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Well, now. “Swordsmen” you say, so I’m going to narrow my reply down to: male living (not dead or undead) humans.
I’m going to further qualify my reply by saying that among the most skilled masters of bladework, “best” becomes a matter of opinion regarding style, and the average observer can’t identify (let alone properly interpret) most subtle differences because they’re either dead too quickly, or too dazzled by things that happen too swiftly for them to see properly and too deftly for them to measure or grasp the implications of (matters of shifting a foe just a little off balance, or forcing a movement in stance or location, that will lead to a killing stroke three or four maneuvers later).
Moreover, “best” is a steadily shifting title, even when one sets aside divine and magical meddling, because (as with real-world tennis) youthful speed and acrobatic suppleness, plus freedom from injuries and the slowing and crippling effects of aging (on, say, the human knee), must always be balanced against the experience gained in duel after duel after battle: young swordsmen are always rising to the fore, but only step into the ranks of the “best” when those more expert through real-life practice grow too slow to defeat the most skilled younglings (or the younglings overcome their inexperience).
I’m also going to restrict myself purely to matters of bladework, in a one-on-one fight in surroundings that favour neither combatant. In other words, I’m minimizing “street smarts” or dirty fighting or the adventurers’ experience in exploiting traction, lighting, obstacles, distractions, and all of that: factors that seasoned adventurers (like Durnan of Waterdeep) can use to defeat foes who might be a shade faster or a whit better in pure bladework. This will work against Artemis Entreri, for example, but also against a host of other adventurers whom I won’t even mention in this reply, but who might otherwise show up in my answer.
(Personally, I’d rather not do any “best of” rankings, because I think they’re subjective, snapshots of moments in time that are dated even as they’re made, and a bit pointless. Even in pure-skill tournaments, upsets occur, and if a DM wants to create an unknown who’s better than the individuals mentioned here, go right ahead.)
However, I probably possess the best overview of the entire tapestry of the Realms of anyone (though not all that far ahead of, say, Messrs. Boyd and Krashos, closely followed by Schend, Hunter, and Grubb), and can speak from that strength - - not being limited, for instance, by published Realmslore.
So you’re really going to have to trust me here, when I say that the best bladesman in the Realms right now (1375 DR) is: Harmel Artru, a darkly handsome, agile, glib-tongued and lady-charming merchant seacaptain (and sometime pirate), who sails The Winsome Lady independent caravel out of Saerloon (and a secret base somewhere in the Pirate Isles).
Only a whisker-width behind Artru is Loaros Hammarandar, a broad-shouldered, grim giant of a man who can hurl his prodigious strength and bulk around like an acrobat, and is an ever-wary-of-treachery mercenary warmaster currently under hire by Narubel, who commands “the Swift Sword” cavalry force used to quell bandits and unrest in that city and its surrounding farms (and dedicates himself to quietly eliminating all threats to the current rulership, prosperity, and status quo in Narubel).
Close behind Artru and Hammarandar are Skoalam Marlgrask and then Sraece Telthorn.
Skoalam Marlgrask is a professional duelist who travels Chessenta as the champion of whomever sponsors him in duels, making huge sums (because everyone locally knows he’s “the best” in duels, and so tries to outbid opponents seeking to hire his services) that are usually paid in gems and used by Marlgrask to immediately buy property, notably an ever-expanding string of inns and taverns. Marlgrask is polite, saturnine, nondescript of looks but quietly luxurious of dress, and seems able to sense danger (crossbow snipers, for instance) before it can reach out for him. He’s known to be resistant to many natural poisons (having learned this the hard way), but now takes great care regarding what he eats and drinks (hence his purchase of many inns and taverns).
Sraece Telthorn is a smallish, agile, almost feminine man who can dance, tumble, balance, and spring with a skill and precision matched only by the greatest acrobats (once leaping off a parapet to land perfectly balanced on a sloping, protruding flagstaff far below, for instance, and often springing over the slashing swords of opponents). He teaches “swordplay” (fencing) in Yhaunn and Waterdeep, and is believed to travel between the two by means of secret portals of unknown origin and location. Telthorn lives simply, is unambitious (avoiding power and important patrons, and giving much of his coins away), and is beloved by many pleasure-lasses of Waterdeep, who regard him as a kind friend or honorary brother as well as a frequent client.
I’d put the infamous Artemis Entreri after Telthorn, though I could be persuaded to rank two other male human bladesmen between them: Ulmaer Rivrymm of Sheirtalar (a smiling, wax-mustached man of good nature but lightning-swift reflexes and keen sight, who is personal bodyguard to the Overking of Lapaliiya, and can juggle scimitars to entertain), and Aka ‘the Questmaster’ (the mysterious sponsor and trainer of adventurers) who dwells, these days, in the wilderlands of the Sword Coast North.
If I widen my reply to include human females, two must be inserted: Ember Tsartaera between Hammarandar and Marlgrask, and Lyaunthra Aldegal between Marlgrask and Telthorn.
Ember Tsartaera is the tall, cool of manner and sparing of words Knight of Arms (weaponsmaster, or trainer of bodyguards and soldiers) to Lord Albin, ruler of Furthinghome in Aglarond, where she dwells. Ember dresses plainly, lives in spartan surroundings, and is always under iron self-control, keeping to herself and crafting masterwork swords when she’s not practising using them or training others to do so; she never raises her voice (though she can be coldly, cuttingly firm), is always alert and anticipating trouble, and has an acrobatic fighting style; she’s famous in Furthinghome for catching hurled daggers and arrows in flight.
Lyaunthra Aldegal has recently settled in Waterdeep, though she still retains homes in her three previous bases: Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber. “The Lioness” is a superb maker of bladed weapons and tools (who learned her skills from her now-dead parents), who can resharpen and balance almost any fragment of a mistreated item. She owns and travels between small weapon shops in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber, and specializes in finding just the right weapon for a client, and in weapons-training and -practising with select clients. Known to have ironguard protection afforded by a wearable item (a choker or anklet, most believe), she’s also known to be able to withstand great pain, once (in the days before her ironguard protection) slaying a killer who’d put his blade through her hilt-deep, and then (despite being hit by both acid and fire magics) staggering through four rooms to get healing potions, managing to drink them and pluck forth his blade without passing out. Aldegal is a fire-haired, rugged-looking woman who takes numerous lovers, arrives and departs quietly and unexpectedly, and is seldom to be found where one expects to find her.
Quite a roster.
If I now widen my reply further, to include elves, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes (note that I’m still excluding shapechanging races and multi-armed intelligent “monsters”), I’d put Maethrammar Aerasume between Artru and Hammarandar, and Drizzt Do’Urden JUST behind Marlgrask.
However, ask me this a year from now (Realms time), and - - even if there haven’t been fatalities - - these rankings may have shifted around quite a bit. As I said, among individuals of this skill, determinations are whisker-thin.



