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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 06:31:03
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Just realized something...
Meiritin was found in 227 DR, and it was conquered in 231 DR.... just four years! 
Poor little hairy-footed bastards... no-one ever leaves them be.
Map is looking good, by-the-way. I didn't like the way it looked all 'washed out' from expanding it, so now I'm rebuilding great swaths of it. Just started laying the roads (one road, actually - the rest are trails and paths) a short while ago. I referenced several other maps for the Westgate area (damn little on that area - it didn't fall out in ANY regional splats) - I found some hills on the Fonstad map (which appear on no other, and Ed said that one was based on his own maps).
I also fluffed-up the forest a bit (it is going back to the 1e days  ), so Ilimar is buried deeper, and the Gnolls (and frog-folk, etc) have more forest to roam now. I brought it right up to the mountains (my assumption here is that the halfling Realm stops at the forest's edge, so in order to have so much mining, the mountains had to actually touch their territory. Its only a matter of time before someone in Turmish gets the idea that if the halflings are tunneling into the mountains, then they are under Turmish (technically), and all their mineral wealth is rightfully theirs.
Its slow going without my Icon set and terrain, but I'm doing it the way I started out - copying and pasting like mad. I can really get all the fine details in now with the higher resolution.
Glad you turned the 'bad dwarves' into duergar - that was my thought as well. Between whats in the Five Shires material, and all the stuff in the surrounding area (from the Vilhon Reach supplement), you have quite a lot of threats (adventuring opprtunities) to choose from.
Can't believe I never noticed the Kirre before - guess Athas isn't as 'closed off' as we once thought (I still think Abeir is Athas). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 07:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Just realized something...
Meiritin was found in 227 DR, and it was conquered in 231 DR.... just four years!
Poor little hairy-footed bastards... no-one ever leaves them be.
True! They have been kicked all over Faerun! I didn't think they were conquered so quickly in Meiritin though...the GHotR says after 500 sometime...perhaps that is simply when the halflings fled finally?
quote:
Map is looking good, by-the-way. I didn't like the way it looked all 'washed out' from expanding it, so now I'm rebuilding great swaths of it. Just started laying the roads (one road, actually - the rest are trails and paths) a short while ago. I referenced several other maps for the Westgate area (damn little on that area - it didn't fall out in ANY regional splats) - I found some hills on the Fonstad map (which appear on no other, and Ed said that one was based on his own maps).
I also fluffed-up the forest a bit (it is going back to the 1e days ), so Ilimar is buried deeper, and the Gnolls (and frog-folk, etc) have more forest to roam now. I brought it right up to the mountains (my assumption here is that the halfling Realm stops at the forest's edge, so in order to have so much mining, the mountains had to actually touch their territory. Its only a matter of time before someone in Turmish gets the idea that if the halflings are tunneling into the mountains, then they are under Turmish (technically), and all their mineral wealth is rightfully theirs.
Its slow going without my Icon set and terrain, but I'm doing it the way I started out - copying and pasting like mad. I can really get all the fine details in now with the higher resolution.
Glad you turned the 'bad dwarves' into duergar - that was my thought as well. Between whats in the Five Shires material, and all the stuff in the surrounding area (from the Vilhon Reach supplement), you have quite a lot of threats (adventuring opprtunities) to choose from.
Can't believe I never noticed the Kirre before - guess Athas isn't as 'closed off' as we once thought (I still think Abeir is Athas).
I'm really glad you decided to do this MT! I was afraid any map I made would have been horrible (which my first was!).
I should hear back tmr on that Photoshop by the way!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 07:47:42
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Using a poor man's grasp of making things, I tried a Cover for this work:
DEAD LINK (EDIT 1/23/23)
Anything better you would like to do...please?  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 23 Jan 2023 19:55:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 08:55:21
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Nice.
Meiritin was actually conquered at least twice. Eventually they just said screw-it and moved on.
The Gnomes of Mar could be Netherese refugees (their descendents, actually).
Going through stuff, i just realized I'll have to convert at least 3 other maps, maybe 4 (one in the Darokin supplement). They are all upside down.
Also...
Eastshire = Westshire (that one's confusing- maybe Weastshire)
Southshire = Eastshire (I might just go with Suthshire, after the famous Suthberry clan...)
And Highshire = Darkshire (not that I needed to change the name of this one - it just fits the theme better - they are on the fringe of 'civilization').
