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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 18:22:54
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Oh FFS it's just a game. No one's forcing you to use it (if you even do use 4E material) and if you do, no one is forcing you to apply it to your games. No wonder a lot of people shy away from the Realms, because everythign has to be so GD melodramatic.
I'm out. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 18:26:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
When it comes to new game designers, I’m just as tempted as any other longtime fan to review with a critical eye anything written by a game designer whose name I don’t readily know.
It’s easy to look at anything new-to-the-Realms that new designers write and conclude “Oh this guy just doesn’t get it/Ed would have done it better/this is new stuff by a new guy so it must be wrong.”
The problem with this is it clouds your judgment before you even have a chance to decide if you like what you just read.
When we as fans automatically separate out new designers from old, we get away from the fact that one of the Realms’ greatest strengths is having multiple creative hands in the pot.
Instead of pigeonholing new game designers as interested in only looking for by-lines, I think it’s better to remember most of the older, seasoned game designers were once new guys; they probably wanted their by-lines too and they had corporate bosses every bit as interested in making a profit as game designers have to deal with nowadays, but they still managed to do great work because they were passionate about the Realms.
I think the trick to doing that great work lay in mixing experienced freelance designers who “get” the Realms with in-house designers who have new ideas *and* are passionate about the Realms.
Ed should be a part of this team, of course, but the vision should be a shared one and not something emanating from one person.
If they do that for 5E, I think the Realms will be on the right track.
RE: the Halaster character theme: this theme disappointed me because it seemed to reduce Halaster’s fate to a footnote for the sake of character creation.
The concept of multiple clones and minds riding other minds can be found all throughout Ed’s novels, so it’s not un-Realmsian, but I think the Halaster concept could have been cleaned up to make it a lot less clunky/convoluted in terms of its backstory.
I think you do us a disservice by saying we're dismissing the efforts of unknown designers out of hand. I think it safe to say that most people here will look at designers the same way I do: see what they produce for the Realms, and then decide how they regard that person's work.
There are designers whose work I don't like, and it's based solely on what they've done for or to the Realms. And at least one (I'm not naming names) has been around since 2E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 18:41:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Jeremy, you are always ready to support designers, new or old, from any edition.
I think that’s as close as I will ever get to a compliment from you.
Thank you.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 18:52:59
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*casts Otto’s Irresistible Dance*
Hey, lets remember that this scroll is a celebration of a victory won by the fans of the Realms. And while I value (and even agree with some of) the opinions being voiced, please take it elsewhere. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 19:21:45
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What in the sam-hell happened here? 
Ed at the Helm...even if he isn't the sole member of the ships crew, damnation he is at least there!
Buncha damnable  s around here some days!
Lock the damn thing down so it isn't watered to hateful oblivion!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 20:34:45
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| Celebration is good, but it also seems to me that what it will mean if 'the Realms [having] veered away from Ed's original vision' is corrected and he's moved back to the rudder (not just part of the team as he's generally been), what the effect will be and how we'll tell the difference, is directly on point for this thread. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 20:36:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
*casts Otto’s Irresistible Dance*
Hey, lets remember that this scroll is a celebration of a victory won by the fans of the Realms. And while I value (and even agree with some of) the opinions being voiced, please take it elsewhere.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 22:46:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
*casts Otto’s Irresistible Dance*
Hey, lets remember that this scroll is a celebration of a victory won by the fans of the Realms. And while I value (and even agree with some of) the opinions being voiced, please take it elsewhere.
So you want people to shut up, basically?
Calling this a victory is premature at best. We have no idea how this will play out. It might be referring only to the upcoming pub in October, and maybe nothing else. Until we get some confirmation and their intent is better described, we don't really know anything.
Frankly, I'm tired of promises and teasing. Give me something concrete.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 23:28:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
*casts Otto’s Irresistible Dance*
Hey, lets remember that this scroll is a celebration of a victory won by the fans of the Realms. And while I value (and even agree with some of) the opinions being voiced, please take it elsewhere.
So you want people to shut up, basically?
Calling this a victory is premature at best. We have no idea how this will play out. It might be referring only to the upcoming pub in October, and maybe nothing else. Until we get some confirmation and their intent is better described, we don't really know anything.
Frankly, I'm tired of promises and teasing. Give me something concrete.
Hell...you don't see a book of Realmslore by Ed Greenwood as a victory? Even if he doesn't get another shot for another long period of time, THIS is a victory. It is something folks have been asking for FOR YEARS.
