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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 03:03:11
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I did a few searches on here, didn't find a thread that gathered together who the Yuir deities were so I figured I'd start one.
This is what I have, so far. I don't know if 4E or a novel displayed any more but here is what is officially known:
Elikarashae (subsumed by Shevarash)
Magnar the Bear (subsumed by Rillifane Rallathil)
Relkath of the Infinite Branches (subsumed by Rillifane Rallathil)
The Simbul (subsumed by Labelas Enoreth)
Zandilar the Dancer (subsumed by Sharess)
Out of the 10, only these 5 are known. I wonder when the other half will be revealed...?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 15:08:29
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I believe Lord Karsus already researched this during the Elven Netbook project.
IIRC, we had decided that both Umberlee and Auril were archfey and therefor possible Yuir Totem candidates. Funny thing is, we had come up with that before Auril got merged with the QoA&D (but it still works, perhaps even better). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Nov 2012 15:09:13 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 19:42:34
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| I remember from that thread one possible was Focalor the Prince of Tears |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2012 : 21:25:48
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Other than Zandilar and the Simbul (Alassra's namesake), I'm not sure if some deities were also named in Lynn Abbey's The Simbul's Gift. I'll try to check later. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 04:11:18
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Hi, sages, long time no see!
Work's been crazy lately, but I'm planning a short game in ancient Yuirwood and this topic interests me. I've found other threads about this issue, including these speculations from Quale:
Vanathor
Herne the Hunter
Sarula Iliene the Nixie Queen
Tilvenar
Leraje, the Green Herald
Khalreshaar
Focalor, Prince of Tears
I've also found Stag King stories (Herne?), and the theory about Auril and Umberlee. Were any of these confirmed by canon lately? I assume that the Yuir elves worshipped at least part of this pantheon, and thet the gods were "lost" some time after their arrival, but before 2e times, right? Hope you can help me.
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 16:44:18
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| And another question: are the Yuir Gods Ed's creation? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2014 : 21:09:31
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On the Stag King
The Stag King was a dark fey lord who ruled part of Ashenwood forest in Rashemen.
The Stag King was thousands of years old. Many centuries ago he agreed to aid a tribe of elves in exchange for the right to mate with three elven maidens. Over the generations, the Stag King's blood overpowered his descendent's elven blood and they began to resemble him. Years after he fathered his children, the Stag King returned and declared himself king of his mixed blood offspring.[1]
In 1479 DR, Zyl, one of the Stag King's servants, led the mercenary captain Aoth Fezim to his stronghold. Aoth was able to convince the Stag King to join with the Rashemi berserkers to attack the Durthan stronghold of the Fortress of the Half-Demon.[2]
During the battle, the Stag King held his warriors back and let the berserkers lead the assault although once his fey entered the battle, they were quite effective. The Durthans and their allies were driven into the tunnels below the fortress and the Stag King and allies were forced to enter the catacombs to finish off the Durthans. During a fight in the catacombs, the Stag King was tricked into separating himself from his warriors and was killed by Durthan vampires.[3]
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2014 : 02:02:07
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Very nice, sleyvas.
Well, I'm not sure he would be seen as a deity by the Yuir elves, but maybe yes. I think it's unlikely that Leraje would be venerated by them too, unless she was feared by them. It seems her fall happened before Lolth's and unless the humans worshipped her earlier version and the elves had forgotten about her legend, it doesn't make sense to me that they would follow her as an archer deity - Solonor would be the more obvious choice.
EDIT: Anybody else, have you found more info about this? Should I ask in Ed's thread? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 26 Aug 2014 15:03:01 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2014 : 02:09:19
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| Who are those other ones? Were there Yuir gods beyond the initial 7? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2014 : 03:35:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Who are those other ones? Were there Yuir gods beyond the initial 7?
I knew the original FIVE, not seven, from 2e references. And there you find the clues about a total of ten Yuir gods. Which seven are those you are talking about, Razz? Or is you talking about the Seven Lost Gods?  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2014 : 08:45:40
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I wrote this on my Chamber of Sages thread a while ago:
In the Dawn Ages, called by by some sages the Time of Dragons, the lands of modern-day Aglarond, Thesk, Ashanath, the Great Dale, Narfell and Impiltur were covered by a huge, nameless forest, of which the Yuirwood, the Forest of Lethyr and the Rawlinswood are the only surviving remnants. Primitive human tribes roamed this great forest, safe on the whole from the attention of the great dragons and later the giants who ruled.