Yeah, might as well keep it simple with Weastshire and suthshire - easy for folks to remember. 'Darkshire' should probably just be the nickname for the place (so officially its Highshire, but everyone calls it "Darkshire").
I may want to contribute lore to this as well, now that you've put my name on the cover.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 15:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Nice.
Meiritin was actually conquered at least twice. Eventually they just said screw-it and moved on.
The Gnomes of Mar could be Netherese refugees (their descendents, actually).
Going through stuff, i just realized I'll have to convert at least 3 other maps, maybe 4 (one in the Darokin supplement). They are all upside down.
Also...
Eastshire = Westshire (that one's confusing- maybe Weastshire)
Southshire = Eastshire (I might just go with Suthshire, after the famous Suthberry clan...)
And Highshire = Darkshire (not that I needed to change the name of this one - it just fits the theme better - they are on the fringe of 'civilization').
Yeah, might as well keep it simple with Weastshire and suthshire - easy for folks to remember. 'Darkshire' should probably just be the nickname for the place (so officially its Highshire, but everyone calls it "Darkshire").
I may want to contribute lore to this as well, now that you've put my name on the cover.
You have already contributed to lore! A map is worth a picture, and a picture is worth a thousand words right? The additions you have placed help a great deal to add depth and connections to Faerun.
For the gnomes of Mar however, I did add in how they came to be there (and much later). As of 1240 DR they were in Mar due to being granted lands for their work on the ports of The Shire (which they started in 1205 DR).
Keep it coming! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2012 : 16:27:41
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Ahhhh... but Mar fell outside of Hin territory (perhaps that was a deal brokered between the Turmish, Hin, and dwarves of the Aloreum?)
Anyhow, I decided to keep Highsire - no need to add to the already (sometimes) confusing conversion.
I have other plans for 'Dark Shire'... its the secret 'sixth shire' (or so it is called in whispers...). Going with the whole "#6 is evil" thing. Its basically all the Gulthmere that the Hin don't control (to the west). I don't want to spoil the look with borders (which doesn't really fit in the Realms), so I may do a small insert-style map showing political boundaries. Hopefully I'll have another WIP up later.
EDIT: I am currently placing 'temp paths' (my newest technique), so it will be easier to tweak the terrain, AND see precisely what is going on. Without the roads (and many labels), it gets very confusing. I am actually kinda surprised how 'small' the shires are, which you only really see when the roads are placed. Its deceiving because of the way things are spread out. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jun 2012 18:54:50 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 01:59:27
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Did you know that as of the 3.0 Forgotten Realms Setting, there were over 73,000 Halflings living in Sembia alone? 
BUT...there are over 87,000 Halflings in the MOONSEA area!
And only just over 12,000 in the Dales?
Farther afield there are over three quarters of a MILLION halflings in Tethyr alone! Amn ONLY has over 440,000!
That's gotta be included in this "thing" somehow! lol
I'm still really confused about the 87,000+ halflings in the Moonsea area when compared to the 12k in the Dales...
EDIT (9:30 p.m. EST 6/1/12): one thing I can say for sure is that I'm not at all feeling guilty about that 220,000 population for The Five Shires any longer! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 02 Jun 2012 02:30:55 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 04:04:25
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If halfling can field 2/3 their population as an army, why the hell haven't they taken over Toril yet?
For some bizarre reason, in 3e they inflated all the populations all over the Realms beyond belief - I would just ignore most of the figures in the 3e material. Someone over at the WotC boards once crunched all the numbers, and realized the planet couldn't feed all those intelligent species - within 6 months of the release of 3e, everyone should have starved to death.
None of the Moonsea cities (that I know of) likes demi-humans very much - where are they all hiding? Is Zhentil keep using them like cattle to feed their orcs? On the other hand, its makes sense there are so many in Sembia - lots of rich merchants' pockets to pick. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 04:24:26
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Well, the inflation was also in 2e! I mean, the cities of Sembia were topping out over 120,000 people each!
I'm going to say the Hin population of the Shires is 220,000...and that is a LOT of Halflings! Considering that over 40,000 of those live in three cities on the coast, I think it isn't too much.
For the Army thing...I'm going to put a maximum muster at about 20% of the entire population. Even at that, nearly 75% of that number would be militia only.
The standing army of The Shire I think looks good at about 5% of the population...which makes it about 11k troops spread out over their navy, city guards, the Fangs, the Strikers and etc. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 05:32:33
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An awesome idea for The Five Shires by Markustay!
quote:
Yup.