So saith Ed. Whew. Warned you, didn’t I? What Ed and all of we original players share when reading or listening to debates about “bests” and most this or that of the Realms is that there’s so much as-yet-unpublished Realmslore about this everchanging world that Ed crafted and continues to detail and expand, right alongside other writers (so the argument that “well, we can’t go by Ed’s original, we can only discuss the published Realms, that’s diverged so much from his original” goes right out the window). I happen to agree with Ed that rating “best” bladesmen is a bit pointless because it’s so subjective, changes so fast, and has such little practical roleplaying value - - but I fully understand Feanor’s curiosity in wanting to know. It’s a longing to know and understand the Realms more fully that we all share.
And I hope we will always continue to do so!
love to all,
THO

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Originally posted by Imp

Why would I care about PCs?

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Originally posted by Entreri3478

No reason to get snippy when someone is asking a legitimate question about your thread.

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Because just canon characters makes people feel their doing your research?

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Originally posted by Diffan

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Originally posted by Imp

Why would I care about PCs?

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Because just canon characters makes people feel their doing your research? Research that, based on the concept of the thread, is ridicuously expansive. Additionally, you give little info except pre-spellplague and theres tons of info for 3E and 2E/AD&D that's available yet it also changes with edition.

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Originally posted by Imp

Bladewind was able to post something helpful. Follow his example or don't post.

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Originally posted by Imp

O.o If you don't want to help than don't? In no way, shape or form did I request anyone to make research for me. If someone knows such a character, he will post about him, if he doesn't know any, he doesn't have a reason to post. It's pretty simple.

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Originally posted by Imp

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Originally posted by Entreri3478

No reason to get snippy when someone is asking a legitimate question about your thread.

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No reason to post if you don't have anything relevant to say. Also you're imagining things. I didn't get snippy, I answered the question.

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Originally posted by Imp

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Because just canon characters makes people feel their doing your research?

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O.o If you don't want to help than don't? In no way, shape or form did I request anyone to make research for me. If someone knows such a character, he will post about him, if he doesn't know any, he doesn't have a reason to post. It's pretty simple.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

From an answer from Ed, january 2004:

