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Dinnin
Seeker
Australia
53 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Aug 2012 : 01:56:38
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Hey Guys
ive read the neverwinter series so far, and just wondering what books are out to read more about thay and Szas Tam.
thanks
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"Use yer heads! A barnyard goose tastes better 'an a wild one cause it don't use its muscles. The same oughta hold true for a giant's brains!"
Bruenor Battlehammer |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2012 : 02:52:30
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The Haunted Lands trilogy by Richard Lee Byers: Unclean, Undead, and Unholy. On this list, this series is where Szass Tam has the most novel time.
Red Magic by Jean Rabe. There's not much focus on Szass Tam here, but rather on Maligor, the then Zulkir of Transmutation.
Red Ambition by Jean Rabe, a short story in the anthology Realms of Magic. This is about Szass Tam and his apprentice, Frodyne, and the clerics of the then goddess of lies.
The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey. Szass Tam hardly made an appearance here. However, there's some focus on Lauzoril, the Zulkir of Enchantment and on Mythrellan, the Zulkir of Illusion. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 01 Aug 2012 03:01:07 |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2012 : 03:39:42
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| I believe he also makes an appearance in Crimson Gold by Veronica Whitney-Robinson. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 16:36:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
The Haunted Lands trilogy by Richard Lee Byers: Unclean, Undead, and Unholy. On this list, this series is where Szass Tam has the most novel time.
Red Magic by Jean Rabe. There's not much focus on Szass Tam here, but rather on Maligor, the then Zulkir of Transmutation.
Red Ambition by Jean Rabe, a short story in the anthology Realms of Magic. This is about Szass Tam and his apprentice, Frodyne, and the clerics of the then goddess of lies.
The Simbul's Gift by Lynn Abbey. Szass Tam hardly made an appearance here. However, there's some focus on Lauzoril, the Zulkir of Enchantment and on Mythrellan, the Zulkir of Illusion.
I still love seeing the "zulkir of Alteration" |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 18:20:00
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As do I. Maligor was a typical Red Wizard. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 18:32:10
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| Maligor and his horde of sheep-monsters... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 19:08:45
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| Maligor was great! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 00:55:00
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quote:
Dalor Darden
Maligor and his horde of sheep-monsters...
Hmphf. I'd always thought they were chicken-monsters. In the AD&D1E era a single gold piece would buy you 200 chickens but only 5 sheep. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:13:43
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I've always wanted to play a Red Wizard...badly.
The only thing that has kept me from doing it is the fact that I've yet to find a DM who wanted to LET me do it.
Not even a Lawful Neutral Red Wizard.
My actual inspiration was in fact Maligor...I thought he got punked for the sake of the novel. 
My second favorite Red Wizard is actually not a Zulkir...but a Zulkir AND Tharchion! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:44:41
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Dmitra Flass?
Anyway, both of you are wrong. Maligor's pets are not chickens nor sheep. They're rat-monsters. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Dmitra Flass?
Anyway, both of you are wrong. Maligor's pets are not chickens nor sheep. They're rat-monsters.
I'm talking about what the Darkenbeasts are made of: sheep. As far as I remember from the novel...
Aznar Thrul is the fella I'm talking about...I pay absolutely NO attention to him being assassinated...that is a punk way that such a man would NOT go down. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 07 Nov 2012 01:48:33 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 02:05:56
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| Aznar Thrul's death was so poorly written and ridiculous. The Zulkir of Invocation has no contingency spells on him AT ALL? Yeah. Stupid writing, thanks for the contrivance. Sums up the utter stupidity of the being ushered in fourth edition Realms pretty well in my book. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 02:11:52
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You're mistaken, actually. The first animal he turned into darkenbeasts was a hedgehog. Then, he transmuted almost any animals he could find. Here are some relevant lines from Red Magic:
quote:
The hedgehog's sides heaved, billowing outward like a puffer fish as the creature doubled its size, then doubled again. Its spines fused into its rapidly stretching skin, which flowed over its enlarging form and transformed into a mud-brown, leathery hide. Its short legs, scrambling in a vain attempt to gain purchase on the ground, elongated and spread away from its torso. At the same time, a thin membrane of flesh formed, attaching itself to the legs on each side of the shrieking beast's body and becoming webbed wings that flapped uncontrollably against the earth. The bones in the creature's head cracked and popped as they lengthened; the jaw became birdlike and filled with twin rows of sharp, jagged teeth. At the opposite end, a prehensile barbed tail sprouted and quivered.