Nobody said a war had been won...victory is gained one battle at a time...one victory at a time. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 23:36:25
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| I think Ed being this involved in the Realms is a good thing. Even though we don't know the full capacity, his book coming out should at least make a lot of people happy. Whether or not it has any "official" elements, such as reversing anything, or if it's just his own version he's sharing with us I hope it gives people direction and idea for their own campaign. Doubt I'll buy it as I'm happy with the way things are but I'm happy for others none the less. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 23:41:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Doubt I'll buy it as I'm happy with the way things are but I'm happy for others none the less.
BLASPHEMER!
Seriously...you wouldn't want to have this book?
I'm going to marry this book. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2012 : 23:48:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Doubt I'll buy it as I'm happy with the way things are but I'm happy for others none the less.
BLASPHEMER!
Seriously...you wouldn't want to have this book?
I'm going to marry this book.
I think Ed is a Fantastic setting designer and we wouldn't have the wonderful setting we do today without him. But, as preposterous as this sounds, I'm pretty fine with all the RSEs that have taken place in the last 20 years. I was ok with the Time of Troubles, the Return of Bane, the Return of the Archwizards, the reclimation of Myth Drannor, and even the Spellplague. Those are parts of the Realms that I just feel are a part of it's rich history and unique background.
If Ed's book talks about this stuff and the book has a lot of material I can use in my 3E and 4E Realms games, I can see myself buying it. But if it's a divergent book that shows a "what-if?" sort of scenario, i'll just pass. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:07:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think Ed is a Fantastic setting designer and we wouldn't have the wonderful setting we do today without him. But, as preposterous as this sounds, I'm pretty fine with all the RSEs that have taken place in the last 20 years. I was ok with the Time of Troubles, the Return of Bane, the Return of the Archwizards, the reclimation of Myth Drannor, and even the Spellplague. Those are parts of the Realms that I just feel are a part of it's rich history and unique background.
If Ed's book talks about this stuff and the book has a lot of material I can use in my 3E and 4E Realms games, I can see myself buying it. But if it's a divergent book that shows a "what-if?" sort of scenario, i'll just pass.
You don't read comics?
Alternate Universes are all the buzz ya know.  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:10:51
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quote:
Hell...you don't see a book of Realmslore by Ed Greenwood as a victory? Even if he doesn't get another shot for another long period of time, THIS is a victory. It is something folks have been asking for FOR YEARS.
I don't know what it will be. You don't know either.
It could be a book of general lore you can add to any edition. It could be Ed's Realms, an alternate world. It could be an update of old 2e material.
After all the hype, promises, teasers, and all that, I want to see it before I buy anything, Ed being involved or not. The 4e fiasco killed my trust.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4454 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:34:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think Ed is a Fantastic setting designer and we wouldn't have the wonderful setting we do today without him. But, as preposterous as this sounds, I'm pretty fine with all the RSEs that have taken place in the last 20 years. I was ok with the Time of Troubles, the Return of Bane, the Return of the Archwizards, the reclimation of Myth Drannor, and even the Spellplague. Those are parts of the Realms that I just feel are a part of it's rich history and unique background.
If Ed's book talks about this stuff and the book has a lot of material I can use in my 3E and 4E Realms games, I can see myself buying it. But if it's a divergent book that shows a "what-if?" sort of scenario, i'll just pass.
You don't read comics?
Alternate Universes are all the buzz ya know.
Not so much, for those very same reasons. Though I am contemplating on picking up the Walking Dead series, as grotesque as that one is. I've been following the show since it began and I'm a pretty big "Zombie" buff, so it make sense. Marvel and DC......yea I'll pass. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 00:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
You don't read comics?
Alternate Universes are all the buzz ya know.
Not so much, for those very same reasons. Though I am contemplating on picking up the Walking Dead series, as grotesque as that one is. I've been following the show since it began and I'm a pretty big "Zombie" buff, so it make sense. Marvel and DC......yea I'll pass.
I only had a little sarcasm in there.
I used to be a HUGE fan of Thor, Wolverine and such...but they actually started losing me when the Beyonder came along and after that things got a little too complicated.
As for Ed's book...hope you find it useful! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:06:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
"...in some ways the Realms has veered away from Ed's original vision."
-And they realized that just now? Oh well, better late than never.
That's not really fair, Dennis . They are acknowledging the issue and are taking steps to correct it. This didn't happen today, or this week.
For the record, I have to disagree. I believe it's a perfectly fair thing to say at this point. Especially after the latest fiasco aka the Spellplague/4E.
If it is not fair to say it now, exactly when would be a good time to point it out?  |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:27:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkins
*casts Otto’s Irresistible Dance*
Hey, lets remember that this scroll is a celebration of a victory won by the fans of the Realms. And while I value (and even agree with some of) the opinions being voiced, please take it elsewhere.