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Well, now. “Swordsmen” you say, so I’m going to narrow my reply down to: male living (not dead or undead) humans.
I’m going to further qualify my reply by saying that among the most skilled masters of bladework, “best” becomes a matter of opinion regarding style, and the average observer can’t identify (let alone properly interpret) most subtle differences because they’re either dead too quickly, or too dazzled by things that happen too swiftly for them to see properly and too deftly for them to measure or grasp the implications of (matters of shifting a foe just a little off balance, or forcing a movement in stance or location, that will lead to a killing stroke three or four maneuvers later).
Moreover, “best” is a steadily shifting title, even when one sets aside divine and magical meddling, because (as with real-world tennis) youthful speed and acrobatic suppleness, plus freedom from injuries and the slowing and crippling effects of aging (on, say, the human knee), must always be balanced against the experience gained in duel after duel after battle: young swordsmen are always rising to the fore, but only step into the ranks of the “best” when those more expert through real-life practice grow too slow to defeat the most skilled younglings (or the younglings overcome their inexperience).
I’m also going to restrict myself purely to matters of bladework, in a one-on-one fight in surroundings that favour neither combatant. In other words, I’m minimizing “street smarts” or dirty fighting or the adventurers’ experience in exploiting traction, lighting, obstacles, distractions, and all of that: factors that seasoned adventurers (like Durnan of Waterdeep) can use to defeat foes who might be a shade faster or a whit better in pure bladework. This will work against Artemis Entreri, for example, but also against a host of other adventurers whom I won’t even mention in this reply, but who might otherwise show up in my answer.
(Personally, I’d rather not do any “best of” rankings, because I think they’re subjective, snapshots of moments in time that are dated even as they’re made, and a bit pointless. Even in pure-skill tournaments, upsets occur, and if a DM wants to create an unknown who’s better than the individuals mentioned here, go right ahead.)
However, I probably possess the best overview of the entire tapestry of the Realms of anyone (though not all that far ahead of, say, Messrs. Boyd and Krashos, closely followed by Schend, Hunter, and Grubb), and can speak from that strength - - not being limited, for instance, by published Realmslore.
So you’re really going to have to trust me here, when I say that the best bladesman in the Realms right now (1375 DR) is: Harmel Artru, a darkly handsome, agile, glib-tongued and lady-charming merchant seacaptain (and sometime pirate), who sails The Winsome Lady independent caravel out of Saerloon (and a secret base somewhere in the Pirate Isles).
Only a whisker-width behind Artru is Loaros Hammarandar, a broad-shouldered, grim giant of a man who can hurl his prodigious strength and bulk around like an acrobat, and is an ever-wary-of-treachery mercenary warmaster currently under hire by Narubel, who commands “the Swift Sword” cavalry force used to quell bandits and unrest in that city and its surrounding farms (and dedicates himself to quietly eliminating all threats to the current rulership, prosperity, and status quo in Narubel).
Close behind Artru and Hammarandar are Skoalam Marlgrask and then Sraece Telthorn.
Skoalam Marlgrask is a professional duelist who travels Chessenta as the champion of whomever sponsors him in duels, making huge sums (because everyone locally knows he’s “the best” in duels, and so tries to outbid opponents seeking to hire his services) that are usually paid in gems and used by Marlgrask to immediately buy property, notably an ever-expanding string of inns and taverns. Marlgrask is polite, saturnine, nondescript of looks but quietly luxurious of dress, and seems able to sense danger (crossbow snipers, for instance) before it can reach out for him. He’s known to be resistant to many natural poisons (having learned this the hard way), but now takes great care regarding what he eats and drinks (hence his purchase of many inns and taverns).