A Hin could sit comfortably in the front - on the box that covers the axle - and have plenty of cargo room, but a human would have to sit on the floor of the cart, which wouldn't be very comfortable on long rides (but it sure beats the hell out of walking hunched-over for 8-10 hours!)
I suppose elves could crouch-walk (Drow would have it easiest), but Elves could also cut cross-country easily enough. There may also be some sort of weird sling-carriage (that hangs between two ponies) for traveling 'dignitaries'.
New Lore: The Buck-Apple tree.
Buck-Apples are smallish apples that grow on dwarf buck-Apple trees. These strange fruit-bearing trees were specially planted all over the Five shires long ago to serve a two-fold purpose. Firstly, they are delicious! They were planted on either side of all the major back-trails, one right after the other - this gives travelers plenty of food to eat as they plod along (and Hin are notorious about having enough food to eat!)
Secondly, the tree is an odd shape, as well as small - it grows very similar to an Accacia tree (a species found in Katashaka, and supposedly on other worlds as well). The tree reaches a maximum height of about 8', but its canopy (starting at about 5') can spread as far as it is tall in all directions. By planting these on the either side of wide Hin trails, they create a near-solid cover that keeps aerial marauders at bay, and also keeps 'big folk' from going where they are not supposed to. The branches are also very tough and knobby - almost thorny - and are difficult to cut through. legends say the Halfling gods created these trees as both protection and nourishment for the Hin, while others tell a tale of druids and magical folk assisting the small folk when they first came to the Gulthmere.
Regardless, the trees do a very adequate job in keeping unwanted intruders out. The only way for larger predators (including humans) to penetrate deep into Hin territory is to cut across the dense, primordial forest, and few non-Hin have done so and lived to tell the tale. The Gulthmere is no easy mistress - Gnolls and worse can be found in its depths.
These trees - along with other varieties - are also planted all around halfling homesteads and within their town - from above, it is nearly impossible to spot a Hin village. The only truly clear areas within the Five shires are the farmsteads, and these are maintained some distance from the living areas. One could fly on dragonback all day over the Gulthmere forest and not see a single halfling, or any other sign of them, save for a few scattered crop fields. Even their livestock is well-hidden from the unobservant eye.
Halflings are so over-protective of themselves they've even been know to alter names and even compass directions on their maps, just in case they fall into the wrong hands (one Hin trick is to create a map that you must look into a mirror to read properly!)
This would lead to MUCH Cider in the Shires, many pies, lots to feed horses on trips and so much more. Apples are a versatile crop, and I can indeed see them all over the Shires. I'm sure in some places there might be holes where a tree has died or some such; but even in these places the Hin would simply make camp...or ambush!
Essentially, Hin (and other shorter races) would be able to make full use of the roads to make good time; but taller races would be forced to resort to essentially travel in wilderness terrain at a much slower pace. Hin armies would easily be able to out-maneuver invaders (especially orcs) even though normally they have a slower rate of movement.
Excellent stuff on the trees!
I like the map idea too. Very simple, but how many orcs are going to be carrying around a mirror...or are even able to read!
EDIT: I forgot to even mention the Hin up in the apple trees spying on passersby or attacking from the relative safety of thorny trees! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 02 Jun 2012 06:09:35 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 05:47:28
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How about...
New Lore: Boltbriars
All over The Five Shires, Hinfolk constantly consider ways to ensure they are safe and that their land won't again fall to invaders. One of the earliest methods of bringing Hin safely away from harm was the invention of the Boltbriars.
All around villages, townships, in the wilds, and even within parks of large cities you will find large stands of flowering or berry producing briar patches. These places have long served as refuge for Hin in trouble from bigger folk and even larger predators such as bears or magical beasts.
Each large stand of seemingly normal thickets of flesh tearing thorny bushes actually holds small Hin sized crawlways into which Hin can quickly dart if being chased. This would protect Hin from normal predators, but such is usually not enough against a patient foe who would simply wait for the Hin to emerge; and so in the midst of these will be found a small burrow tunnel that leads down into the ground and then into a mazelike complex of tunnels.
