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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 19:44:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Also a note about the tiefling picture: I saw that and thought "ah, 4e!" but honestly, a pre-4e tiefling could have looked like that, if she manifested those specific traits. What I'd really like to see is tieflings that look different as well, though I can understand only one tiefling pic in the book. I get the sense tieflings are very rare (if they exist at all) in Ed's campaign.
What about that pic of all the nobles with the bloody weapons? A little over the top, but hey, I get the point.
Cheers
I didn't fully expand on that tiefling mention, since I was trying to answer a bunch of questions, but I agree that it's not necessarily a "4e tiefling." What I meant was that it was "4e-era tiefling art." At least I personally use the tiefling variety from Planescape, so I defintely think there are tieflings out there that look like that.
By the way, while we're on the subject of art, can I say how much I like much of the art in the book. Along with the page design as well, the border of the page is nice. And that entire tiefling artwork piece is really good. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 19:57:56
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Erik, on your larger post, I don't think anyone here ever thought that the book would be "the entirety of Ed's Realms." That's an impossibility, and everyone knows it. What I expected, and was led to believe from the marketing, was that this would be a guide/overview of the Realms as it was originally. The "single chef" days, if you will, before it was turned over to TSR and all of the other designers and authors joined in.
You can see some of that in the book: its more narrow geographic scope, the references to Thay and Rashemen and the deep south like Halruaa that conflict with existing regional sourcebooks. But at the same time you've got references to the 2e 1360's, the 3e 1370's, and the 4e 1400's all over the place. Gods that were never in Ed's Realms (Cyric and Finder). Gods that aren't as in the original Realms (Lurue). etc. The book exists in this weird in-between space, not the pure, original Ed's Realms that was promised, but not exactly a "modern day" Realms product either. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 20:07:15
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Tieflings do indeed exist in all versions of the Forgotten Realms if you ask me.
Originally, Cambions and Alu-Fiends were the spawn of the lower planes...and those have recorded spawn in the Forgotten Realms as well if I recall (I'll have to find the exact example). Even Xvim is a spawn of the lower planes.
I apply the word Tiefling loosely here mind you...but in even the earliest records of the Realms, I recall mortal scions of the lower planes existing in Realmslore. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 20:18:41
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| Oh, I agree completely. Very, very rare, but definitely present. But the question was whether there were any 4e tieflings (which is sort of an odd way of phrasing the question, actually - would a 2e tiefling have been more acceptable?) and all I was trying to say was that I hadn't seen any mentions of tieflings in the text, but that there was one drawing of a "4e style" tiefling on one page. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 21:52:08
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I hear you, Hoondatha. I don't know for sure and don't want to speak for him, but I suspect Ed happily incorporated things from more current visions of the realms in order to be welcoming to fans of all eras. All along, he has stated that while his original realms didn't have things that were invented later, they still fit. I don't know if it's practical to provide products that completely kick that to the curb, but minimizing it seems reasonable, and that's what this book does.
I think a campaign run with the OGB and this book would be pretty darn awesome.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2012 : 22:54:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
I hear you, Hoondatha. I don't know for sure and don't want to speak for him, but I suspect Ed happily incorporated things from more current visions of the realms in order to be welcoming to fans of all eras. All along, he has stated that while his original realms didn't have things that were invented later, they still fit. I don't know if it's practical to provide products that completely kick that to the curb, but minimizing it seems reasonable, and that's what this book does.
I think a campaign run with the OGB and this book would be pretty darn awesome.
Cheers
I agree...this book gave me glimpses of things the OGB didn't have room to touch on...and now that I have it, I feel that my game will be even more fun!
I especially like the small details that just didn't get included prior to now in something more "official" for me to draw from. Simple dishes, words, ideas, poisons...all amazing stuff. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 11:37:14
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| Ed Greenwood Presents is great, it is like WotC found some lost never printed FR golden age product and released it. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 12:59:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
It's definitely deceptive marketing, and a bad thing on WotC's part.
. . . they promised us a book of Ed's original Realms as it was when he first turned it over to TSR. They should deliver on that promise.
Once again, WotC promise one thing and deliver another; this was what I was afraid of 
Thanks, but no thanks  |
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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 16:44:40
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| Before you say thanks but no thanks, for the sake of us ever getting a book like this again please give it a look first. If you read it and don't like it then of course don't buy it, but if this sells well we'll get more like it, so please make sure you don't like it before you opt out. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 16:50:09
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| Agreed. Though not what they promised, this book is still better than most if not all 3e Realms products, and it is mostly concerned with the 1350's and Heartlands. And it's got lots of really interesting things on the main pantheon (though no Sharess, sadly) and other areas that haven't been covered much. It's worth it from a lore perspective and a "WotC, do this more and better" perspective to pick up. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 18:15:27
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For anyone who's curious about where we were getting the expectations that the book didn't entirely fulfill, check out the WotC quote in the post announcing the product.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16156
"... all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign" to me sounds like "Ed's original campaign," what I've occasionally called the "single chef days."
Now, we can argue whether or not what we got is a good book (IMO it is), or if it gives us lore we've never had before (again, IMO it does), but looking at that product announcement I'm not sure how it's possible for someone to argue that it isn't the book that they were promising.
