes from "tinkering" communities I see going with cremation as they're more "practical" minded. Heck, they may have some special contraption that is heated/fueled by the dead. Gnomes from a "tricksterish" community might create permanent/programmed illusions of their dead rather than gravestones, or maybe create an illusory song that plays whenever someone kneels at the grave.
Orcs may make meat pies...... just saying..... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2013 : 23:23:22
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Most Sylvan elves go (or are laid) to rest near their favorite tree and just rot in the open, nourishing the roots and wildlife with their corpses. Most get "embraced" by the trees trunk over time, sometimes leaving a dryadlike shaped rootbranch.
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 08:46:47
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Orcs just eat their dead. It's nutritious, as one orc (forgot his name) commented in Richard's The Haunted Lands trilogy, and even wondered why humans don't do the same. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 11:15:02
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| Ummm, because its gross. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 12:19:23
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Gross is all in the mind. Hehe. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2013 : 18:04:11
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| Once its in the stewpot and possibly mixed in with some goblin and human meat.... along with maybe a little spiced warg and horse.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2013 : 03:10:25
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Re.: Dwarves
Dwarves Deep references a funeral procession, led by priests who sing with a low dirge that becomes a roar, and then a high keen.
Lead priests carry weaps and shields, keeping time, matching the beat of drums wielded by lesser priests. All present wear old, used gear.
On arrival at the burial site, the priests throw down their shields, hold their weapons high, and begin calling out the name of Clangeddin, closing their eyes, and concentrating on their own personal images of him. Wherever the largest group of priests converge and collide, the priests make a weapons sacrifice with the arms that they bear. They ask blessings for their honored fallen, and kneel to await a divine answer.
Supposedly, some form of answer is given "often".
The burial follows, and then there is a solemn departure march.
In Gauntlgrym, when Bruenor faked his death in order to abdicate the throne of Mithral Hall, it was first announced that he lay gravely ill in bed. As towncriers ushered the news throughout the North, vigils were kept far and wide for the notable king.
Mithral Hall's vigil was said to be solemn, but not sad. People focused on the good times.
A huge mausoleum was built for Bruenor's body, right beside the cairns for Catti-brie and Regis.
Three days and nights of tribute were held, with speeches from the clan elders and dignitaries of other nations. All ended with a toast to his surviving cousin, the new king, Banak.
The festivities concluded with Bruenor's inner circle holding a more informal, private meeting aroung the hearth in Bruenor's personal chambers.
It is unclear when work began on the bust for the new king in the Hall of Kings.
RAS's dwarves seem to prefer above-ground cairn graves. IOW, they just build the grave up around their dead, on the floor of a tunnel within a dwarfhall, rather than laying their dead down in the earth and covering them back up.
The rubble from the cave-in in The Legacy was considered a fitting makeshift cairn for Wulfgar.
Catti-brie's and Regis's bodies were provided with elaborate cairns inside Mithral Hall (The Ghost King).
When Bruenor "died" the first time in Gauntlgrym, he was provided with an elaborate crypt in the Hall, next to his daughter and friend.
Bruenor and Pwent were given rudimentary cairns inside Gauntlgrym's throneroom (Gauntlgrym).
Runestones can serve as family grave markers (Dwarves Deep).
In Sea of Swords, when the Gutbuster Brigade bore news of Gandalug's death to Icewind Dale, they delivered the bad news with a low drone. Pwent referred to the outgoing king with sadness and downturned eyes, and his companions all took a knee and hummed in grief.
But when he then praised the incoming king and shouted with glee, they jumped up and began pumping their fists in the air, dancing circles around each other, and headbutting each other in celebration. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2016 : 13:50:21
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If a character dies in Eveningstar, would the local temple do the funerary rites? And if yes, would those rites "belong" to that clergy's god? What if the character is of a race that practices differently? (Not that the character could complain...).
I ask because I am writing a scene for an adventure. It's funny that you have this huge Setting and jeg there's always something unanswered :) I know I can make it up myself but maybe there's alle lore on this.