No semblance of the hedgehog remained; there was only the darkenbeast, a sorcerous nightmare, a hideous cross between an eagle and a prehistoric lizard.
quote:
Maligor intended to create several score of these creatures to add to his monstrous army. The darkenbeasts, which could be made from most animals, even those the size of field mice, were fearsome creatures that obeyed his telepathic commands. However, they were not indestructible; they reverted to their true forms in daylight—or upon their death.
quote:
It had taken the Red Wizard months to accumulate this force, working through the night turning bats, lizards, snakes, rats, and other animals into the evil darkenbeasts. The intense magic had exhausted him, leaving him feeling his advanced years. But the incantations had kept his mind sharp for his plans for power.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 02:19:33
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Thanks Dennis...
After looking at the game mechanics end of the spell, I remember why I thought it was sheep.
quote:
The darkenbeast is a magical creation with a limited existence. A mage casts the darkenbeast spell on one or more normal animals, usually domestic or local animals, such as sheep and dogs. Only animals of 2 Hit Dice or less are affected.
thanks for the clarification. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 03:15:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Aznar Thrul's death was so poorly written and ridiculous. The Zulkir of Invocation has no contingency spells on him AT ALL? Yeah. Stupid writing, thanks for the contrivance. Sums up the utter stupidity of the being ushered in fourth edition Realms pretty well in my book.
I think you mean Evocation.
As someone pointed out to me not long ago....
A contingency spell requires a figurine. One that almost certainly was in his robe which he took off.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 03:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Aznar Thrul's death was so poorly written and ridiculous. The Zulkir of Invocation has no contingency spells on him AT ALL? Yeah. Stupid writing, thanks for the contrivance. Sums up the utter stupidity of the being ushered in fourth edition Realms pretty well in my book.
I think you mean Evocation.
As someone pointed out to me not long ago....
A contingency spell requires a figurine. One that almost certainly was in his robe which he took off.
There are many spells other than "Contingency" which are contingency magics. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 04:31:42
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Why do so many people complain about Aznar's murder and not about Mythrellan's? She didn't even manage to die "properly," just mentioned in passing. Poor lass.
Seriously, though, let's just take Richard's word for it: some of them might have survived, Aznar included. In D&D, there's no such thing as utterly dead. [And no author can please everyone.] |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1297 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 04:50:47
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| No author can please everyone true. But that author ruined Thay for me completely. Just another nail in the coffin created by the 4th edition and the incredibly stupid WoTC designers in charge at the time... |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 05:50:48
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Worry not, because eventually, Thay will be restored to its former glory. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 19:47:23
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quote:
Originally posted by jornan
I believe he also makes an appearance in Crimson Gold by Veronica Whitney-Robinson.
did anyone else thhink he came across as a half decent lich in that one.
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go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
Aznar Thrul's death was so poorly written and ridiculous. The Zulkir of Invocation has no contingency spells on him AT ALL? Yeah. Stupid writing, thanks for the contrivance. Sums up the utter stupidity of the being ushered in fourth edition Realms pretty well in my book.
I think you mean Evocation.
As someone pointed out to me not long ago....
A contingency spell requires a figurine. One that almost certainly was in his robe which he took off.
There are many spells other than "Contingency" which are contingency magics.
Could you list them off for me with links so I can read them?
I know contingency is not the only contingent spell. but almost all contingent magics I have seen require not only a precise spell trigger, but a focus you must have on your person.
Even Elminster's evasion, which can have 6 different triggers needs a spell focus item. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
No author can please everyone true. But that author ruined Thay for me completely. Just another nail in the coffin created by the 4th edition and the incredibly stupid WoTC designers in charge at the time...
Personally, I loved that series and the author's works not only on that series, but in his other series as well.
I have heard a few people complain about a detail here and there that bothered them and because of it changing Thay from its stale 20 year atmosphere(IMO, it had to change, it has been the same for so long), but you are the first person I have read that absolutely hated it and think the author ruined Thay for you. Those changes were coming whether that Author wrote it, or someone else. We were fortunate to have such a great Author write the event IMO.
And given the sales of that series, as well as his other series, you are definitely in the vast minority |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 21:28:10
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Various Contingency Magics:
2e
Mantle (page 93, Secrets of the Magister)
Irithra's Spelltouch (page 103, SotM)
Spell Trigger (page 106, SotM)
Greater Spell Trigger (page 108, SotM)
Mordenkainen's Faithful Phantom Guardian (page 58, Greyhawk Adventures) DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
Rary's Mind Shield (page 67, GreyAdv)
Rary's Urgent Utterance (page 68, GreyAdv)
Rary's Protection from Scrying (page 68, GreyAdv)
Tenser's Fortunes of War (page 71, GreyAdv)
That is just from two books I happened to have on my desk...if you honestly want more, I can provide perhaps hundreds if time permits.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 06:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Various Contingency Magics:
2e
Mantle (page 93, Secrets of the Magister)
Irithra's Spelltouch (page 103, SotM)
Spell Trigger (page 106, SotM)
Greater Spell Trigger (page 108, SotM)
Mordenkainen's Faithful Phantom Guardian (page 58, Greyhawk Adventures) DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
Rary's Mind Shield (page 67, GreyAdv)
Rary's Urgent Utterance (page 68, GreyAdv)
Rary's Protection from Scrying (page 68, GreyAdv)
Tenser's Fortunes of War (page 71, GreyAdv)
That is just from two books I happened to have on my desk...if you honestly want more, I can provide perhaps hundreds if time permits.
