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The Hidden Lord
Learned Scribe
148 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:26:35
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I'm not as up on my R.A. Salvatore lore as I should be; I was hoping that someone here could answer a question for me...
When did Timoshenko ascend to Grandfather of Assassins?
The mega-monk Kane defeated a previous Grandfather is 1357...did Timoshenko assume the mantle immediately after?
Also, what is up with the dating system used in "The Bloodstone Lands"? (FR1137= 1347DR??)
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 00:14:34
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the dating system was brought over from a non-FR source and when it was retconned in in some of the FR sources they missed the dates, ... so the FR1137 is just a "typo"
i will post what i have on Timoshenko as soon as i can find it |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 00:17:50
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12. Timoshenko, Grandfather of Assassins [fighter 19] (FR9 p5,53) (H1 p28) (H1 Roster Book p6) (PotWK p49,50) (RotP p109)
a. Fights with serrated-edged two-handed sword +5 (FR9 p53)
b. Once a follower of Orcus (FR9 p53)
c. Based in Citadel of Assassins and main goal is to keep its location secret (FR9 p53)
with the fact of him being listed in H1 Bloodstone Pass ... which is the first printed Bloodstone source .... it is safe to assume that he inherited the job in 1357 |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 00:20:15
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the "former" Grandfather is mentioned in H3 p23-24
and in FR he is mentioned as the "previous" GoA so i am assuming that Timoshenko was the immediate successor ... also being a follower of Orcus matches up with the Witch-Kings rise in power |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 02:40:38
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The first and second edition sourcebook are a bit different, and neither Timo or Knellict are mentioned in the 2e.
The exact date is not listed in the sourcebook, but he rose shortly after the previous grandfather's fall with Knellict backing him. Knellict did not want the Cleric Banak taking the position, and while Timoshenko is grandfather, Knellict has fee reign because Timoshenko knows better than to cross him.
Knellect was actually surprised as Timo surpassed his expectations. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 03:07:03
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This is my understanding of the revised chronology of the Bloodstone Lands:
Rise of Zhengyi, Witch-King of Vaasa & Castle Perilous: Winter, Late 1347 DR
Wolf Winter: Winter, Late 1347 DR
Zhengyi closes Bloodstone Pass & begins war against Damara: Late spring 1348 DR
H1: Late summer - Late autumn, 1357 DR
H2: Late autumn, 1357 DR - 1st day of spring (21 Ches), 1358 DR
H3: May/Mirtul, 1358 DR - Autumn, 1358 DR?
H4: Autumn, 1358 DR? - Spring, 1359 DR?
FR9: Summer, 1359 DR (a "few months" since Zhengyi's fall)
H1 did not mention the Grandfather of Assassins being killed, and Timoshenko is described as a capable bandit army commander. H2 did not mention either the GOA or Timoshenko. And H3 still featured an "old man" (p24) GOA, with no mention of Timoshenko. Therefore, the original intention was apparently that the Grandfather wasn't killed by the PCs (at least not until the end of H3, as he is not mentioned in H4 at all). Nevertheless, FR9 (p5) indicates that Kane killed the Grandfather of Assassins during H1 (Late autumn, 1357 DR).
Similarly, H2 says that Banak was killed during H1, with his ghost doing harm in H2, and even semi-materializing again. But FR9 says that Banak is actually back, under mysterious circumstances.
My best guess is that FR9 changed the original intent on both these fronts. Most importantly here, it had the previous GOA killed off in H1 (autumn, 1357 DR), and then Timoshenko must've taken over soon thereafter.
If the previous GOA died in late autumn, 1357 DR (H1), and there is a GOA in Mirtul, 1358 DR (H3), then someone had to have taken the leadership position within a matter of months. The lore does not mention anyone other than Timoshenko, so he must've been the GOA of H3.
Here's a key quote:
quote:
When the bandit army was thrown down and the monk Kane killed the Grandfather of Assassins, Timoshenko rose to new heights of power. Backed by Arch-mage Knellict, the mighty fighter stepped in as the new Grandfather of Assassins ahead of the cleric Banak. With his power diminished by the fall of his deity, Banak could not openly challenge the awesome power of Knellict and Timoshenko together. (FR9, p53: "Timoshenko")
Timoshenko is said to have stepped in as the new leader ahead of Banak.