(cross-posted in the other product thread) |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 18:32:25
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| I'd really like to see Ed take a crack at the demihuman deities in the same format he did for the primary pantheon. Bet that'd be pretty slick. :) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 18:37:38
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| That would be VERY slick. And long overdue, especially if he can mostly avoid repeating lore from the older tome (as I think he was able to do in EFR, though I haven't had a chance to compare with F&A yet. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Sonny
Acolyte
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 19:16:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Ed's home campaign hasn't even gotten to the Time of Troubles yet, let alone the 1400's. (Not that I mind the ToT, since I came to the Realms in 2e) So just from those references alone it's not "Ed's home Realms." It's something very nice, but it isn't what was promised.
Actually, my point was he could have added them to his home campaign regardless or origin or time. It's quite possible to add Cyric without needing to have the Times of Trouble, by just adding a new origin for the god. Many DMs already do this type of thing as they pilfer ideas and characters from various settings.
However, it sounds like there's also references to future events which would make my point/idea invalid, and this definitely isn't the book they said it would be. =/
Still, it's good to hear that the book is still worth getting and reading though. I wish they had stuck to their original plan though. |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 19:31:52
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Ah, I see. Yes, that's a valid point; he could have added Cyric if he wanted to.
And I agree completely with your two last points.  |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2012 : 20:03:46
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| It is still pure gold. There isn't one part of this book that is "bad"...though there are parts I may not use; it is still one of the most awesome books TSR/WotC ever printed for the Forgotten Realms hands down. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2012 : 01:45:20
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I don't know why people say this isn't information from Ed's Realms. If you pay attention, you will notice that many of the foods, plants, poisons and a few other things are stuff that we've seen posted here on Candlekeep in the Ask Ed section, where he has given us lore to questions we've asked. Quite a bit of it was incorporated into the book.
Some of the entries in the book are almost word for word of stuff THO has posted here from Ed...
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 00:58:01
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Reading back a bit looking for information related to the area of the Moonsea, I found this post by THO:
quote:
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
4378 Posts
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 17:51:05
Oh, a postscript: this would have been around 1358 or 1359 DR (the time of our visit to Loudwater). Torm visited the neighborhood again in 1361, and it hadn't changed much, to my (admittedly VERY fuzzy) recollection of what was said at the time between Ed and Victor (Torm's player).
love,
THO
It looks like Ed's home game has in fact had the ToT in it...and thus perhaps Cyric as well...
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 03:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Reading back a bit looking for information related to the area of the Moonsea, I found this post by THO:
quote:
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
4378 Posts
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 17:51:05
Oh, a postscript: this would have been around 1358 or 1359 DR (the time of our visit to Loudwater). Torm visited the neighborhood again in 1361, and it hadn't changed much, to my (admittedly VERY fuzzy) recollection of what was said at the time between Ed and Victor (Torm's player).
love,
THO
It looks like Ed's home game has in fact had the ToT in it...and thus perhaps Cyric as well...
Not necessarily... He could have followed his own timeline, and not bothered with it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 03:50:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Reading back a bit looking for information related to the area of the Moonsea, I found this post by THO:
quote:
The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
4378 Posts
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 17:51:05
Oh, a postscript: this would have been around 1358 or 1359 DR (the time of our visit to Loudwater). Torm visited the neighborhood again in 1361, and it hadn't changed much, to my (admittedly VERY fuzzy) recollection of what was said at the time between Ed and Victor (Torm's player).
love,
THO
It looks like Ed's home game has in fact had the ToT in it...and thus perhaps Cyric as well...
Not necessarily... He could have followed his own timeline, and not bothered with it.
That, or the adventurers in Ed's campaign happened upon some time portal that momentarily thrust them into a later year... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 03:51:43
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| True...I didn't consider that fact...however, Cyric was included in the most recent work...so I wish we could find out. Simply for being a snoop of course. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 05:55:13
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| It was my understanding that Ed's players voted not to play through the Time of Troubles. So their timeline continues, sans ToT. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 11:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It was my understanding that Ed's players voted not to play through the Time of Troubles. So their timeline continues, sans ToT.
I like that idea...but did you ever hear of any events which caused any of the "Dead Three" to be killed off in his game, Bane returning, or Midnight/Kelemvor/Cyric ascending? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 13:57:50
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Well, Sage, if you moved to the USA, you won't have to wait for stuff. Troy MO is a nice place, if a bit empty.
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 14:08:44
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I wished some additional info on Hoar/Assuran would have made to cut, as my current character is a Nemesis. Oh well, maybe in his next sourcebook.
Speaking of Hoar, I hope he will ditch Bane to go back to his more neutral roots in the next edition. LN just suits him so well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2012 : 15:29:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It was my understanding that Ed's players voted not to play through the Time of Troubles. So their timeline continues, sans ToT.
I like that idea...but did you ever hear of any events which caused any of the "Dead Three" to be killed off in his game, Bane returning, or Midnight/Kelemvor/Cyric ascending?
No... Why? We already know this book contains some info that is not strictly related to Ed's home Realms... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster’s Forgotten Realms