Even if smaller predators were to dare a boltbriar, the tunnel itself is usually covered by a hatch to hide under; and if a larger humanoid foe were to belly crawl into the place (not always a good idea if the Hin you are chasing is armed!), prying open the hatch and then crawling into dark and close quarters is enough to delay chase. Meanwhile, the Hin that bolted into the briars has often quickly found his way through the tunnels and out an escape hatch in either a distant similar boltbriar or even into a village where help can be obtained.
Any Hin native to an area will know the lay of the land and where the local boltbriars are and their many interconnected tunnels and escape routes. Local militia often will use them in defense of the land to flank or attack from the rear as well. In addition, many of the chambers in these boltbriar tunnels will have some few weapons such as arrows, bolts, a couple of daggers and even several days rations in tiny sealed casks.
These tunnels are sometimes occupied by burrowing animals, but frequent visits of the militia or farmers with dogs usually keeps them clear; as well as liberal use of certain strongly scented herbs that most wild animals equate with civilized folk and so stay clear of.
In the deeper parts of The Five Shires, the Fangs (the professional standing military of The Five Shires) also use boltbriars in various locations for use in scouting, camping and stocking of weapon caches to be used against future threat.
An old Hin saying goes "If a tall one thinks simply staying clear of brambles and briars will keep them from getting poked when they are in the wrong place, then they don't know how bloody the briars can be!" |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 06:52:33
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Against flying foes (such as dragons and such)...
Through the history of the Hin within the Gulthmere Forest, flying predators have vexed them; especially dragons! To instill some fear in any beast that has much of a mind (and to outright kill others who just don't learn from their mistakes!), the Hin have created nasty surprises for flying predators:
New Lore: Tree Pikes
Especially near villages, Hin will often fasten strong hafted pikes of heavy steel blades within the surrounding trees. Large dragons and beasts as big as these would easily be impaled by their own weight if they simply tried to force a landing near Hin which they had spotted beneath the tree canopy. Smaller, and less threatening birds of prey and natural creatures go completely unharmed by such Hin practices. The pikes are often checked, and just as often ensured to be sharp and hidden.
New Lore: Leg Breakers
Even if a dragon or other large predator decides to avoid the trees and instead land in clearnings, the Hin often have nasty surprises for them there as well. Pits made at sharp angles at the top to the bottom (and there at the bottom often are placed sharp objects!) are dug even in the fields of the Hin farmsteads. These are covered with rather stout boarding and then covered in dirt as well (or grasses in certain places) to appear just as the ground. Only the truly heavy weight of creatures even larger than horses can break through these covers; and often will considering the heavy weight such a beast would place on its limbs as it chases Hin on the ground. When such are ruptured, the beast's leg will, it is hoped, be hurt severely or broken at best.
New Lore: Strawhooks
Many Hin use thatching upon the roof of their home, especially in the countryside. A common practice is to first place a series of fishing nets over the roof which has dozens of fishing hooks imbedded within its mesh. This is then carefully covered by the Hin so that it is unseen. Any large creature (or even thief!) trying to cross or land on the roof is very likely to have several hooks bury in either their bare foot or their boot. Pulling away is no help once the trap is noticed because this only causes more of the net to pull free and more hooks to become possibly attached to the offender in a very unpleasant way. Lighter creatures, such as birds and such, are in no danger from the hooks as they are buried deeper in the thatch than the weight of the bird would press down upon.
New Lore: Wing-whippers
Because a truly stealthy dragon or other magical creature might approach a Hin village while invisible or hidden in some other manner, most Hin hang wing-whippers between the trees of their village. These very fine ropes would never stop the swooping attack of a dragon, but they will impede his flight in the future. As the beast hits the wing-whipper, it rips several many thonged razor sharp lengths of flailing chains from nearby trees! The flight of the swooping dragon, wyvern or what have you causes these small wing-tearing flails to twist around the limbs (and hopefully wings) of the flying creature and begin to inflict numerous cuts. Swooping down on a lone Hin trying to get lunch can result in the attacker having severe damage done to their wings ere they clamp their claws or jaws on the Hin farmer! As few flying creatures simply drop right out of the sky on top of the Hin and must instead fly at a swooping angle, the trees of The Five Shires are extremely vexing and even deadly at times to flying predators! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 07:06:03
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Here are a few more:
New Lore: Haytowers
All across the farms of The Five Shires are small farms which produce and abundance of food; and so, often they are sought out by wild beasts, magical creatures and other types unwanted by the Hin. On these farms will often be found the many piles of hay used for roof thatching and feed for certain livestock...or just as often bedding for anything from chickens to the Hin as well.
