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Saxmilian
Learned Scribe
USA
157 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 18:08:38
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When creating a magical item, what is the price of having the spell as a Free-actio, or even better, ain Immediate action. I figure Quicken Spell would cover the Free-action cost but, what? Double that for a Free action item?
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 18:45:20
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Closest thing I've found is for a continuous effect, which is caster level x spell level x 2000 gp (DMG p 285), which is then multiplied by 4 if the spell's duration is normally measured in round/level, by 2 if measured in minute/level, by 1.5 if by 10 minutes/level andby 0.5 if the duration is 24 hour or greater.
Free action and continuous are arguably the same, the only exception being in the event where the user is incapacitated before being able to trigger the effect. Still, the cost should be a bit lower (maybe final cost x 0.80 or something).
Now, if the free action spell does not have an unlimited charges supply, this is a different story. I would go in between the price for the 50-charges-based trigger (caster level x spell level x 750 gp), and the continuous effect. Maybe caster level x spell level x 1500 gp. Then I would apply the same multiplier for spells with short duration.
I'm not sure if this is exactly how I would handle it, but for a quick answer, I hope it helps. This could lead to very powerful items, make sure it doesn't go out of hands, as is often the case when handling magic item creation. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 22:35:37
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my take on it would simply be "you want a quickened version of the spell in the item... ok, up the spell level by 4 and appropriately change the caster level". So a wand of quickened magic missiles would have to be a 5th lvl spell with a caster level of 9th lvl.... so 45 times the cost. Do the same thing with a 2nd lvl spell (which would normally be 3rd caster lvl) and that becomes 6th lvl spell caster lvl of 11... so 11 times the cost. Do the same with a 3rd lvl spell (normally 5th caster lvl) and that becomes 7th lvl spell 13th lvl caster... or 6.06 times the cost. For a 4th lvl spell (caster lvl 7 normally), it becomes 8th lvl spell 15th lvl caster, or 4.2857 times normal cost. Finally, a 5th lvl spell (caster lvl 9 normally), it becomes 9th lvl spell 17th caster lvl, or 3.4 times the cost. By doing this, we won't see a flooded market with charged items with low level spells that are quickened that people make dozens of and pop off for free in every round of combat. However, for someone genuinely interested in having a wand/staff with some kind of quickened protection of upper level spells, it becomes a viable, tactical solution if expensive. That of course would be for things like wands, etc...
That of course would be for spells that you don't want to keep in memory. If you're willing to use the memory slot, it'd be much more viable to purchase a metamagic rod of quicken to do 3 spells per day, and if you want to do a lot of quickening... there is nothing preventing you carrying multiple of them, except of course cost. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2012 : 23:46:48
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I don't want to crash your thread, but I must say I lament the magic item creation methods of 3.x/Pathfinder.
The simple fact that someone can say "if you can afford the cost" means that money is the factor here...and not a scarcity/rarity of magical items that are not simply put for sale every time a creator can churn another one out.
However, inside of the rules, I agree completely with Sleyvas. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 03:29:48
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In my Realms, magic crafting occurs as per Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 04:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In my Realms, magic crafting occurs as per Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
-- George Krashos
I've never found a better "system" for magic items...hands down. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 04:20:34
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I go completely old-schoool; no-one makes magic items... you find them. The secrets to creating them has been lost to time... or are closely guarded secrets by uber-NPCs.
No 'Thaymarts' in MY Realms. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 05:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I go completely old-schoool; no-one makes magic items... you find them. The secrets to creating them has been lost to time... or are closely guarded secrets by uber-NPCs.
No 'Thaymarts' in MY Realms.
You can have magical items being created without the Red Wal-Marts... Volo's Guide to All Things Magical (formerly a suppressed work  ), as mentioned above, has a very good magic item creation system. It makes it very flavorful, and not something suited to mass-production.
