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Odessa333
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 05:14:09
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Hi there! I've been wondering two questions, and hope someone can shed some light on.
1. I am basing a 4th edition campaign in the Forgotten Realms, and I'm wondering about political borders. I have the players handbook and campaign setting book for the area, and while informative, it doesn't give specific details of borders. I've read it's the 'points of light' theory 4th edition is using, but I want to make sure I understand just what I'm getting into here. I don't like to assume. I've seen political maps for 3rd edition, but nothing on 4th. Anyone know of any?
2. Regarding warlock pacts. I'm curious to just what beings warlocks are binding themselves too. I doubt an infernal pact warlock is making a deal with Asmodeus, so what kind of creature do you think makes these bargains? Same deal with the other pacts. I'm especially curious about Fey Pacts; could a 'fey origin' Eladrin create a pact with a human? Do we have any idea who or what kind of creatures are making these pacts?
If anyone can shed some light on these questions, I'd appreciate it!
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 06:47:38
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Well I think can handle 1 with little problem. Borders have never been well defined, in 4th because of the plague become less so. The borders always were how wide influence and control a city or nation controlled. Thus the borders vary because of number of troops, patrols and so on that exist to control the area. That is why there are border regions sometimes miles wide claimed by two regions or sometimes not claimed by either.
As to Warlocks, it would appear that any demon able to grant powers would do so. I am uncertain that Eladrin could confer power to a human.
There again have not expanded much effort on 4th Edition because it has a Warlock class, also the Warlord class and kept the Barbarian as a class. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2012 : 21:36:05
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I'm sure that maps owned by, say, Cormyrian and Sembian nobility won't always agree on precise borders. No doubt local Baron so-and-so can always dig up old maps which show the territories held by somebody in his family tree (nine generations ago) in all their glory, with boldly marked borders showing where some other lordling has encroached. Itinerant landless gentry probably treasure all sorts of heirlooms which vouch for their "rightful" possession of some piece of land.
As in the real world, borders basically end at the limits of your military force, police patrols, and tax collector address lists. Civil surveyors can mark every object in the land with astonishing detail, they can tell you if a cobblestone has been moved three inches away from where it "belongs" ... but they basically stay within city walls and rarely travel to neighbouring farmsteads. The guys on the frontier are usually feudal soldier sorts, not particularly well known for skills at cartography (even then, they tend to only notice the locations of terrain, military objects, hazards, castles, and roads ... they care little for borders which can shift with orders). |
[/Ayrik] |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2012 : 12:26:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Odessa333 (snip) 1. I am basing a 4th edition campaign in the Forgotten Realms, and I'm wondering about political borders. I have the players handbook and campaign setting book for the area, and while informative, it doesn't give specific details of borders. I've read it's the 'points of light' theory 4th edition is using, but I want to make sure I understand just what I'm getting into here. I don't like to assume. I've seen political maps for 3rd edition, but nothing on 4th. Anyone know of any? (snip)
4E's Points-of-Light philosophy seems to have removed the idea of political borders in FR with a few exceptions. The reality is, with the paucity of material for the 4E Realms, FR DMs are left with deciding these issues for themselves.
[quote] (snip) 2. Regarding warlock pacts. I'm curious to just what beings warlocks are binding themselves too. I doubt an infernal pact warlock is making a deal with Asmodeus, so what kind of creature do you think makes these bargains? Same deal with the other pacts. I'm especially curious about Fey Pacts; could a 'fey origin' Eladrin create a pact with a human? Do we have any idea who or what kind of creatures are making these pacts? (snip) [quote]
This has actually never been definitively answered in 4E. You might want to look at Dragon 381 - Performing the Pact and Dungeon 174 - Sealing the Pact for some ideas to discuss with your DM.
[quote]Originally posted by Kentinal (snip) As to Warlocks, it would appear that any demon able to grant powers would do so. I am uncertain that Eladrin could confer power to a human. (snip)
Actually, demons don't grant warlock pacts in 4E; devils do. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2012 : 13:19:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Actually, demons don't grant warlock pacts in 4E; devils do.
They both look about the same to me *G* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2012 : 14:17:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Actually, demons don't grant warlock pacts in 4E; devils do.
They both look about the same to me *G*
Hehe... exactly.
Frankly, it's a strange gap in the rules and one that won't be addressed with 4E's demise. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2012 : 16:17:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Odessa333
2. Regarding warlock pacts. I'm curious to just what beings warlocks are binding themselves too. I doubt an infernal pact warlock is making a deal with Asmodeus, so what kind of creature do you think makes these bargains? Same deal with the other pacts. I'm especially curious about Fey Pacts; could a 'fey origin' Eladrin create a pact with a human? Do we have any idea who or what kind of creatures are making these pacts?
First off, let me say that I don't follow 4th edition, but I would not be surprised to find a warlock who had made his pact with Asmodeus. However, that being said, if that were the case, I'd expect it to be a warlock/priest of Asmodeus (or in 3.5 terms a warlock/cleric/eldritchtheurge). I'd imagine all of the other lords of hell also offer such pacts, as well as the dark eight. I could also see pacts being offered by Gargauth. There's also the baatezu/devil lord Thasmudyan (from the complete book of necromancers and with a sect amongst the Isle of Sahu), who is worshipped as a lord of the undead (with a focus on cannibalism, necrophilia, and ghouls). Finally, if yugoloths survived into 4th edition, I wouldn't be surprised if they also made pacts.
As to the fey, I'd defer to others here, as there is apparently a lot of 4e lore on the feywild out there. However, I'd imagine pretty much any archfey that could might offer such pacts.
The question that springs to mind with all of these warlocks to me isn't who is making the pacts. Its where is this boundless source of energy from which they're drawing? Are they all tapping into a shared resource of some sort? Is it the weave or something different? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2012 : 21:35:43
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In 4e, "eladrin" are pretty much just young/untranscended archfey, so yes, they can certainly make pacts with warlocks. The question is only whether the eladrin in question has sufficient power to give to the warlock in question, so generally you're looking at eladrin nobility/rulers or at least high level eladrin.
Then again, it would be a pretty neat part of the game to have one PC (the warlock) having made a pact with another PC (the eladrin), though I'd hesitate before making one PC 100% the servant of another. It might be better to have the eladrin PC be a fellow servant and/or relative of the fey entity to which the warlock pledged the pact--and if that other eladrin were to perish at some point, the pact might at that point pass to the eladrin PC, which introduces a whole new set of complications to your game that could be really fun.
But anyway, yes, it is indeed possible.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Two questions for the sages
