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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 00:09:32
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Hi.. After reading some interesting necromantic lore it got me thinking...
If you can cast a spell like Ray of Enfeeblement then what is to stop someone from making a version that does con or dex or cha damage???
I’m guessing that it would be possible to create a version of that spell that did any of the six different abilities as damage. That would mean quite some tweaking, but with the right amount of time spent, in and off game I see it possible.
What is the take on this by the High Council of Candlekeep???
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 02:01:56
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| Ability draining of any ability has existed in many Editions, crafting a new spell also is possible. The only one that can stop is the DM from a spell like: a Ray of Ugly, Ray of Clumsy or Ray of Health draining. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 02:14:52
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I like the sound of the "Ray of Beastification" which drains Charisma until the target is just stunned senseless by their own ugliness!
Would be a good spell to use on people who use Charisma for a dump stat!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 03:09:57
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| Well I did not but much thought into naming the possible spells, however a ray of <foo> could be crafted for every stat. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 03:48:16
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My vote is for Ray of Idiocy (INT)!
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 09:12:05
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There is also the psion power, ego whip. It does Charisma damage.
BTW, Ray of Enfeeblement inflicts a penalty to Strength - rather than Strength damage - which, I think, is for game balance reasons (otherwise multiple Rays would stack their effects).
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Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 10:31:24
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| Just as I suspected. I will not put al my effort into making the "Shivering Touch" from Frostburn into a con damage effect instead of a dex. That would kill so many! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11806 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2012 : 18:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
Hi.. After reading some interesting necromantic lore it got me thinking...
If you can cast a spell like Ray of Enfeeblement then what is to stop someone from making a version that does con or dex or cha damage???
I’m guessing that it would be possible to create a version of that spell that did any of the six different abilities as damage. That would mean quite some tweaking, but with the right amount of time spent, in and off game I see it possible.
What is the take on this by the High Council of Candlekeep???
Can it be developed? yes. Should it be developed with the same numeric numbers/effects? No (if we're talking 3rd edition). I see ray of enfeeblement as already overpowered, because its 1st level with no save requirement. Therefore, if the caster were say 12th level as an example, the dmg is 1d6+5. If it were empowered, this becomes 1d6 + 1d3 +5 averaging 10-11 strength loss with no save as a 3rd lvl effect. Given that most wizards don't have a lot in str, this is usually an insta-cripple. Having versions that target stats like Charisma would be devastating to many classes and not just one. Ones that hit wisdom and intelligence would also cripple several classes by ruining ALL their spellcasting or devastating the classes like fighter who don't put a lot in say wisdom. Therefore, if I were to use them as a basis, the rays that affect int, wis, and char would have must smaller effects and possibly be higher in level OR get rid of the "no save" parameter so as to allow resistance. Given that most people won't stint on Con below 10 or dex below 10 (and most will give at least a 12 in each), I could see there being rays that affect such (for which I'd say make it the same 1d6 but with no modifier). Game balance must be thought about when it comes to this stuff and just swapping out one word for another shouldn't happen, and using a relatively broken spell as a basis for developing other spells is always a bad idea for balance.
For comparison, Feeblemind is a 5th lvl spell... and it requires a save. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2012 : 18:50:40
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Feeblemind - in AD&D 2E, at least - could only affect spellcasters. Useful but specialized; it could neutralize a wizard but has little effect on a fighter or many monsters (most of which aren't all that bright-minded to begin with anyhow).
In terms of "game balance", I would judge that an equivalent might be, say, a ray of hideous discordance (or whatever) spell of the same level which could basically only target bards. A spell which could affect anybody/anything would probably need to be higher level or have some other "balancing" factor applied, like limits on range or duration. Woe to multiclassed victims.
I note that plenty of spells exist which effectively duplicate the ability-draining attacks of various monsters; shadows, mummies, ghouls, vampires, liches, umber hulks, etc.
A generous DM might allow casters access to reversed forms of spells like strength. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Nov 2012 18:52:32 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 01:11:55
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Theres a corrupt spell level 2 in Book of vile darkness that deals 5d4 dexterity damage, no save. It can be maxed to instantly paralyze any character with 20 and lower Dex. A greatwyrm Red dragon has 10 Dex...
Needless to say, most DM ban this, if the player were dirty enough to use it. |
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Ability damage spells