Sraece Telthorn is a smallish, agile, almost feminine man who can dance, tumble, balance, and spring with a skill and precision matched only by the greatest acrobats (once leaping off a parapet to land perfectly balanced on a sloping, protruding flagstaff far below, for instance, and often springing over the slashing swords of opponents). He teaches “swordplay” (fencing) in Yhaunn and Waterdeep, and is believed to travel between the two by means of secret portals of unknown origin and location. Telthorn lives simply, is unambitious (avoiding power and important patrons, and giving much of his coins away), and is beloved by many pleasure-lasses of Waterdeep, who regard him as a kind friend or honorary brother as well as a frequent client.
I’d put the infamous Artemis Entreri after Telthorn, though I could be persuaded to rank two other male human bladesmen between them: Ulmaer Rivrymm of Sheirtalar (a smiling, wax-mustached man of good nature but lightning-swift reflexes and keen sight, who is personal bodyguard to the Overking of Lapaliiya, and can juggle scimitars to entertain), and Aka ‘the Questmaster’ (the mysterious sponsor and trainer of adventurers) who dwells, these days, in the wilderlands of the Sword Coast North.
If I widen my reply to include human females, two must be inserted: Ember Tsartaera between Hammarandar and Marlgrask, and Lyaunthra Aldegal between Marlgrask and Telthorn.
Ember Tsartaera is the tall, cool of manner and sparing of words Knight of Arms (weaponsmaster, or trainer of bodyguards and soldiers) to Lord Albin, ruler of Furthinghome in Aglarond, where she dwells. Ember dresses plainly, lives in spartan surroundings, and is always under iron self-control, keeping to herself and crafting masterwork swords when she’s not practising using them or training others to do so; she never raises her voice (though she can be coldly, cuttingly firm), is always alert and anticipating trouble, and has an acrobatic fighting style; she’s famous in Furthinghome for catching hurled daggers and arrows in flight.
Lyaunthra Aldegal has recently settled in Waterdeep, though she still retains homes in her three previous bases: Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber. “The Lioness” is a superb maker of bladed weapons and tools (who learned her skills from her now-dead parents), who can resharpen and balance almost any fragment of a mistreated item. She owns and travels between small weapon shops in Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Neverwinter, and Secomber, and specializes in finding just the right weapon for a client, and in weapons-training and -practising with select clients. Known to have ironguard protection afforded by a wearable item (a choker or anklet, most believe), she’s also known to be able to withstand great pain, once (in the days before her ironguard protection) slaying a killer who’d put his blade through her hilt-deep, and then (despite being hit by both acid and fire magics) staggering through four rooms to get healing potions, managing to drink them and pluck forth his blade without passing out. Aldegal is a fire-haired, rugged-looking woman who takes numerous lovers, arrives and departs quietly and unexpectedly, and is seldom to be found where one expects to find her.
Quite a roster.
If I now widen my reply further, to include elves, half-elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes (note that I’m still excluding shapechanging races and multi-armed intelligent “monsters”), I’d put Maethrammar Aerasume between Artru and Hammarandar, and Drizzt Do’Urden JUST behind Marlgrask.
However, ask me this a year from now (Realms time), and - - even if there haven’t been fatalities - - these rankings may have shifted around quite a bit. As I said, among individuals of this skill, determinations are whisker-thin.