The previously mentioned lore about Banak having been killed may actually be part of the explanation. With both the previous GOA and Banak dead at the end of H1, Timoshenko could've had the job wide open for him. And even when Banak's ghost returned and semi-materialized (H2), it was already too late, for Timoshenko had the backing of Knellict. There is mention of a GOA in H3, but nary a peep of fallen Banak. And then when Orcus was banished in H4, Banak's possible ambitions for leadership were further beaten down. But per FR9, they were not entirely quashed. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 19:55:03
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| As I see it, Salvatore chose to write FR9 with the understanding that things went a certain way in the H-series modules. Of course, what happens in a given campaign is between individual players and their DM, so your history may differ from FR9. Personally, I like Salvatore's rendition of it. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2012 : 22:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
This is my understanding of the revised chronology of the Bloodstone Lands:
Rise of Zhengyi, Witch-King of Vaasa & Castle Perilous: Winter, Late 1347 DR
Wolf Winter: Winter, Late 1347 DR
Zhengyi closes Bloodstone Pass & begins war against Damara: Late spring 1348 DR
H1: Late summer - Late autumn, 1357 DR
H2: Late autumn, 1357 DR - 1st day of spring (21 Ches), 1358 DR
H3: May/Mirtul, 1358 DR - Autumn, 1358 DR?
H4: Autumn, 1358 DR? - Spring, 1359 DR?
FR9: Summer, 1359 DR (a "few months" since Zhengyi's fall)
H1 did not mention the Grandfather of Assassins being killed, and Timoshenko is described as a capable bandit army commander. H2 did not mention either the GOA or Timoshenko. And H3 still featured an "old man" (p24) GOA, with no mention of Timoshenko. Therefore, the original intention was apparently that the Grandfather wasn't killed by the PCs (at least not until the end of H3, as he is not mentioned in H4 at all). Nevertheless, FR9 (p5) indicates that Kane killed the Grandfather of Assassins during H1 (Late autumn, 1357 DR).
Similarly, H2 says that Banak was killed during H1, with his ghost doing harm in H2, and even semi-materializing again. But FR9 says that Banak is actually back, under mysterious circumstances.
My best guess is that FR9 changed the original intent on both these fronts. Most importantly here, it had the previous GOA killed off in H1 (autumn, 1357 DR), and then Timoshenko must've taken over soon thereafter.
If the previous GOA died in late autumn, 1357 DR (H1), and there is a GOA in Mirtul, 1358 DR (H3), then someone had to have taken the leadership position within a matter of months. The lore does not mention anyone other than Timoshenko, so he must've been the GOA of H3.
Here's a key quote:
quote:
When the bandit army was thrown down and the monk Kane killed the Grandfather of Assassins, Timoshenko rose to new heights of power. Backed by Arch-mage Knellict, the mighty fighter stepped in as the new Grandfather of Assassins ahead of the cleric Banak. With his power diminished by the fall of his deity, Banak could not openly challenge the awesome power of Knellict and Timoshenko together. (FR9, p53: "Timoshenko")
Timoshenko is said to have stepped in as the new leader ahead of Banak.
The previously mentioned lore about Banak having been killed may actually be part of the explanation. With both the previous GOA and Banak dead at the end of H1, Timoshenko could've had the job wide open for him. And even when Banak's ghost returned and semi-materialized (H2), it was already too late, for Timoshenko had the backing of Knellict. There is mention of a GOA in H3, but nary a peep of fallen Banak. And then when Orcus was banished in H4, Banak's possible ambitions for leadership were further beaten down. But per FR9, they were not entirely quashed.
One of the 1st edition modules indicated that kane killed the grandfather. Just need to find the page.....
Seems the FR9 indicated that Celeron was the one who struck the fatal blow and stole the wand of orcus, which ruined orcus and in turn Zhengy |
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Timoshenko, Grandfather of Assassins
