| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 16:48:28
|
It seems to me the human race in the realms are very prolific and widespread in the current age. Why don't the other demi-humans feel threatened by this? Did the races of Hin, Tell'Quessir, Dwarves and Gnomes all accept that they play a lesser role in the future because the humans have allready secured the major resources Fearun and passive trade with them is preferred?
The elves are the most openly vocal about their concerns about human dominance. But what about the other demi-human races, do they have movements like the Eldreth Veluuthra as well? Have there been any great wars between the races in the (near) past that still give whole regions of people terrible memories of atrocities done on either side?
There are several historic places, like Myth Drannor, where the demihumans thrived because of co-operation, but most of those are mearly footnotes in history because of some tragedy wiped them out and the sociological experiment of co-operation tragicly failed. Are there any major cities of a coalition of demihuman races that I'm missing? Most of the modern "cosmopolitian" cities harbor only a mere fraction of demihuman populations. Doesn't that only give proof that an alliance of demihumans only survives because the humans decide not to take full control?
If humans on Fearun are anything as warlike as earth the demihumans would better prepare for extinction...
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
Kentinal
Great Reader
4696 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 17:32:32
|
First answer is that indeed there are clearly some concerns that have arisen over the ages.
The other answer could very well be humans have mixed blood with many huniniods, as such earning some acceptance as kin.
Oh there certainly can be more answers as well. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 17:54:41
|
| I think part of it is that dwarves and gnomes tend to be more insular, and don't worry about humans as much, whereas halflings either keep to themselves or make a point of integrating with human society. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 17:59:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Doesn't that only give proof that an alliance of demihumans only survives because the humans decide not to take full control?
Decided? That would imply global race thinking on a level where all humans decided to not eradicate other races. I don't think that could ever happen under one particular ruler or tyrant that decided to make humanity the supreme species of the world. Far too many opposing groups and races would fight back against such despotism, and then you'd be talking world war.
In my games, humanity has a bond, a kinship of a sort with all the rest of the good-aligned races of Toril, for each species mutually assured survival. Evil organizations, nations, tyrants, monsters, and deities abound in the FR. Without some form of kinship tying all the good-aligned races together, evil would have crushed the vast majority of the good peoples of Toril long ago. That's one global objective that evil fights for, but even they are too scattered, too divisive to ever organize enough to launch a worldwide threat. It's pocket chaos and petty evil that pervades my Realms.
That said, I could see a "Sauron-like" entity attempting some global domination plan and attempting to unite all evil under it, but in the end, I think whatever this great evil might be, it's going to have as hard of a fight against the other evils in the world as much as it will against the good, and perhaps that's why it probably never would unfold. *shrug* |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
|
|
|
Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 18:16:33
|
| Also humans are not one united species .Indeed there are many factions that vie for power and hate each other more than any particular race of demi human. So any sort of global war of extermination would probably never take off because of the infighting amongst the human race. |
|
|
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6405 Posts |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2012 : 20:02:02
|
It's interesting to look at what points in history the demihumans must have decided for themselves to work against growing human settlements, albeit through subterfuge or the refusal of aid at a critical moment. It's obvious humans are have some (ancient) depts to pay. Without the early aid of elves and dwarves, the human race would still be in bondage to dragon overlords.
It's understandable that the current generation of humans have no interest in or no knowledge of these ancient depts, and that in their view it's only natural that they have control of the most coveted tracks of land. It's true, a select few will come altuisticly come to the defence of other races, but my guess is the majority of the commoner humans would think twice afore they'd march to the defence in a campaign to aid for example a dwarven mine/stronghold.
Most trade across fearun is done by humans as well... Or am I wrong here? Is certain trade still firmly in hand of a certain demihuman race, and the monopoly they enjoy a major factor why other races keep them friendly? I can see this as the case for dwarven clans or conglomerates of them; each clan holding a certain "recognizable quality good" above other races' heads to encourage co-operation. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 03:24:12
|
I think there has always been a somewhat misinterpreted player-to-fictional-race relationship to consider as well.
It's largely been my impression that some designers, in the past, have assumed that dwarves and gnomes are harder for us to relate to than elves -- maybe harder to aspire to. So it's simply easier for the lore to portray dwarves and gnomes as insular races that have very little to do with either the outside world, or even other races for that matter.
Which could help to explain why we've seen so many new elven characters and stories over the last twelve years, and very few dwarf-related tales. [A shame, for sure, as I've long championed the case for quality new dwarven and gnomish fiction in the Realms.]
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Tren of Twilight Tower
Seeker
51 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 05:41:18
|
I am not sure how to take the OP. The possibilities that I see are:
a) OP is intended for writers and lore-moderators within the WOTC,
b) OP displays disagreement with the way the subject is handled by the lore-moderators, and
c) OP is rhetoric question.
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 11:01:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tren of Twilight Tower
I am not sure how to take the OP. The possibilities that I see are:
a) OP is intended for writers and lore-moderators within the WOTC,
b) OP displays disagreement with the way the subject is handled by the lore-moderators, and
c) OP is rhetoric question.
Or it could be that it doesn't make sense for him and he seeks understanding. Sometimes you just need someone to present info in the right way to make it all clear. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 13:50:53
|
Aye, Woolie has the right of it. I try to understand how the situation of demihuman co-operation has emerged, evolved and how that co-operation might change in the future of the setting (albeit my own home campaigns or the official canon).
It's true, I might sound a bit critical towards the amiable relations between the races, but that's because the current lore I am aware of that goes into demihuman alliances is both so sparse and positive. I highly doubt the psychologies of elves, dwarves, gnomes and hin are so easy to relate to by humans, and seek conformation for this in the lore. I like to know how far I can go with this without it loosing Realmsian flavour.
I'd love to know more about the failures, the betrayals, the wars and the genocides between demi-humans! Perhaps some DM's have stories of such, wanting to add some nuance or spice to a FR campaign, or perhaps I have not been looking at the right timelines and several juicy demi-human tragedies have evaded my notice.
I am with the Sage, there's to few info about dwarves out there (I'll give that I don't own Dwarves Deep). Curiously in the lore I now they always seem to have to fight orc and goblin invasions by themselves... Another clue they don't like to work together with other races? Likewise, Gnomes have been enslaved by humans in the past. This might have led to the dwarven and gnome minds preferring isolation and selfreliance. They might still tell stories (or some even might have experiences human atrocities first hand) about how powerful magic humans are not to be trusted. Eventually those chauvinistic views could lead to organisations like the Eldreth Veluuthra emerging but in dwarven and gnomish form.
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2012 : 15:22:51
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I am with the Sage, there's to few info about dwarves out there (I'll give that I don't own Dwarves Deep).
You should keep an eye or three on sites like nobleknight.com. I see second-hand copies -- often in near-mint condition -- popping up there from time to time.
quote:
Likewise, Gnomes have been enslaved by humans in the past. This might have led to the dwarven and gnome minds preferring isolation and selfreliance.
There's some truth to this.
Basically, at least for the dwarves, their home terrain often acts like as much of a barrier as any particular notion of racial insularity they may employ. Locked up in their mountain citadels and buried deep beneath the earth in vast underground cities, are places somewhat difficult for most general human folk of the Realms to visit regularly. And, as a result, this has taught the dwarves to rely, largely, upon themselves -- rather than chance negotiating with other races which might not be able to traverse the terrain and breach the natural barriers that protect the dwarven holds. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Why do demi-humans in the Realms get along?