Of these tribes, history has provided us with only a single name - the Yuir - and much of what we know about them comes from the unique means by which the Yuir, their history and some of their gods were subsumed into the historical record of the elves.
This grouping of human tribes, whom sages refer to as the Arthraen (from a bastardization of an elvish term for "forest hunters") had lived in the forests for millennia, eking out an existence whilst striving to avoid the predations of first the sarrukh of Okoth - who had a presence on what is now known as the Thaymount, which may have been a stronghold of the Ba'etith - and then the dragons and the giants who would raid the forests for food and slaves.
Elven history and the unique interactions between the elves who first came to the modern-day Yuirwood and the indigenous human population there, preserved some of the gods of the Arthraen. Those gods were Magnar, Relkath, Zandilar, Elikarashae and the Simbul. There were at least five others worshipped by the Yuir and assumedly by the the other humans of the forest lands. Their names and their areas of deific influence are lost to history. Sages and loremasters postulate that the known gods of the Arthraen had the following rough 'portfolios':
Relkath - nature
Magnar - war and strength
Zandilar - love and passion
Elikarashae - hunting and survival
Simbul - fate
It is thought that the Arthraen had gods for the sky/weather, hearth/home and tribal/familial life, and evil/darkness, but this is just postulation on the part of sages.
The last cohesive remnant of the humans known as the Arthraen were the ancient Nar. They turned away from the worship of their ancient gods and fell to venerating the dark powers of the Abyss. This occurred following their exposure to the horrors of Narathmault, the Dark Pit, known to modern historians as Dun Tharos. With the advent of their demon worship, all record of the ancient gods of the Arthraen was erased, save for what had been preserved in the Yuirwood.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 01:24:51
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| Cool entry, thank you very much, Mr. Krashos. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 03:18:24
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Just a note, and this is only a possibility. Here's from the entry for Sharess from Powers and Pantheons (pgs 51 and 52):
"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time. During this period, the Mulan and Turami peoples began to venerate Felidae, a goddess of felines, sensual pleasures, and nomads revered by the barbarians to the north and west, and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own."
Just from the fact that it was a goddess from the North and West of Mulhorand and Unther puts this ROUGHLY where the Yuir gods were located. That it occurs at the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther puts it after -734 DR, but also after the Untheric and Mulhorandi expansion into the Priador and the southern coast of what will become Aglarond. It COULD be that Felidae is another lost Yuir goddess. Of course, this would then mean that Bast subsumed not one but two of the Yuir goddesses. Personally, I prefer the idea that there used to be catfolk / rakasta and a variation of Lythari that changed into wild cats in the Eastern realms (and that these beings either fled to the Shaar, the Gulthmere Forest, and/or died out). Note, I'm also in favor of other animal-humanoids being in the area (such as lupins/gnolls/dog people... and various tauric beings like Hybsil, bariaurs, wemics, centaurs, minotaurs) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 08:04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
We really need more lore on the Arthraen.
I was having some thoughts just today on them and my next big project to potentially be unveiled at next year's GENCON ...
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 10:41:08
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Some very, very interesting stuff here George! I can't waitfor your GENCON project's reveal!
It's interesting to know the Nar did in fact worship someting other than the Demon Lords.
I think that the of theorized menbers of the Arthean pantheon:
-The tribal/familial life god may be The Stag King and/Or Herne(they may be the same being...)
- The sky/weather may be Fileet, Lady of Birds, or Aurilandür. She's the Queen of Air and Darkness, so it's possible that she had an even broather weather portfolio, before Talos took it away from her.
- evil/darkness can be a lot of Powers, but I don't think it would be Shar this time. I think it could be Auril(Queen of Air and Darkness), Moander(he/she/it was said to active and more popular during the Dawn Ages, and Age of Thunder)
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Just a note, and this is only a possibility. Here's from the entry for Sharess from Powers and Pantheons (pgs 51 and 52):
"At the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther, numerous beast cults gained popularity for a time. During this period, the Mulan and Turami peoples began to venerate Felidae, a goddess of felines, sensual pleasures, and nomads revered by the barbarians to the north and west, and in a very short time the more powerful Bast subsumed Felidae's portfolio and position into her own."