Beneath many of these piles, however, stands a sturdy wooden tower. Having hay piled all around and over top of it, this covered wooden tower makes a good observation platform; even if a bit hot in the hottest days of the year. Safely tucked within will usually be found a pair of Hin militia or farmer's hands armed with heavy winch powered crossbows much larger than Hin will usually use. The weapon being mounted on a swivel-post and capable of firing from any direction from beneath the seemingly innocent pile of hay.
These towers are typically no higher than eight to ten feet tall at most and not truly intended to be defensive positions. Many have hooks along the wooden supports to help hold up the hay, and these may pose some small danger to larger animals attacking the haytowers; but it is not their purpose. At the bottom of the tower beneath all the hay will most often be found a hatch that allows access to a tiny crawlspace (just big enough for a gnome or halfling perhaps) that grants access to boltbriar tunnels.
New Lore: Pony-Pricklies
Nothing makes a Hin farmer or merchant more angry than some wild beast attacking his pony! To give at least a sore mouth or broken tooth to would-be attackers, Hin have started to fasten spiked collars and even modified "dagger-saddles" to their pony stock. While this doesn't always prevent their stock from being attacked, it does help many survive as a beast will often withdraw from attacking a pony after its own mouth is gashed by the blades from modified saddles and collars!
New Lore: Ripple-Reeds
For a hiding Hin farmhand or even an ambushing Hin Fang, Ripple-Reeds have been used by the Hin for hundreds of years. Not just some random reed, but a finely carved stout hollow tube of wood, Ripple-Reeds are carried by almost all Fangs and many militia as well. Hin fisherfolk will also usually carry a Ripple-Reed in case they are set upon while at work too.
The hollow tube, usually a foot long or more (most being almost two feet long) is used to simply hide beneath the water most often, usually among a patch of reeds growing from a pond or slow moving stream's elbow nook. Most are thick enough to withstand any sort of normal use without breaking, but many Hin farmers and fishermen carry much thinner sorts that they fashion from actual reeds.
The most famous use of Ripple-Reeds is in the slaughter of orcs (or other invaders) crossing a shallow river. To either side of the ford, Hin will be laying deep and on their sides, all the while breathing in the air from above until the orcs are nearly fully cross. When they are attacked on the other side by the majority of a Fang, the Hin in the water stand and begin to barrage the invaders with slingstones. If the orcs turn to attack, the Hin simply slip beneath the water and float down river before emerging on the side of their allies to barrage the flanks of the orcs with yet more slingstones...which are in abundance on the bottom of the river should they run out of normal stones.
New Lore: Scarebows
A scarebow is a very simple contraption really. It is a post set in the middle of a field with a well oiled heavy crossbow attached with a swivel mount. The relaxed arms of the weapon point out like the arms of a common scarecrow, and a heavily oiled leathern jerken is placed over it along with a straw hat and other items to make the weapon seem almost identical to a common scarecrow unless someone is close at hand to inspect it.
When a farmer needs to delay an attacking beast or even humanoids, he simply unlatches the bottom fastener, lifts the heavy crossbow and cranks back and arms the machine. Most of the encumbering scarecrow covering is easily removed at the same time, and then the Hin has only to aim and shoot.
Scarebows are not only common in Hin farms, but even along the watch towers and walls of smaller Hin towns and villages. Here they appear as a vigilant guard standing upon the wall looking out, and a patrolling Hin militiaman will simply turn them or move them about a bit here and there while he is on watch while passing by that point.
Of course, the most famous Scarebow is a golem created by a wizard for the village of Ringrise. This odd contraption actually DOES walk about the exterior of the village, looking all the while like a Scarecrow; but the golem can actually winch and arm its own heavy crossbow and fire it as well by falling to all fours! Called "Old Scareorc" by the children of Ringrise, the golem has proven many times to be a valuable defense for the village; although it will only attack orcs without being given specific demands by the wizard Harndigle "Half-Halfling" who lives in Ringrise.