Also, what if the deceased clearly belonged to a different deity, would it matter? Would a priest of Lathander bury/burn/whatever a Cleric of Bane? |
Edited by - Caladan Brood on 24 Apr 2016 13:52:58 |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2016 : 17:26:59
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| I searched for something about burials in Ed Greenwood's Elminster's Forgotten Realms and found two paragraphs that were helpful. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2016 : 14:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
If a character dies in Eveningstar, would the local temple do the funerary rites? And if yes, would those rites "belong" to that clergy's god? What if the character is of a race that practices differently? (Not that the character could complain...).
I ask because I am writing a scene for an adventure. It's funny that you have this huge Setting and jeg there's always something unanswered :) I know I can make it up myself but maybe there's alle lore on this.
Also, what if the deceased clearly belonged to a different deity, would it matter? Would a priest of Lathander bury/burn/whatever a Cleric of Bane?
Honestly, I'd think this would vary depending on the area and what's going on at the time. For instance, here in most states of America, if a person dies and we don't know anything of their beliefs and can't get ahold of next of kin, I believe that they revert to cremation. However, a mere century or so ago, I'd bet that the option was instead to just put people in the ground. Why? A century ago land was more plentiful.
If you do know someone's beliefs AND you know what those beliefs would normally mean in the case of a burial (religion check) AND the person had enough available wealth to cover that type of funeral, I'd imagine local clergy would do their best to meet the requirements of an individual's religion. This may even include magically sending for a priest of said religion from a nearby temple if possible, or magically transporting the body home.
Quite possibly, a better question is "what happens to a person's wealth". For instance, I can see adventurers automatically assuming they get to divvy up the magic items held by a dead PC.... then the local magistrate steps in an points out that these items belong to the local government (because the local temple contacted them).... or that the items belong to the homeland of the dead PC.... or that they belong to the temple.... A lot of governments/temples may actually gain many of their magic items that they gift to adventurers for completing tasks through this method. This may be why many adventuring parties make charters that they keep on file that designates to whom they leave any wealth/items that they possess upon death. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2016 : 15:16:33
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For Jergalite priests and later for Kelemvor also there is a tradition that say - if you find a dead person temple gets all his belongings as payment for funeral. If you are broke you can buy yourself a proper funeral by renting your body as a workforce (skeleton) for a time period (this was stopped with Kelemvorites).
I haven't found an answer to what happens if you die in place without such priest. Are other priests (like Velsharoon's or Shar's) going to uphold this tradition or will they claim body for their own purposes? Who governs proper burials in such places for locals? Is anybody keeping list of deceased for Jergalite/Kelemvorite that comes around?
In my realms local priests do uphold regional tradition and do burials for a fee even for non-worshipers. More evil the region less thought is given to outsiders (especialy those found already dead and abandoned).
A large part of Kelevorite priests are on the road traveling around given area easing the suffering of the dying and providing burial services. Remaining Jergalites are mainly keeping already existing graveyards and tombs.
As there exist a real risk of being used as undead servant after dead in realms most regions prefer cremation. In regions where is tradition to be put under ground you have to pay to cleric for sealing of the grave. Rich people can afford to pay for their own tomb with all the protection they can pay and usualy have their body prepared for the rest someway (mumification, treating with oils, ...).
(One of my players have a Jergalite cleric so I have already given it a lot of thoughts) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2016 : 16:41:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
For Jergalite priests and later for Kelemvor also there is a tradition that say - if you find a dead person temple gets all his belongings as payment for funeral. If you are broke you can buy yourself a proper funeral by renting your body as a workforce (skeleton) for a time period (this was stopped with Kelemvorites).
I haven't found an answer to what happens if you die in place without such priest. Are other priests (like Velsharoon's or Shar's) going to uphold this tradition or will they claim body for their own purposes? Who governs proper burials in such places for locals? Is anybody keeping list of deceased for Jergalite/Kelemvorite that comes around?
In my realms local priests do uphold regional tradition and do burials for a fee even for non-worshipers. More evil the region less thought is given to outsiders (especialy those found already dead and abandoned).
A large part of Kelevorite priests are on the road traveling around given area easing the suffering of the dying and providing burial services. Remaining Jergalites are mainly keeping already existing graveyards and tombs.