So saith Ed. Whew. Warned you, didn’t I? What Ed and all of we original players share when reading or listening to debates about “bests” and most this or that of the Realms is that there’s so much as-yet-unpublished Realmslore about this everchanging world that Ed crafted and continues to detail and expand, right alongside other writers (so the argument that “well, we can’t go by Ed’s original, we can only discuss the published Realms, that’s diverged so much from his original” goes right out the window). I happen to agree with Ed that rating “best” bladesmen is a bit pointless because it’s so subjective, changes so fast, and has such little practical roleplaying value - - but I fully understand Feanor’s curiosity in wanting to know. It’s a longing to know and understand the Realms more fully that we all share.
And I hope we will always continue to do so!
love to all,
THO

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Originally posted by Imp

Again, wow.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Sightless, this information came from Ed's thread in the Chamber of Sages sub-forum right here at C-Keep. You should put it on your 'must always read' list.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by Icelander

I'd love to know more about the prefered weapons, stylistic differences and philosophies of combat of the 'best' swordsmen Ed mentioned above.

For example, what's the difference between a fencer taught by Sraece Telthorn and one who learnt from whoever taught Harmel Artru?

Do they both favour swords of a similar weight, shape and point of balance? Or does one use a broad and fairly heavy (2 lbs.) hanger with a 28" blade and the other a gently curved, more slender saber with a 32" blade, weighing only 1.5 lbs.?* Or maybe one of them favours a two-handed longsword or a 42" long rapier?

In my campaign, the PCs are important merchant lords around the Sea of Fallen Stars, with a lot of contacts and employees. They like to keep up on news and rumours and have the resources to hear much of what is going on.

And one of them is a fencer trained in Sembia and Ravens Bluff, while the other is a bona fide Master of Defence who is accumulating an encyclopedic knowledge of the science of fighting and the different styles he can find around the Inner Sea.

My point being, the players and their PCs are interested in everyone reputed to be the 'best' at anything, and especially if it is martial arts.

Murlak Solstice is from Saerloon like Harmel Artru and appears to have a lot in common with him.** And he might want to learn more about swordplay from either him or Sraece Telthorn.

And Sir Michael is dedicated to being a master of all weapons and fighting styles, at least those he judges effective***. He'll be curious whether Skoalam Marlgrask is really better than him and if it proves so, he'll want to learn from him.

A query to Ed would take years to be answered, most likely.

Do any scribes know whether he's ever given more detail on them? At conventions or somewhere else in the So Saith Ed... files?

*I know this is probably mostly irrelevant in D&D terms and even in GURPS, which I use, the differences in mechanical terms are fairly small, but it has a major roleplaying and descriptive effect.
**Ship's captain, occasional pirate, secret lair in the Pirate Isles, fencer, rogue, ruthless, callous.
***He's content with learning how to counter those styles he judges less than effective.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

You know, I never thought much about it, but THAT would be a great article for someone to write.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

It would seem to me that in a given region, if there's certain really powerful heroic figures... the up and comers may naturally emulate their styles. While this base idea was done with Tome of Battle (although to my knowledge, I don't think the schools were explicitly placed in the realms, unless Eytan did it in an article), that was assuming somewhat fantastical schools of magic/melee combat.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

It would be interesting to note certain general consistencies for certain areas of the realms.

For instance, it might be simply noted that Rashemen's warriors favor two handed weapons, bastard swords, axes, and spears. It could be stated that they favor special abilities that favor natural strength. Their armor ranges might run the gamut.

Impiltur might favor weapon and shield styles, lance/mounted combat, but there could be a school where nobles train in light fencing weapons as well. Armor choice might favor the extremes of either heavy or light armor.

The Dalelands might favor various bow specializations and light weapons, with a particular fondness for the longsword. Armor choice favors light armors and light shields.

I feel I couldn't do justice to such a study myself, but I'd love to read it. It'd be great to see something like that where you might list out some "rare" feats that are fairly common in an area (for instance, I'd imagine all regions might be able to teach combat reflexes, dodge, combat expertise, weapon focus, etc...., but whirlwind attack trainers might be harder to find)

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Originally posted by Bladewind

D&D longswords are not exclusively onehanded swords though, they are accomodated to be used for twohanded strikes that channel much more cutting power; it's not a light onehanded weapon or smallsword. Your right that the D&D greatsword could be called a longsword (and many more swordnames) if a historical category needed to be given.