Harndigle has no Hin parent or ancestry, he is just a very short and wiry human who moved to Ringrise some fourty or so years ago from some far land to experiment with various contraptions in the peace and quiet of The Five Shires. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 02 Jun 2012 21:03:06 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2012 : 20:40:02
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Hinways - A Hinway is a special path designed by halflings for use in their lands, primarily to make it very difficult for 'big folk' to get about. The trails are actually quite wide - some say as big as human roads - to allow the wide, low Hin-wagons to pass each other. The primary feature of the Hinways are the stands of buck-Apple trees that line either side. These - coupled with well-cultivated razorvines, boltbriar thickets, and other assorted hard-to-navigate features - only give a clearance of 5' (or about 1˝ meters)from the ground. The Hinways are well-maintained, not just by the Fangs but by every halfling that uses them, to keep their precise height. This includes leveling the floor of the trails as well - any ruts are filled, and other unevenness that may occur over time do to erosion and other forces.
Another feature of the Hinways is the numerous traps, aside from the razorvine mentioned above. These include false side-trails with pit falls, webs (some with large hungry spiders), Confustications (see below), tree-pikes, and many other devious traps. These are all labeled clearly in Hin Runes or by other markers - at halfling eye level - and every Hin knows them well (including children old enough to walk). The markers are a well-guarded secret of the Hin - even halfling outsiders will not know all of them, except for the few that are marked in Hin Runes. Very rare is the non-Hin that is allowed to know of them and their meanings - Elminster being one of those individuals. Such people are deemed 'fatpals' - a term of endearment and friendship amongst the Hin.
Buck Apples - These fruit grow from the Buck-Apple tree, and are actually a large variety of crab apple. They are both disease and insect resistant. Hin love the bitter taste of these fruit, but most others do not. Elves absolutely loathe the flavor, and dwarves and gnomes will usually only use them in other dishes, such as savory pies. Humans consider them an 'acquired taste' - why humans bother acquiring a taste for something is beyond the Hin, but some do learn to enjoy the flavor of buck Apples (and manage not to get belly-aches in the process). Except for the shirepig (boar) and a few other not-so-discerning critters, Most animals will eat the tart fruit only when very hungry. Chordevoc Races of the Wild, pg.188), strangely enough, will eat them when they do not find some nice, crunchy rodents to eat.
Surlish - This squash-shaped fruit is a shiny yellow, albeit a bit more orange then bananas, and has succulent flavor all its own. Some folks (like dwarves) find the taste way too sweet, but halflings love extremes in their food and cooking, and have created many a popular recipe using things others don't normally enjoy. The Hin have devised a method of extracting the overly-sweet nectar from the fruit, and use this as a sugar substitute in many of their recipes (sugar being much harder to procure in the north, unlike down in Luiren). One big favorite of visitors to the Shires is 'Buckleberry Pie', which is actually made from Buck Apples, cranberries, and a decent helping of Surlish nectar (to offset the bitterness of the Buck Apples).
Surlish trees look much like Peach trees, with whitish-wood and bright pink flowers. The fragrance from the flowers is quite potent, and insects go into a frenzy when they are in bloom. Outsiders import these flowers both for their beauty, and to extract their fragrance in the making of expensive oils. The oils have become quite popular in big cities like Waterdeep... just don't go out into the garden with it on (as many a noble lady has learned, much to her chagrin). Insects love it, and the rendered-down oil is even more powerful then the flower's aroma in this regard.
Sly Hin have occasionally sold this oil to ignorant adventurers heading into the swamps as 'insect repellent'; they normally only do this to ones they don't like. If the adventures manage to return safely to Hin lands seeking repayment (and revenge), the locals will all act as if the halfling in question didn't exist - even the constabulary. ALL Hin know when strangers are about, long before they get close, so its an easy thing for one to avoid those looking for him (or her). In the Five Shires, this practice has given name to the phrase "Surlish-Oil Salesman", which denotes a trader of ill-repute.
Confustication - this is a region of confusion; an area where you can travel into, but get quite lost once inside. Many of these regions are naturally-occurring in primordial forests; some sages claim it was the work of the Fey long ago, while others say these regions are actual 'thin spots' between this world and the hidden one (the Feywild. However, Halfling Masters have managed to duplicate this effect and put it to good use, protecting Hin lands everywhere. Inside the region a person gets confused and turned-around, and even if they can see the place they want to get to, they can't quite reach it (Savings roll against WIS each turn, with a cumulative -1 to the roll for each turn spent in such an area after the first). Elves, Halflings, and Gnomes are less-affected by these areas, for whatever reason (they do not start making checks until the third turn entering, and then only receive the -1 penalty every other turn). Halflings do not know why this is, and Elves keep quite about it, but the Gnomes love to claim this is part of their Fey heritage.