As there exist a real risk of being used as undead servant after dead in realms most regions prefer cremation. In regions where is tradition to be put under ground you have to pay to cleric for sealing of the grave. Rich people can afford to pay for their own tomb with all the protection they can pay and usualy have their body prepared for the rest someway (mumification, treating with oils, ...).
(One of my players have a Jergalite cleric so I have already given it a lot of thoughts)
Along these lines, another good question is how would magic change some of these choices. For instance, in a place where they can hire a 1st level wizard for cheap to repeatedly cast a firebolt (or similar fire cantrip, such as produce flame, bonfire, etc....) on a dead body to cremate it. Hell, some masters may provide their apprentices for this service just as a means to train them to cast the spell repeatedly. Similarly, we wouldn't normally consider bathing a body in acid as a normal means of "burial", but repeated use of the acid splash cantrip would be another viable method.
Body preservation services might also be cheaper due to magic, as might illusion cantrips meant to make a dead body look more alive for viewing (or remove any smells related to decay). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2016 : 01:27:17
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I can see three aspects of this:
1) person dying wants to make sure he will rest safely and will not be eaten by animals, raised as undead or vandalized any other way.
2) relatives want above and to say goodbye to deceased.
3) community want to eliminate chance of undead threat or deseases from decaying corpse
Some regions can have different approach (more natural or evil) but this seems to me as general view.
So "proper" burial should be ceremonial, securing the body permanently and away from main population in the area. All those things could be done by magic and some actualy are commonly - like securing the body.
Jergalites/Kelemvorites have a ritual that seals the body so it cannot be used for necromancy. You could also destroy, protect or transform the body to do the trick. One obscure burying ritual I used was satyrs petrification of their old leaders on the clearing in forest in circle (like stonehenge) called Crown of the Kings (which my characters looked for thinking of ancient jewel). Drow on the other hand use large spiders to mumify (suck dry) their dead and after some period hanging before ones house the body is discarded (Imporant ones are destroyed outright due to fear of resurrection). |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2019 : 15:53:42
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In the game I have described ritual burial of stone giants - they take the body in silence to nearby rock formation large enough and with chanting and singing they merge (sink) it to the stone. They do not mark the grave in any way thinking that deceased has become one with the stone again.
I have read somewhere that their body calcify after death so in some places they put them as statues in important places. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2019 : 16:54:18
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Murder hobos rarely grieve the death of other murder hobos. This may be because many murder hobos believe in reincarnation. It's not uncommon to find a similar murder hobo with similar abilities and a similar name shortly after the death of a murder hobo.
(I miss you Sapphire VI, troll-killing wizard from 1978. Nice to meet you Sapphire VII, who has also learned that fireball isn't a surefire troll killer!) |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2019 : 17:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Murder hobos rarely grieve the death of other murder hobos. This may be because many murder hobos believe in reincarnation. It's not uncommon to find a similar murder hobo with similar abilities and a similar name shortly after the death of a murder hobo.
(I miss you Sapphire VI, troll-killing wizard from 1978. Nice to meet you Sapphire VII, who has also learned that fireball isn't a surefire troll killer!)
Said murder hobos are also usually an improvement in feat choices, etc... as well. Its weird how "life" works that way.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2019 : 18:11:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Murder hobos rarely grieve the death of other murder hobos. This may be because many murder hobos believe in reincarnation. It's not uncommon to find a similar murder hobo with similar abilities and a similar name shortly after the death of a murder hobo.
(I miss you Sapphire VI, troll-killing wizard from 1978. Nice to meet you Sapphire VII, who has also learned that fireball isn't a surefire troll killer!)
Said murder hobos are also usually an improvement in feat choices, etc... as well. Its weird how "life" works that way.
It's how murder hobos evolve. Sadly, though, this evolution is not without flaw; sometimes, later generations of murder hobos are more destructive and approach an almost mindless state. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 01:16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Murder hobos rarely grieve the death of other murder hobos. This may be because many murder hobos believe in reincarnation. It's not uncommon to find a similar murder hobo with similar abilities and a similar name shortly after the death of a murder hobo.
(I miss you Sapphire VI, troll-killing wizard from 1978. Nice to meet you Sapphire VII, who has also learned that fireball isn't a surefire troll killer!)