Forgotten realms only please. greyhawk specific spells will have little bearing on FR.
I have a copy of secrets of the magister so ill have to look at those tomorrow when I dig it out to remember. I cannot find anything on those spells from the official all encompassing Dnd tools compendium. Are they 3.5 or higher? or were they phased out?
Also, I want only contingent spells that could have specifically saved Aznar Thrul's life in this specific situation where he had lost his robe and was literally naked with no spell components running down the hall, and only with magics current rules(3.5-4th edition specific) |
Edited by - Firestorm on 08 Nov 2012 06:21:04 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 06:25:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Various Contingency Magics:
2e
Mantle (page 93, Secrets of the Magister)
Irithra's Spelltouch (page 103, SotM)
Spell Trigger (page 106, SotM)
Greater Spell Trigger (page 108, SotM)
Mordenkainen's Faithful Phantom Guardian (page 58, Greyhawk Adventures) DON'T LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT!
Rary's Mind Shield (page 67, GreyAdv)
Rary's Urgent Utterance (page 68, GreyAdv)
Rary's Protection from Scrying (page 68, GreyAdv)
Tenser's Fortunes of War (page 71, GreyAdv)
That is just from two books I happened to have on my desk...if you honestly want more, I can provide perhaps hundreds if time permits.
There's a reason why in 3rd edition these spells don't exist and the "craft contingent spell" feat was created. Remember, the story was written under 3.5 rules. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 11:00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Forgotten realms only please. greyhawk specific spells will have little bearing on FR.
Not necessarily true. You could have FR-developed versions of the same spells.
Besides, there has been contact between the settings. Khelben specifically crafted his warding whip as a counter to the Bigby's Hand spells, for example. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 13:37:08
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I think I've seen Bigby's Hand spells being used in Forgotten Realms novels. Didn't Harkle Harpell use the spell when competing with Robillard in one of the Drizzt novels?
EDIT: Now that I've looked Bigby up, I had no idea so many spells came from Greyhawk characters. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 08 Nov 2012 13:40:25 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 14:09:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Forgotten realms only please. greyhawk specific spells will have little bearing on FR.
Not necessarily true. You could have FR-developed versions of the same spells.
Besides, there has been contact between the settings. Khelben specifically crafted his warding whip as a counter to the Bigby's Hand spells, for example.
True true. I remember a few tenser spells and Mordenkainen spells as well.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 15:22:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
I think I've seen Bigby's Hand spells being used in Forgotten Realms novels. Didn't Harkle Harpell use the spell when competing with Robillard in one of the Drizzt novels?
EDIT: Now that I've looked Bigby up, I had no idea so many spells came from Greyhawk characters.
Indeed. Most of the 2E core spells that were named for individuals, those individuals are Greyhawk characters. Mordenkainen, Bigby, Tenser, Rary, Melf... Most "named" spells in FR sources came from Realms characters.
In 2E, there used to be contact between the settings, so spells from one setting could easily appear elsewhere. There's a Khelben Arunsun in Greyhawk, too -- he's the grandson of the Khelben in Waterdeep, who switched identities with him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 17:16:34
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| I was also unaware of this until I read this scroll as am not a fan of the Grewhawk setting. But its always good to learn more about the realms so thanks for this little tidbit. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 18:28:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
No author can please everyone true. But that author ruined Thay for me completely. Just another nail in the coffin created by the 4th edition and the incredibly stupid WoTC designers in charge at the time...
Personally, I loved that series and the author's works not only on that series, but in his other series as well.
I have heard a few people complain about a detail here and there that bothered them and because of it changing Thay from its stale 20 year atmosphere(IMO, it had to change, it has been the same for so long), but you are the first person I have read that absolutely hated it and think the author ruined Thay for you. Those changes were coming whether that Author wrote it, or someone else. We were fortunate to have such a great Author write the event IMO.
And given the sales of that series, as well as his other series, you are definitely in the vast minority
Here in CK, he's not the only one, actually.
As for me, I love the series, and almost everything Richard penned. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thay and Szas