A person found wandering inside a confustication can be brought out by another who is thus-far unaffected, or a rope (or whatever) can be thrown to them, and they can be lead out (but they must close their eyes, lest they still try to stray). Official Hin - soldiers, sheriffs and militia - along with others (trappers and woodsmen) often check the ones they know about, just in case a halfling somehow foolishly got himself trapped. It is whispered the masters can create fetishes (small pouches of stuff with amulet-like qualities) that gaurd against the effect, although they themselves seem to be immune (along with Druids; Rangers save as do Hin).
When a Halfling says someone is 'confusticated', it means they are confused, usually in a very humorous manner. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2012 05:21:41 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 02:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I once commented to Ed about using the Five Shires for Luiren... His response:
quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}
Judging by eBay, The Five Shires is rare and difficult to find. I don't know if it was a short publishing run or something else, but when I was trying to lay hands on it, I was routinely seeing it go for $50. I lucked out and got a copy in really good condition for like $25.
Ed also told me there were some printing issues with that source, too, but the copy I got was one of the ones without those issues.
Five Shires really is a gem. I love mine, and (a long time ago) used it to flesh out the Hin in my Realms.
Just out of curiosity, what was the printing error?
For Dalor: I like the idea of patching it into Gulthmere. Though I'd be sure to tie in a lot of trading caravans, lots of trade both in and out.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 02:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
For Dalor: I like the idea of patching it into Gulthmere. Though I'd be sure to tie in a lot of trading caravans, lots of trade both in and out.
The larger ports of Tothmeer, Thantabbar and Shireton (with Shireton Port...now called Amry) will indeed be more welcoming to big folk. There is likely a solid road from Tothmeer to Telpir (haven't seen MTs latest map); but for the most part, the Hin prefer to trade with humans only in the three major cities and keep anyone they don't want far away from their "comfort zone" within the deeper lands.
There won't be any trade directly to Starmantle simply because the Hin don't control the West Gulthmere (wild lands belonging to tribal folk and Gnolls for the most part); but trade by ship is well and done very often.
In the Five Shires book, the Halflings don't seem to like to venture far from their protected homeland...and that is essentially what MT and I are working toward: a land where they feel free to move about at will and in large numbers; but beyond that safe place they usually mix more with humans (such as in Sembia and Turmish) where they let the bigger folk do the fighting.
EDIT (1:25 a.m. 6/3/12): after seeing MT's map below...ignore what I said above! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 03 Jun 2012 06:24:42 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 05:16:35
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New WIP - the red lines indicate hinways. I still have to tweak them; thats just a rough layout. Since I already have both Turmish and Erlkazar maps, I really don't need to go too far south. I think the final product will be double-wide, and I will have both the complete file, and the split version (for easy printing) available.
I bumped-up the resolution, and it looks great on my comp, but for some reason it looks crappy on DeviantART - I must being something wrong, and I'm too tired to figure it out.
Tomorrow's another day.
(P.S. - I spent over an hr just correcting the Pirate Isles - too bad you can't see most of them)
EDIT: Fixed it - I'm not used to having a resolution that DeviantART automatically turns down - I had to edit my settings. looks good now. Its also obviously far from finished - I still have a lot of the original terrain to go over.
EDIT2: Read about Soulborn HERE., and also the last sentence of THIS article.
We've got Spriggans!
EDIT3: We got a lot more then Spriggans! Download THIS - its an adventure set in the Gulthmere, and its LFR, so its official. Wonder where I'm going to stick the Eladrin town (who weren't even Eladrin when this campaign takes place). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2012 16:47:16 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 15:00:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I once commented to Ed about using the Five Shires for Luiren... His response:
quote:
Sure. Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;}
Judging by eBay, The Five Shires is rare and difficult to find. I don't know if it was a short publishing run or something else, but when I was trying to lay hands on it, I was routinely seeing it go for $50. I lucked out and got a copy in really good condition for like $25.
Ed also told me there were some printing issues with that source, too, but the copy I got was one of the ones without those issues.
Five Shires really is a gem. I love mine, and (a long time ago) used it to flesh out the Hin in my Realms.
Just out of curiosity, what was the printing error?
Duplicate pages, which meant some of the pages that were supposed to be there weren't. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 20:08:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
New WIP - the red lines indicate hinways. I still have to tweak them; thats just a rough layout. Since I already have both Turmish and Erlkazar maps, I really don't need to go too far south. I think the final product will be double-wide, and I will have both the complete file, and the split version (for easy printing) available.