Just from the fact that it was a goddess from the North and West of Mulhorand and Unther puts this ROUGHLY where the Yuir gods were located. That it occurs at the height of the second empires of Mulhorand and Unther puts it after -734 DR, but also after the Untheric and Mulhorandi expansion into the Priador and the southern coast of what will become Aglarond. It COULD be that Felidae is another lost Yuir goddess. Of course, this would then mean that Bast subsumed not one but two of the Yuir goddesses. Personally, I prefer the idea that there used to be catfolk / rakasta and a variation of Lythari that changed into wild cats in the Eastern realms (and that these beings either fled to the Shaar, the Gulthmere Forest, and/or died out). Note, I'm also in favor of other animal-humanoids being in the area (such as lupins/gnolls/dog people... and various tauric beings like Hybsil, bariaurs, wemics, centaurs, minotaurs)
I'm not sure sleyvas, the Rakshasa are fiends, more related to the Deva and Arcanoloths, rather than reall "beast-men" races. And the Rakshasa aren't allways tiger like, they also take heads of Monkeys, and other animals. |
Edited by - Baltas on 04 Sep 2014 09:24:36 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 11:10:42
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That far back in the past none of the pantheons had yet merged into the Faerunian pantheon so it is quite possible (given that almost nothing survives of the Artraen today) that they worshipped none of the gods known to Faerun today.
The gods they worshipped could have been unique to the Arthraen and have portfolios owned by gods in other pantheons because the Arthraen would have had their own pantheon of gods.
They may not have even been gods at the time, merely powerful fey like creatures that the Arthean worshipped but was not actually a god (quasi powers and beast cults they used to be called before 3rd edition).
The whole "god" thing is a lot more complex than it at first appears, especially the further back in time you go with multiple, smaller, and possibly overlapping pantheons of gods for the various races.
As for Felidae, i took the "North and West" to refer to everything north and west of the borders of Mulhorand, that included Endless Wastes, Rashemen, Ashanath, Narfell, etc.
At around the time it mentions the beast cults, Raumathar and Narfell were in the midst of killing each other and the Suren were retreating from the Copper Demon of Tros and heading west.
I figured these two events were linked and groups of nomads were driven out of the endless wastes by the Suren and into Rashemen, Narfell, and Ashanath, before being driven south when the Suren invaded Rashemen (they had nowhere else to go west because of the dense forests and great glacier).
The whole migration into Mulhorand would have started in -240 and reach its height after -150 (when the Suren rode into Narfell following the destruction of the two empires).
Shortly after that time Mulhorand resettles Thay and so we have refugees from the north and west coming into Mulhorand.
We know the nomads of the endless wastes dont really bother worshipping gods, they are all about spirits and beast cults and other tribal worship.
Anyway thats how i rationalised the small snippet for Felidae. At the time of the second empire Aglarond, Altumbel, and the Wizards Reach was being swapped between Unther, Mulhorand, Narfell, and Raumathar and so probably wouldnt have had that many beast cults nor anything to prompt a large scale migration of only beast cultists into Mulhorandi territory.
Of course that doesnt mean Felidae wasnt one of the Lost Yuir gods, the Arthraen may have occupied all the territory from Impiltur to Thay at one point and so her worship may have been prevalent throughout the region and even spread into the Endless Wastes where it continued long past the point of the her worship among the Arthraen (once the Nar turned to demon worship). |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 12:11:04
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Actualy, I added The Stag King and Herne, as they seem to tied to the region were Arthraen was, and added Auril and Fileet, as they fit the Primal spirit/Archfey nature of the being the Artheans worshipped. And both Herne and Auril were already theorized to be among the Yuir pantheon for years.
Moander, I got here as s/he is mentioned to be incredibly old, and is said it is Moander that orchestrated the fall of the Creator Races.
