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Aryalómë
Senior Scribe
USA
666 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Dec 2012 : 18:38:43
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| Also, if I'm not mistaken, hasn't there already been a couple of books about Kara-Tur? Something called Oriental Adventures or somesuch? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2012 : 19:28:37
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There were two rulebooks by that name, but the second one (3e) was for Lot5R (Rokugan), not Kara-Tur (which is still looked upon as very strange decision by many).
Kara-Tur had the first sourcebook by that name, a 1e boxed set, a large sourcebook that updated stuff to 2e (Ronin Challenge), about a dozen adventures (almost all actually set outside of K-T proper on the neo-Japanese island chains), and the Kara-Tur trail map.
The Horde was another box that is sometimes lumped-in with the K-T stuff, but it was actually a sub-setting linking the two main settings (Kara-Tur and Faerûn). All three settings, along with Maztica are considered Forgotten Realms. Although Zakahara is on Toril, it was never marketed with the FR logo. Realmspace got a similar treatment - it was marketed under the SJ logo. The final 6th (7th if you count the solar system) Torillian setting is Malatra, which had a very brief lifespan and was part of the 'Living' (Jungle) RPGA campaigns. That region was located just to the south of Kara-Tur, and like The Horde, is sometimes considered a part of K-T.
The Horde setting over-lapped K-T quite a bit, and had three adventure modules of its own, which actually took place in (in part) in regions of Kara-Tur and Shou-Lung (so they could be considered K-T modules as well).
There were some Kits and PrC's that were linked to OA as well but were marketed under the D&D core brand. The 3e ones were usually linked to Rokugan instead.
Several artifacts from K-T also appear in the (2e) Book of Artifacts, and the region is also mentioned several times in the Realmspace Spelljammer accessory. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2012 19:30:47 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2012 : 01:57:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There were two rulebooks by that name, but the second one (3e) was for Lot5R (Rokugan), not Kara-Tur (which is still looked upon as very strange decision by many).
I wouldn't say that the 3e Oriental Adventures tome was for Rokugan, specifically. There were some generic D&D rules-elements presented that certainly weren't world-specific, and could easily be adapted for Realms use.
And, as I recall from a discussion way back on the Wizards boards when OA was first released... that was the way designer James Wyatt intended it to be. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2012 : 03:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, as I recall from a discussion way back on the Wizards boards when OA was first released... that was the way designer James Wyatt intended it to be.
I wish the old Wizards boards were still available. There's a lot that was said in the old OA forums that showed what to use in the realms and what to ignore. The fact that OA never got even a web enhancement for the realms made it a tough nut to take, Sage. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2012 : 06:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
And, as I recall from a discussion way back on the Wizards boards when OA was first released... that was the way designer James Wyatt intended it to be.
I wish the old Wizards boards were still available. There's a lot that was said in the old OA forums that showed what to use in the realms and what to ignore. The fact that OA never got even a web enhancement for the realms made it a tough nut to take, Sage.
Wasn't there one planned, though? I seem to recall hearing something about that. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2012 : 16:26:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There were two rulebooks by that name, but the second one (3e) was for Lot5R (Rokugan), not Kara-Tur (which is still looked upon as very strange decision by many).
I wouldn't say that the 3e Oriental Adventures tome was for Rokugan, specifically. There were some generic D&D rules-elements presented that certainly weren't world-specific, and could easily be adapted for Realms use.
And, as I recall from a discussion way back on the Wizards boards when OA was first released... that was the way designer James Wyatt intended it to be.
That was barely half the book, however. To this day I look through my 3E OA book and sneer in disgust at how half of it is almost useless. I have to adapt Rokugan stuff into my Kara-Tur games, which is not fun. Because the Rokugan material in there is heavily steeped in Rokugan lore. WotC also fails to do follow-up books. I really wish they released a new, expanded OA book after 3.5 was released to make up for their first mistake. |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2012 : 16:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Ed convinced me. Kara-Tur, Maztica and the other real world culture locales need some serious tweaking. Perhaps even exision from the Realms.
Trying to delve further into the realm of fantasy for those realms beyond fearun is daunting, as its -a lot- more work but also because finding the right tone to fit into the Forgotten Realms flavor might be hard.
I am quite content if they give me more detail from Fearun proper, there are many regional sourcebooks that can have more useful content for years to come if they define the many characteristics of them thoroughly. I think lower scaled, localised sourcebooks would be better products for it aswell.
I must confess that I do like the way Zahkara was done, still an excellent product dispite the obvious arabian influences.
I believe the success of a campaign setting involves a region to which you can have your own style of gameplay.
