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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 07:18:26
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In Richard Lee Byers rogue dragons trilogy, book 2,
the main heroes team up with a band of ogres in finding an ancient town or big center of worship in the great gray land.
They discover a vast ruined city, with a big center of worship for all kind of demonic / evil gods.
Is there some lore existing on this ruin, I know it belonged to the kingdom of Vorbyx, first king of Thar, but no name was mentioned or any other information given.
looking forward to info.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 18:52:50
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I'd connect it to The People of the Black Sails and Bane's empire, but I don't know if the two were connected canonically (I would think the Ogre kingdom was a survivor state of the human/humanoid empire that once ruled the moonsea).
It could have been the capital of Bane's kingdom - it sounds like his kind of town. So if the ogres were enslaved or mistreated by that nation, then they would have avoided the place after its fall.
I get the feeling the People of the Black Sails was one of the few (only?) human/humanoid kingdoms to ever be founded - a mix of human scum and humanoids. The humanoids would have reverted to tribalism, and the humans would have broken into the separte city-states we see in that region (all of which seems to be populated with descendents of that human scum).
Then there was the King in Copper - Aesperus. Not sure how he and his kingdom fit into everything else about the region. Apparently that kingdom was going strong around 1050 DR, so it may or not be the same kingdom as the People of the Black Sails. His kingdom - based around Thentia - may have also been a 'survivor state' of an earlier Bane-lead Empire. We really do need a comprehensive Moonsea sourcebook.
I will have to read that novel and see if I can glean any useful bits (like the age of the ruins). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Oct 2012 18:54:01 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 20:37:27
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Thx for this,
pardon me, but which novel, the rogue-dragons one?
It is in there, page 47 and following.
yes, the one from the 3e was- my opinion - much much worse than the 2e one.
Also I liked "Ruins of Zehntil Keep" which had some good info.
Also I got confused, when the heroes there were searching the "Area around a huge lake" in thar, I have never seen or heard of anything similar. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2012 : 23:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakuta Khan
Thx for this,
pardon me, but which novel, the rogue-dragons one?
It is in there, page 47 and following.
yes, the one from the 3e was- my opinion - much much worse than the 2e one.
Also I liked "Ruins of Zehntil Keep" which had some good info.
Also I got confused, when the heroes there were searching the "Area around a huge lake" in thar, I have never seen or heard of anything similar.
As to lakes:
Lake Hul north of Hulburg
Lake Thentar north of Thentia
"The Bloodmuck" north and east of Melvaunt
Glumpen Swamp has a sizeable lake in it...it is near the Dragonspine Mts.
Lake Longreach lays between Thar and The Ride proper.
EDIT: forgot the punchline...The Tharkul's Palace sits just north of Lake Thentar if that helps. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 24 Oct 2012 00:02:14 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 00:00:09
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On the other issue of The People of the Black Sails, I've yet to find positive proof that it was a remnant of anything at all...but it seems most likely that it was a remnant of or descended state of the forces once gathered by Tyranthraxus (who I say was once known as Hraxus the Tyrant...an ancient foe of Barze of Netheril...but that is lore of my own creation for my material).
Most likely the Black Sails were remnants of Tyranthraxus minions who continued to organize the might of the northern shore and inland...and Tyranthraxus himself was subject to Bane. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 00:37:13
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Yeah, I think the "People of the Black Sails" was something applied to a groups of similar peoples from a series of kingdoms that rose and fell over time in that region (hence no specific name). Its similar to the RW 'Sea Peoples' in that context.
As for Thar, several lakes are shown on THE MAP, and there are few more in that area that can be seen on other maps (like the ones pertaining to Phlan). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 00:37:58 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 06:45:43
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@Markustay, thx for the map reference again. I just have the faerun map from the 3e frcs at hand.
they also mention statues of demons with many arms, might these be from Yeenoghu?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 20:19:06
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You may want to ask Brian James some of this stuff - he and his brother did Monument of the Ancients.
From what I gather, his 'vision' is that the Dark three either used the northern Moonsea region as a base of operations while they were trying to obtain godhood, or that was their last stopping-point on that road (if I want to ascend to godhood, I'd build an empire and make myself a godking - belief leads to truth when it comes to dogma).
They also seemed to have 'trafficked' with various other deities (aside from the Lost seven), along with some archfiends. Ascending is hard enough alone, but is exponentially difficult when you are trying to bring your buddies along for the ride. 
EDIT: I just recalled another (hair-brained?) theory of mine, and it took me awhile to find the relevant quote -
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And just because this whole thing is D&D, I'd like to think there was a fourth member of their little group (A Warrior, a Mage, A Thief, and a priest). Not sure which way to go with that, except the priest should be female, only because the other three are male. I suspect their knowledge of 'ancient, fallen powers' stemmed from that source (and set them on their quest for godhood).
She (or he) may have been betrayed by the others (I'm picturing a sacrifice here), died early during the quest, or turned on the others (a change of heart?) It could go any which way at that point, considering that's homebrew piled on top of pure conjecture.
Hmmmm... if I tie this to my musing about the mortal survival of kiputytto... this may solve yet another lore conundrum. If anyone would have known quite a bit about FR's cosmology, it would have been one of its fallen powers.
I'm glad this came up, because its all coming full-circle. I need to write some history for the Stonelands region for a project I am working on, and Kiputytto features in that (as does Talona). Maybe I can tie this together now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 20:44:44 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:34:30
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| Some of your 'The Ride' material could come in handy here, Dalor. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Oct 2012 08:45:39 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 21:41:10
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I do have a LOAD of material in the works regarding the lands of Thar...especially relating to Giants/Ogres.
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance yet to read a couple of novels I need to knock out before finishing the project...and those books are the primary reason I couldn't find the time to finish the project to start with! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2012 : 06:50:12
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@Dalor Thx for map.
If I do not like 4e as a setting, I must admit the maps are, by drawing style not necessary be correctness, looking very nice. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 04:16:30
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| You should read Elminster's Ecologies' Great Gray Land Of Thar book. The end has a section on a 'Lost Kingdom' and 'Secrets' which would work as an answer for you. |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2013 : 06:37:28
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| Thanks for that! |
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Thar ruins