In my homebrew it's s/he that corrupted Aurilandür into the Queen of Air and Darkness on Toril. In general, I have that the 3 Lost Gods from Monster Mythology(The Dark God(Tharizdun), Juiblex(The Faceless Lord), and The Elder Elemental God)(different from the 7 Faerunian ones), manifest, and merge differently, depending on the world were talking about. On Oerth The Dark God absorbed the Elder Elemental God, becoming Tharizdun, while on Toril The Elder Elemental God Absorbed Juiblex, becoming Ghaunadaur. The Dark God on Toril in turn became Moander the Darkbringer.
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Edited by - Baltas on 04 Sep 2014 09:50:47 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2014 : 20:10:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
I'm not sure sleyvas, the Rakshasa are fiends, more related to the Deva and Arcanoloths, rather than reall "beast-men" races. And the Rakshasa aren't allways tiger like, they also take heads of Monkeys, and other animals.
Sleyvas was actually mentioning RAKASTA, not RAKSHASA. Rakasta are similar to catfolk, and like the lupins he also mentions, come from 2e or older sources, and from the Savage Coast, IIRC. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 09:22:17
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Whoops...Then my apologies for Sleyvas, I made a stupid mistake.
[EDIT]
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Very nice, sleyvas.
Well, I'm not sure he would be seen as a deity by the Yuir elves, but maybe yes. I think it's unlikely that Leraje would be venerated by them too, unless she was feared by them. It seems her fall happened before Lolth's and unless the humans worshipped her earlier version and the elves had forgotten about her legend, it doesn't make sense to me that they would follow her as an archer deity - Solonor would be the more obvious choice.
EDIT: Anybody else, have you found more info about this? Should I ask in Ed's thread?
Hmm, I'm not sure if elves feared Leraje, she's noted to be especialy sympathetic towards elves, and feels guilty about her actions.
An often argument to include her among the Yuir deities, or even just in Faeun, is that she and the Vestige Amon, don't like eachother. Amon doesn't like also Karsus, and the book says to replace him(Amon) with Amaunator in Forgotten Realms. |
Edited by - Baltas on 04 Sep 2014 10:01:41 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 11:17:49
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I'm a fan of the concept that there were multiple regional pantheons with either separate, smaller deities or larger, current deities being worshipped with different names. One only has to read "Prayers of the Faithful" to see that Ed subscribes to the notion that gods in the Realms have multiple names. I would attribute some to rituals of worship, but others to the fact that deities swallowed up and subsumed a host of smaller deities when the Faerunian pantheon was established. So, in my Realms, the proto-humans who lived north of the great forests of Cormanthyr (and were responsible for building the Citadel of the Raven) worshipped Irmider who would later become a part of Silvanus, Enthandas as Selune, Arnaglaerus as Gond, etc. etc.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2014 : 14:19:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
I'm not sure sleyvas, the Rakshasa are fiends, more related to the Deva and Arcanoloths, rather than reall "beast-men" races. And the Rakshasa aren't allways tiger like, they also take heads of Monkeys, and other animals.
Sleyvas was actually mentioning RAKASTA, not RAKSHASA. Rakasta are similar to catfolk, and like the lupins he also mentions, come from 2e or older sources, and from the Savage Coast, IIRC.
Yes, that's what I meant. I truthfully picture this area of the realms as having little human influence and more influence by many races of "beast men" of various types. Hengeyokai would fit well in the area, and I actually see these Hengeyokai and the local tribes of Lythari to be allies (possibly even their interbreeding causing the Lythari to develop their shapechanging). Also, in 3e, there was included a goatfolk race called Ibixians who would fit the area well. I picture the Quaggoth as being a surface race in the area worshipping Magnar the ear. I also picture a strong lizard influence growing in the Priador area (which possibly wasn't as "raised" as it is now), and one of the races I see created by the creator races to mimic the centaurs/hybsil/wemics (or a non-lion but still cat version of wemic)/bariaur is the Dracotaur (which possibly didn't have its ability to spit fire at that time, or possibly did). There were also likely lots of plant beings in the area.