I would not enjoy the Realms half as much had there not been elements of every real-world culture in it. There are places in Faerun if you wish to run an Arabian setting, Aztec/Mayana/Native American setting, Viking setting, Celtic setting, Oriental setting, Egytpian and Sumerian/Babylonian setting, ancient Russian setting, Greek setting, medieval Europe settings, an underwater setting, Underdark setting, a space setting (via Spelljammer's Realmspace), heck, even a potential monstrous and steampunk setting (if they ever fully detail Veldorn and Lantan, that is). I'd say it's missing a Gothic setting so far. In addition to this it also has unique regions for settings not really tied to any actual real-world culture like the Silver Marches, Bloodstone Lands, Evermeet, etc.
Now I do repeat: elements. Not full blown carbon copies. I do agree that the lands beyond Faerun need a serious overhaul. Keep the best elements and make the rest more unique and Realmsian.
My terrible feeling (and probably the truth none of us want to admit) is that WotC will never get around to doing any such Beyond Faerun books. They probably feel that it's too big of a project to handle. In-house, that is. So what I don't understand is why don't they license it to someone else, but allow them the freedom to tie in as many Faerunian elements into the settings in order to tie the products together.
For example, have someone else produce Kara-Tur supplements. Slap an FR Logo on it, have the lore tie in to Faerun in a few places but allow the rest to be handled by the development department of whatever company they license it to. Pretty much do for these other settings what they did with Dragon and Dungeon Magazine with Paizo Publishing. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2012 : 23:19:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There were two rulebooks by that name, but the second one (3e) was for Lot5R (Rokugan), not Kara-Tur (which is still looked upon as very strange decision by many).
I wouldn't say that the 3e Oriental Adventures tome was for Rokugan, specifically. There were some generic D&D rules-elements presented that certainly weren't world-specific, and could easily be adapted for Realms use.
And, as I recall from a discussion way back on the Wizards boards when OA was first released... that was the way designer James Wyatt intended it to be.
That was barely half the book, however. To this day I look through my 3E OA book and sneer in disgust at how half of it is almost useless. I have to adapt Rokugan stuff into my Kara-Tur games, which is not fun. Because the Rokugan material in there is heavily steeped in Rokugan lore. WotC also fails to do follow-up books. I really wish they released a new, expanded OA book after 3.5 was released to make up for their first mistake.
Really? A lot of the 'Rokugan' material is fairly generic in my eyes, and could easily be adapted for use in Kara-Tur based campaigns. And I tended to find a lot of convenient comparison between established Kara-Turan-specific setting tidbits, and that presented through the 'Rokugan' material. But maybe that was just me.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2012 : 01:48:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
The only parts of the original OA book I really ever used were the classes, equipment, and honor rules. And a few bits in the government andculture sections and the building interiors and designs found in the back. That's about it. I ignored most of the racial info, as well as all the setting lore.
I haven't ever thought about adapting the honour rules. I've always just used a derivative of the Kuritan honour system in BATTLETECH for my games.
Maybe I need to look into them again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 03:45:28
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I dunno, Sage, I tried. Personally, all the "Shadowlands" stuff was annoying. Like, how was I to adapt that for Kara-Tur? Or the Samurai clan stuff? Half the monsters were Rokugan setting monsters, granted, some were easily adaptable. The oni are perfect for any Asian setting, but their (Native) subtype and Shadowlands origins made it difficult to adapt. I wasn't sure if they should even have the Spirit subtype or not, and if not, why don't they have the Spirit subtype?
I guess if everything was changed from "Shadowlands" to "Underworld" since that seems to be the equivalent in Kara-Tur lore. The prestige classes were tough, too, since many were reliant, both fluff and mechanics, on a Rokugan specific lore. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 10:10:57
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They really wanted everything in 3e to be all about 'shadow-stuff', so in a perverse way it made some sense for them to focus on Rokugan.
I found - as I worked on the Kara-tur project - that the Shadowlands stuff merged fairly well with the 3e 'shadowy' flavor (in fact, I was thinking the Shadweave was first known in the east and used by corrupted Wujen).
If you fast-forward to 4e with it's shadowfel, its an even better fit. I just wish they had adapted the material to Kara-Tur, rather then presenting it as Rokugan (I agree it wasn't generic enough - it was VERY setting-specific). In the end I managed to merge quite a few ideas into K-T, simply because we had a couple of decades there with no K-T info. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 15:02:36
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| No, leave them off the edge of the map... |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 17:36:13
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quote:
Originally posted by rjfras
I would like to see some material for places like the Border Kingdoms, the Shaar, Lapaliiya, Tashalar, Chult and Tharsult before we get stuff on other continents, though isnt Zakhara on the same continent, just a long way to the south?
+1.
While I wouldn't mind seeing other continents detailed out, I'd buy them for sure, but there's plenty in the mainland that could (deserve) more fleshing out than distant lands. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 17:38:10
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Like Sossal or Shaareach?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2012 : 17:39:13
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| Yep; just like those too. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Beyond Faerun