Said murder hobos are also usually an improvement in feat choices, etc... as well. Its weird how "life" works that way.
It's how murder hobos evolve. Sadly, though, this evolution is not without flaw; sometimes, later generations of murder hobos are more destructive and approach an almost mindless state.
It seems to me like they are only victims of environment they live in. Given chance they can evolve to a higher being but they can hardly see anything but numbers... |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 04:35:11
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Dragonborn of Tymanther mourn their dead ones dressing in white garments and usually peacebond their weapons with white ribbons. They also pour white ash on their faces. This mourning can last for many days until a dragonborn seems fit to return to their usual garments. If the dead was a member of a high-ranking station (such as the Vanquisher or a commander or a clan leader), their offices are draped in white cloths until their replacements are elected.
Vayemniri funerals are somber ceremonies. Representatives of each clan are invited to say their goodbyes to the dead ones, to give the gratitude of their clans; even if a Vayemniri dies, their impact on the clans last forever. The dead are also dressed in white robes, missing limbs (if any) hidden. Representatives of the mourning clan (usually younglings) carry a caster of oil, pouring a bit of it in the other mourners’ hands, so that they can trace the eyes and mouth of the dead with the oil when saying their compliments. Finally, the dirge of the dead, a song of gratitude for the departed, is sing. In the days of Tymanchebar, the ritual was the same, but using blood instead of oil (so, perhaps the usage of blood is still a thing in Laerakond).
The dead are later mummified and interred in their clan’s private crypts in the catacombs. It seems that each bloodline within a clan has its own section in the private crypts (the catacombs are incredible big, built in the subterranean section of the city and planed to house a lot of Vayemniri’s remains for the foreseeable future… there are entire wings of the catacombs that are still unused and basically abandoned in Djerad Thymar). The crypts also have sections dedicated to house murals known as the “Rolls of the Lost”. Those murals have depictions of certain clan heroes as well as extensive lists of names of dead dragonborn, to pay homage to ancestors who died in Abeir, or the names of those dragonborn who died in Faerûn whose remains weren’t recovered.
During the Ash Day (no exact date given, but seems to be celebrated around Nightal), the Vayemniri conmemorate their dead ones with a public celebration on the Market Floor, with ritual dancings and revelry (dragonborn musicians seem to prefer mandolins, horns and drums as instruments), though an individual can go to pay respects to the catacombs any time they want. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 10:04:50
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Caladan: About the "different religion", good question, but the answer is the question is based on our society, where there is monotheism. FR as published is Henotheist, one god per religion, but ALL gods is true. FR as Greenwood seem to envision it, is polytheist.
In real polytheist societies, this isn't an issue. Look at how Japanese view religion, all go to Shinto shrines, all is Buddhists, all do a bit of everything. The country got something like 100s of gods, and 1000s of kami, all belong to 2.5 religions, and is one of the least religious contries in the world (with Norway and Sweden!).
A trick from study of history: if you lack data, substitute something which works. Forgotten Realms seem to work same way as Romans or Japanese did or do. As long as the gods belong to same pantheon, say, ex-Netheril gods and common Faerunian deities, all followers probably would just cooperate and assist, Kelemvorites, Druids, even Barbarian burial rites could be untilized. If I remember correctly, in England, pagan Vikings sometime untilized the Kairns and old sites as burial grounds, sometime got burial at Christian churches(with goods, as sword), sometimes ended up in mass graves after defeats, etc.
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Edited by - Starshade on 28 Sep 2019 10:06:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 16:01:22
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One idea I had, that I've never done anything with...
You have a people like the Uthgardt: some sort of culture that may or may not be semi-nomadic, but that hasn't gone for building cities and such. A society that stays in touch with nature.
When someone dies, they're buried in a special grove, and a tree planted on top of them. Elders of this group of people can go amongst the trees, and through some means have a limited communication with those buried there. The people turn to the Ancestor Trees for guidance and wisdom, and the advice of the Trees is often used in important decisions facing the community.
It's really just a variation on the standard ancestor worship idea, but I think there's potential there to do something nifty with it. I just have no idea what! |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 16:52:12
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I think that main question is how much respect different churches have for each other to honor their customs. It seems to me is a breaking point as good churches should honor wishes of even evil person but evil church have no reason to do that unless it is beneficial for them.