So, in essence, my viewpoint on these Yuir gods are that they were actually the gods of these other races, and the primitive humans who came along picked up the worship of these other races gods (possibly the gods of the other races looking for new worshippers in the decline of their own races). So, the Plant folk (and possibly the elves) worshipped Relkath of the Infinite Branches. The Quaggoths worshipped Magnar the Bear. Possibly the various cat folk worshipped Felidae. The gnolls, lupins, tauric-dog people worshipped a canine oriented being (possibly even the primordial wolf). Then the elves brought along Elikarashae and the Simbul. Zandilar the dancer could have even been some kind of god of say the hybsil or the Ibixians or something else. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2014 : 02:10:47
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| Is dracotaur an existing race? Your mention brought to my memory the Spelljammer "Dracons"... |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2014 : 23:09:41
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm a fan of the concept that there were multiple regional pantheons with either separate, smaller deities or larger, current deities being worshipped with different names. One only has to read "Prayers of the Faithful" to see that Ed subscribes to the notion that gods in the Realms have multiple names. I would attribute some to rituals of worship, but others to the fact that deities swallowed up and subsumed a host of smaller deities when the Faerunian pantheon was established. So, in my Realms, the proto-humans who lived north of the great forests of Cormanthyr (and were responsible for building the Citadel of the Raven) worshipped Irmider who would later become a part of Silvanus, Enthandas as Selune, Arnaglaerus as Gond, etc. etc.
-- George Krashos
Great Lore, as allways George, I plan campaign in Dalelans and Moonsea, so I use this!
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, in essence, my viewpoint on these Yuir gods are that they were actually the gods of these other races, and the primitive humans who came along picked up the worship of these other races gods (possibly the gods of the other races looking for new worshippers in the decline of their own races). So, the Plant folk (and possibly the elves) worshipped Relkath of the Infinite Branches. The Quaggoths worshipped Magnar the Bear. Possibly the various cat folk worshipped Felidae. The gnolls, lupins, tauric-dog people worshipped a canine oriented being (possibly even the primordial wolf). Then the elves brought along Elikarashae and the Simbul. Zandilar the dancer could have even been some kind of god of say the hybsil or the Ibixians or something else.
Good ideas sleyvas, but I think that Zandilar was a Fey goddess/power, and while the Ibixians are fey, Zandilar's blue skin may idicate she worshipped by a diffent species of Fey or Beastmen.
The only blue-skinned Fey I remember, are quicklings. The Quicklings have very short lives, by the age of ten, they are elderly, and they often die before they reach a dozen years. So the portfolio of Zandilar, that 'focused on intense passionate love that burned quickly and died out' might fit a deity that originated from such a short lived folk. The only problem is the quicklings tendency to be evil. Maybe she was worshipped by the quicklings ancestors, who had still more of their brownie ancestors traits? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 01:53:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm a fan of the concept that there were multiple regional pantheons with either separate, smaller deities or larger, current deities being worshipped with different names. One only has to read "Prayers of the Faithful" to see that Ed subscribes to the notion that gods in the Realms have multiple names. I would attribute some to rituals of worship, but others to the fact that deities swallowed up and subsumed a host of smaller deities when the Faerunian pantheon was established. So, in my Realms, the proto-humans who lived north of the great forests of Cormanthyr (and were responsible for building the Citadel of the Raven) worshipped Irmider who would later become a part of Silvanus, Enthandas as Selune, Arnaglaerus as Gond, etc. etc.
-- George Krashos
Great Lore, as allways George, I plan campaign in Dalelans and Moonsea, so I use this!
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, in essence, my viewpoint on these Yuir gods are that they were actually the gods of these other races, and the primitive humans who came along picked up the worship of these other races gods (possibly the gods of the other races looking for new worshippers in the decline of their own races). So, the Plant folk (and possibly the elves) worshipped Relkath of the Infinite Branches. The Quaggoths worshipped Magnar the Bear. Possibly the various cat folk worshipped Felidae. The gnolls, lupins, tauric-dog people worshipped a canine oriented being (possibly even the primordial wolf). Then the elves brought along Elikarashae and the Simbul. Zandilar the dancer could have even been some kind of god of say the hybsil or the Ibixians or something else.
Good ideas sleyvas, but I think that Zandilar was a Fey goddess/power, and while the Ibixians are fey, Zandilar's blue skin may idicate she worshipped by a diffent species of Fey or Beastmen.
The only blue-skinned Fey I remember, are quicklings. The Quicklings have very short lives, by the age of ten, they are elderly, and they often die before they reach a dozen years. So the portfolio of Zandilar, that 'focused on intense passionate love that burned quickly and died out' might fit a deity that originated from such a short lived folk. The only problem is the quicklings tendency to be evil. Maybe she was worshipped by the quicklings ancestors, who had still more of their brownie ancestors traits?