So you want people to shut up, basically?
Calling this a victory is premature at best. We have no idea how this will play out. It might be referring only to the upcoming pub in October, and maybe nothing else. Until we get some confirmation and their intent is better described, we don't really know anything.
Frankly, I'm tired of promises and teasing. Give me something concrete.
I agree with this. If they're talking about that one upcoming book, then I don't see that as a victory. Especially if that book is going to do what I think it's going to do --- revisit, once again, Realmslore we have had for an edition or two already. Maybe with a little extra spice, but still the "same old-same old". That's my guess, anyway. I won't know until I get my hands on it and see for myself or hear about it on the forums.
Now if Ed is producing much, much more content than that upcoming book, then I can call that victory.
Honestly, if they can finally cover regions of the Realms that have sorely needed it for years upon years (Lantan, Sossal, Veldorn, Old Empires, Bloodstone Lands, and all the non-Faerunian continents, to name a few) then I can call that a huge victory.
I have to say, and I am sure there are quite a number that will agree, but I am quite sick of the Sword Coast/Waterdeep/Dalelands/Cormyr/Silver Marches/Thay content overload I have been seeing in all the editions of the Realms. Cover something new for once, or hardly covered at all.
So let's hope the Realms that is coming will see a much more expansive world than it is now. Since, as I mentioned before, the Realms feels, and has been written that way it seems, for years as a rather small place considering the amount of material rehashed in the same regions over and over again. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think Ed being this involved in the Realms is a good thing. Even though we don't know the full capacity, his book coming out should at least make a lot of people happy.
I'd wager that how well the "Ed Greenwood Presents" sells will have some bearing on his level of involvement on anything else Realmsian.
Over the years WotC has regularly tested the waters with new book designs and content ratios (fluff to crunch) to see what people will buy.
"Maybe", in this case, is good enough reason to both buy the book and to tell a friend to buy the book. Send a clear message to WotC. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 05:52:02
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*** Markustay doing Otto’s Irresistible Dance *** (don't picture it... its not a pretty a sight)
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'm going to marry this book.
And when your at work, it will be cheating on you with me!!!
Seriously people, 4e is dead, and Ed's being put in charge - why are we still at each other's throats? I feel like Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum a the end of Independence Day - where's my cigar.. I hear the fat lady singing!!!
Lets all meet-up at Gencon and shake our money-makers (or what yur momma gave ya)! Huzzah!!! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 11:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
*** Markustay doing Otto’s Irresistible Dance *** (don't picture it... its not a pretty a sight)
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
I'm going to marry this book.
And when your at work, it will be cheating on you with me!!!
Seriously people, 4e is dead, and Ed's being put in charge - why are we still at each other's throats? I feel like Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum a the end of Independence Day - where's my cigar.. I hear the fat lady singing!!!
Lets all meet-up at Gencon and shake our money-makers (or what yur momma gave ya)! Huzzah!!!
Well, I dunno if I'd go that far celebration-wise, but we have a lot to look forward to:
*The Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms tome - seriously, each and every Realms aficionado should be stoked about this. Here will be the Realms as envisioned by Greenwood the Great (if I may borrow a Tolkien-esque location name) himself, free of the hands of others.
*The same Greenwood the Great will have a major say in where the 'official' Realms is going from here. Sure, we may get some stuff from people who 'don't get it', but we can hope that Ed will have some major influence over what gets published. And we can hope that he will be able to do some major repair work on the Realms a la ESdB's thread on the topic. Because Creation knows, it needs it.
My Vestments of the Candlekeep Grognard are still on the hook where I put them after these things were announced - and I will do my very best to leave them there until I see what Wizbro allows Ed to do. I can always put them back on if I don't like what I see, after all.
- OMH |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2012 : 23:07:21
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| I'm very excited for all of this and more. I hope I can continue to provide for the Realms in some fashion. Ed at the helm is indeed a good thing. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
239 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2012 : 00:25:02
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A lot of what I liked about the Realms was destroyed in the Spellplague, to the point where I don't really have much confidence nor hope for FR's future. Doubtful that anything short of resurrecting most of the destroyed nations and gods of 4E would really get me interested in this new Realms.
Although would be happy if that bastard Cyric finally got killed... |
Edited by - deserk on 10 Jun 2012 00:28:24 |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2012 : 00:48:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Soturno
Ed at the helm, of course! But would be nice to have Jeff Grubb as first mate!
AMEN! 
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2012 : 06:02:01
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| The egg looks promising, but I'm not going to count my chickens yet. |
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Ed and the next FR