So for example in evil city like Mulmaster there is no will for special care about say follower of Lathander and he will be buried as convenient for local authorities i.e. sent to temple of Kelemvor to deal with it or sold to banites for use. However there will probably be some care about followers of Tymora as she has a temple in the city and tymorans will also honor banites traditions.
If druid find a body in forest he will probably take his equipment and leave it for animals. If he is good aligned he might make a simple grave. However if he finds a amulet of patron diety who have a friendly or neutral cleric nearby he might transport the body to him to win his favor.
If a Jergalite will find a body he will try to communicate with the soul and provide a funeral according to deceased's choice and will claim his possesions as a payment. This is however due to church doctrine not altruism.
I am personaly still interested in any cannon form of funeral service for inspiration into my game as priest of Jergal is in the party. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 17:08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I think that main question is how much respect different churches have for each other to honor their customs. It seems to me is a breaking point as good churches should honor wishes of even evil person but evil church have no reason to do that unless it is beneficial for them.
It would be beneficial for an evil church to honor the customs of a good church -- because if and evil church goes around willfully wronging the deceased a good church, then the good church has no reason to honor the deceased of an evil one. The good church might not desecrate the bodies of evil worshippers, but they could just put them in a pauper's grave.
That said, why would fallen of one faith be going to rival temples for funerary services?
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
So for example in evil city like Mulmaster there is no will for special care about say follower of Lathander and he will be buried as convenient for local authorities i.e. sent to temple of Kelemvor to deal with it or sold to banites for use. However there will probably be some care about followers of Tymora as she has a temple in the city and tymorans will also honor banites traditions.
I think it would only be a matter for local authorities if no one else was involved. Even if there isn't a local temple of Lathander, I would expect some of his faithful -- or the faithful of an allied faith -- to see to the funerary care of his fallen. Only when no church at all gets involved would city officials handle it. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Sep 2019 17:12:25 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2019 : 19:02:54
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For me it is based on alignment - good are selfless and caring so they should help even if they know there will be no reward. On the other hand evil is selfish caring only for it's own ends so they should "help" only if there is a reward. In churches of any alignment they should know that body without a soul is just a form and it have no effect on departed soul unless reanimated as higher undead. The funeral service is a way to ease the passing for relatives - good churches want that, evil may teach worshipers that it has no more meaning unless as a tool. Lawful should have a strict rules about proper funeral and chaotic will care less about form and more about spirit of it.
The crossing line is the animation - it take the soul of worshiper from the deity so it should be considered by all priests. Evil ones may use that as a means to the end and ideally use not-their-own to rob different god or ask for permission of their god if loyalty is needed for the job. Other gods would probably not like that and may try to save their worshiper. I do not see a way for all churches to have a mutual non-violation pact that will be honored - there is an animosity between them from their most basic principles. Allying with opposing church on such level would be almost surely a heresy that deity will not forgive and will make active steps to stop you.
On the other hand good church will not only reject the idea of undead for their own but also will actively "save" evil undead regardless of their intent or wishes. So this is just another level of ideological war that has been going on for centuries and that is probably the way it should be. There is no one on higher ground - only different moral standing point.
I have seen many times that people understand evil gods as ones their worshipers fears them or they are crazy. As I see it they are ideals just like good ones - worshipers are trying to be like them so cyricist is evil and will use any means to get what he wants and there is no guilt about it - that is a correct way from his perspective. Loviatarian enjoys spreading pain and talonite thinks only worthy should survive.
Also some think such worshiper is damned after his death but it is clear to me they all go to their "heaven" if they were true - they will continue to live their way as a petitioner until they are one with their deity.
To get back on topic - funeral should reflect the way of the deity so not everyone wants to be buried in the tomb with his ancestors even if they had the money. I am not sure if I will find a time for it but it might be an interesting exercise to create an idea for all gods as to how their worshiper's body should be cared for. Especially for more alien gods of non-humans. I will post it here if I would get to it. |
Edited by - Wrigley on 28 Sep 2019 19:05:41 |
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Grief, remembrance and funerals in the Realms?