Hmmmm, blue skinned fey being? So, possibly water oriented... possibly "winter" oriented.... Could Zandilar the dancer have been a goddess of ice skating? Possibly a love child of Auril's raised by a Yuir deity (as in maybe a Yuir deity "stole" his child after Auril birthed it)? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 22:24:49
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Hmm, It's a possibily that Zandilar was Auril's child, and I and a few others proposed allready that the Ice Maiden might actually been a member of the Yuir/Arthraen pantheon. I think that Zandilar might have been the Quicklings patron, but with her death, Auril took over as the races patron, which caused the majority of this fey species to shift to evil.
By the way, I think that another candidate for a member of the pantheon, under the sky/weather portfolio, might have been Syranita, who could have been worhipped by the Avariel and Aearee originaly. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 01:32:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Hmm, It's a possibily that Zandilar was Auril's child, and I and a few others proposed allready that the Ice Maiden might actually been a member of the Yuir/Arthraen pantheon. I think that Zandilar might have been the Quicklings patron, but with her death, Auril took over as the races patron, which caused the majority of this fey species to shift to evil.
By the way, I think that another candidate for a member of the pantheon, under the sky/weather portfolio, might have been Syranita, who could have been worhipped by the Avariel and Aearee originaly.
Hmmm, I like the idea of Zandilar being their patron. Maybe it was simply the death of Zandilar (i.e. their creator) that turned the Quicklings to evil, and not necessarily any turning to Auril. However, a linkage between Zandilar and Auril does make sense as well. Maybe Zandilar was a being birthed of Aurilandur (the frost sprite queen) before she was affected by the black gem.... possibly a being birthed of Aurilandur and Ulutiu (he was a sea god in the area... with relations to cold).
Hmmm, Zandilar was assaulted by an underdark deity (Vhaeraun), who also birthed Selvetarm on her..... and Auril was affected by the power of the black gem (rumored to have been created by a "dark god" of the underdark)..... I wonder.... Might the drow pantheon and the Yuir gods have come to a head at some time? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 07:45:01
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It's quite possible they did have some fights. Interestingly, Auril was a member of Anti-Seldarine(Different from Dark Seldarine), along with Gruumsh, Malar and Lloth.
The "Dark God" is usualy said to be Tharizdun, which in the Realms would translate to either Shar, Moander or Ghaunadaur. In my own Forgotten Realms campaign, I have Moander as the Dark God/Tharizdun's counterpart. Also Elves seem to have an ancient antagonism/relationship with the Darkbringer, and Lloth assumed his/her/it's name in order to get more worshippers among surface elves. Not to mention, the corruption of Auril, was very similar to the corruption of Tyche, that gave birth to
Tymora and Beshaba.
[Edit]
Elikarashae was said to be an enemy of drow and trolls, and apparently the original Black Archer. Maybe she was killed in a fight between the Drow and Yuir Pantheons. Shevarash was then merged with her remains, to become the new Black Archer, I think the situation being something similar to that with Mystryl, Mystra and Midnight. This would give an even deeper meaning to Shevarash's hatred of drow, as it's not only his own, but is also strengthened by the hate he inherited from Elikarashae.
[Edit2]
Also, what is interesting, Auril has Moander among her foes... |
Edited by - Baltas on 13 Sep 2014 11:17:23 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 18:39:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Baltas
Elikarashae was said to be an enemy of drow and trolls, and apparently the original Black Archer. Maybe she was killed in a fight between the Drow and Yuir Pantheons. Shevarash was then merged with her remains, to become the new Black Archer, I think the situation being something similar to that with Mystryl, Mystra and Midnight. This would give an even deeper meaning to Shevarash's hatred of drow, as it's not only his own, but is also strengthened by the hate he inherited from Elikarashae.
Also, what is interesting, Auril has Moander among her foes...
I've noticed you're refering to Elikarashae as a female warrior, but no 2e source leads us to believe the warrior was female, and at least one actually makes me believe the deity was a male warrior before apotheosis. Are there later sources changing this? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Known Yuir Gods