I don't mind Red Wal-Marts, myself, though I'd limit them to potions and wands, with some spell components. It doesn't take great skill to make a simple wand of magic missiles... (Note that I also favor the 2E magical items, and that I also think that items sold by the Reds may have undocumented "features" that benefit the Reds, and may or may not harm the buyer) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 08:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I don't want to crash your thread, but I must say I lament the magic item creation methods of 3.x/Pathfinder.
The simple fact that someone can say "if you can afford the cost" means that money is the factor here...and not a scarcity/rarity of magical items that are not simply put for sale every time a creator can churn another one out.
However, inside of the rules, I agree completely with Sleyvas.
The problem with that argument Dalor is that people can create their own items, so you can't simply use the "its not for sale" argument either. Therefore, you need to make "money" the limiting cost... though from a roleplay stance you could state that its very hard to get ahold of yuan-ti liver, gems naturally instilled with the essence of the wind, or whatever and that's why its costing so much. If people are at least closely trying to follow the rules for personal wealth, it "should" help control this stuff. However, that all being said, you can use both options if your players can't make their own stuff (i.e. its not for sale and its WAY expensive, so you're not likely to find it unless you care enough to hunt down someone willing to make it for you). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 09:15:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In my Realms, magic crafting occurs as per Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
-- George Krashos
From a roleplay/flavor standpoint, I must say I really like what was done there (I recently revisited those rules as a matter of fact to remind myself how some things were done). From a usability standpoint to design how to build out the rules for every item in the DMG... not so much.
However, I'm also not fond of the "have a feat for craft wand/craft staff/craft rod/scribe scroll/brew potion" all of which are just charged items. I'd much rather in the instance that craft wand/staff/rod be one feat and you simply have to be higher level to craft staves and rods... similarly, I think scribe scroll and craft magic tattoo should work hand in hand. Now, they might put in some "requirement" that a person has to do to unlock these more powerful additions.
Similarly, I think craft ring and crafting magic gems should function together. I also think that all neck and wrist slot items in the wondrous item functionality should be pulled under craft ring, such that craft wondrous becomes less of a "got to have" and craft ring becomes more viable. Head slot items should also be move out to craft ring or craft arms/armor based on type. (i.e. helms/hats versus crowns/headbands). This leaves wondrous with eye, shirt, belt, cloak, glove, and boot slots (and the catch all "unassigned" slot).... though I wouldn't fight leaving hats as a function of craft wondrous, such that head slots are done by multiple groups. I specifically would not move crafting gauntlets to arms/armor, because then arms/armor starts getting a little too strong.
Aesthetically, I also think that potion brewing should fit in with crafting wondrous items and not be a separate feat.
I do however like how craft construct requires both craft wondrous and craft arms/armor, to make this a harder skill to learn. However, I don't like that its a third feat. Similar to the above, if someone has both feats, I think it should open up craft construct. I do like that craft contingent spell is a feat to its own. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe
151 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2012 : 16:35:04
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Tbh Sleyvas, personally I HATE the way magic item crafting was done in 3.x. IF crafting magical items should even require a feat, I personally believe that it sould have cost only one slot: "Craft Magical Item".
How often do you really have your character craft something? Personally I've never had a character do it, and amongst my friends I've only really heard of one doing it on anything resembling a regular basis. You don't have many feats to begin with, especially as a spellcaster, and Crafting feats are probably going to be the feats that you use the least throughout your character's career. Additionally all the crazy math to figure out the creation/purchase value of a magical item. It absolutely KILLS any feeling of magic and wonder to me. I basically feels to me like "well, I've collected a huge pile of gold, so now I'll just pour it into this slot, pull this lever, and then I'll be able to pull out my magical item of choice out of the drawer at the bottom of the machine here..."
I realise that others will disagree with me on this, but I've simply never liked those rules. They feel more like a math assignment than a creative endeavour that can be used as a storyhook or plotline basis :-( |
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Prices on Quick Casting 3.5