Halfswording techniques with longswords (having a hand free for options such as grapling and using leverage to trip with the aid of the crossguards) not only eventually led to the developement of D&D's bastard swords but to regional adjustments on greatswords (bigger crossguards, shorter cutting edges for using a greatsword as leverage during advanced grappling techniques) as well.

I would think the arming sword and the viking sword or spatha a good example of an 'old school' longsword not accomodated for halfswording, while a good example of proper bastard sword is this one, a swedish one and half sword with very robust sizes for the grip and crossguard.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

I saw you posted a followup question realting to all this in Ed's ask for realmslore thread, so I await his insight into the shifts in the use and preferance of blades along Faerun.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

5. male human, Skoalam Marlgrask, Chessenta.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

8. male human, Sraece Telthorn, Yhaunn, Sembia AND Waterdeep.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

Methrammar Aerasumé, of the Shining Guard [LG hem F14/W12] and commander of Luruar's armies [The North "Cities" pg. 55], is noted as being the most recognized son of Alustriel.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

Considering the use of practical swordsmanship is essential in surviving many an adventure, some PC might actually be the best swordsman walking around on Toril. A fearunian adventurer blade is tested to cut through links in magical chainmail, weak spots in chitinous carapaces, tendons in 'near steel'-like muscles, rockhard skin, joints of interlocking platemail, strong exoskeletons and numerous other defences encountered amongst his foes. I think most adventurers would visit bladeschools that teach some form of power attack, emphasizing techniques to maximize wound trauma.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

Thay and Chessenta have arena combat, wich would mean their gladiator schools have a history of at least a couple thousand years. They don't produce the best warriors though, but some of the flashy showmanship of a Thayan gladiator can hide deadly cutting and thrusting techniques that could be devastating if they can be executed with proper focus and timing.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

Duels are a social phenomenon that could be quite prominent in Faerun, with all the young and daring nobles running around. I don't recall any tomes that detail its intricasies though, such as the most used common duelling weapon of each family. But these can be filled in by any DM however they want.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

If i had to guess I think the sabre would be the weapon of choice amongst most Sembian nobilty and merchant houses. The Swordcoast is known that way because its people favor the bigger blades, so I guess many a two handed greatsword school is found along its shores. The melting pot of Waterdhavian nobility likely lean towards exotic longsword schools and fencing with rapiers, while Baldurs Gate nobilty favor claymores, Luskan captains mainly handle cutlasses and Neverwinter nobilty duel with longswords primarily.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

I have a feeling the southern lands are more filled with scimitars, bastard swords and their ilk. Tethyr, Cormyr and the Western Hearthlands seems to be the perfect place for the bastard swords 'home region'. Scimitars are likely favored by the cavalry oriented humans, i.e. Tuigans, Shaarans and Dambrathi. Aglarond would be heavily influenced by elvish fighting styles, so longswords and rapiers abound.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

I really like you mentioned the mystical element of swordplay at the high to epic levels. Certain feats and prowess seem to be able to require magic, but do they really?

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Originally posted by Bladewind

A good example is Skoalams ability to 'sense danger' wich hints at the supernatural (mechanicly it could work as uncanny dodge or for a high power campaign even prescience).

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Originally posted by Bladewind

To clarify my thoughts on sword use amongst nobility in the Swordcoast, I meant for the Waterdhavian nobilty to favor the a great variety of swords, but focussed mainly on one handed smallswords (historically speaking). And the Neverwinter nobilty to favor twohanded techniques with longswords accomodated for it ('near bastardswords' in D&D terms).

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Originally posted by Bladewind

There are stats for slashing lightweight Sabers in the equipment section of the FRCS.

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Originally posted by Bladewind

I wonder how both an unarmoured as an armed and armored duel between a Zakharan swordmaster (scimitar or scimitar, shield and lammelar armor) against a twohanded Swordsmaster of the Swordcoast (greatsword or full articulated plate and greatsword) would go.

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Originally posted by Imp

I need info on the great warriors in the Realms. By warriors I mean characters that don't cast spells (or at least don't cast much). By great I mean high level, at least in teens.
Please write down the warriors:
- name
- race
- class and level
- location
- a short description on who he is
I care only about people pre-Sellplague.

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