I bumped-up the resolution, and it looks great on my comp, but for some reason it looks crappy on DeviantART - I must being something wrong, and I'm too tired to figure it out.
Tomorrow's another day.
(P.S. - I spent over an hr just correcting the Pirate Isles - too bad you can't see most of them)
EDIT: Fixed it - I'm not used to having a resolution that DeviantART automatically turns down - I had to edit my settings. looks good now. Its also obviously far from finished - I still have a lot of the original terrain to go over.
EDIT2: Read about Soulborn HERE., and also the last sentence of THIS article.
We've got Spriggans!
EDIT3: We got a lot more then Spriggans! Download THIS - its an adventure set in the Gulthmere, and its LFR, so its official. Wonder where I'm going to stick the Eladrin town (who weren't even Eladrin when this campaign takes place).
I think we can leave the 4e adventure out...it would go against what we are working toward I think.
I'm not sure about the Spriggans...I like spriggans though... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 21:07:54
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"Spriggan Tower" works well in the Dark Forest (the western arm of the Gulthmere).
Just 'repaired' the Giant's Run Mountains _ needed to do that for my next Erlkazar map anyway (I am ALWAYS doing a new version of Erlkazar - its my favorite campaign region... to map).
I realize now that I misplaced Smuggler's Bank - I followed my own maps rather then the official ones (I must have liked it better there... still do). I think I'll leave it, since those roads were a pain-in-the-arse, and we really don't need two towns right on top of each other. EDIT: Nevermind, I moved it - I couldn't live with myself. Now we have a brand new hamlet (fishing village) where Smuggler's used to be.
I think the Eladrin Town/Fortress can be canonically ignored regardless - it probably 'arrived' when the veil between this world and the next (The Feywild) thinned-out during the Spellplague (as it did in so many other places).
Or we could just say the Hin "killed them and took their stuff".
Still not sure how I want the new map to fall-out - I'm now leaning away from the idea of side-by-side 8˝ x 11 maps (in portrait mode). I should have bumped-up the Res even higher - more fits on a single page then I plan to do (so the whole thing should have been about twice as big). On the other hand, the new resolution is over 4 times what the official map was, so its still light-years better. And besides, printers easily scale the image to fit the page (which shouldn't cut into the quality in any noticeable manner, considering the new 300 ppi). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Jun 2012 22:45:09 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 21:14:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
"Spriggan Tower" works well in the Dark Forest (the western arm of the Gulthmere).
Just 'repaired' the Giant's Run Mountains _ needed to do that for my next Erlkazar map anyway (I am ALWAYS doing a new version of Erlkazar - its my favorite campaign region... to map).
I realize now that I misplaced Smuggler's Bank - I followed my own maps rather then the official ones (I must have liked it better there... still do). I think I'll leave it, since those roads were a pain-in-the-arse, and we really don't need two towns right on top of each other.
I think the Eladrin Town/Fortress can be canonically ignored regardless - it probably 'arrived' when the veil between this world and the next (The Feywild) thinned-out during the Spellplague (as it did in so many other places).
Or we could just say the Hin "killed them and took their stuff".
Still not sure how I want the new map to fall-out - I'm now leaning away from the idea of side-by-side 8˝ x 11 maps (in portrait mode). I should have bumped-up the Res even higher - more fits on a single page then I plan to do (so the whole thing should have been about twice as big). On the other hand, the new resolution is over 4 times what the official map was, so its still light-years better. And besides, printers easily scale the image to fit the page (which shouldn't cut into the quality in any noticeable manner, considering the new 300 ppi).
I'm all for the Spellplague having thinnned and it appeared, that way we can simply leave it out.
I'm sure that however you decide on the map, it will be light years better than I could do as well!
I'm already working on an outline of the book. I kinda want to model it off of both The Five Shires layout AND the Cormyr layout. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2012 : 21:29:58
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So far I have:
Table of Contents
-pages
-credits
-etc.
Introduction
-letter from Elminster
-letter from one of the Sheriffs
Geography
-Boundaries and Borders
-Climate
-Topography
---Gulthmere
---Coasts
---Etc.
Major Cities
-Ober's Mimbur
-Shireton (and Amry, the port usually called Shireton Port)
-Thantabbar
-Tothmeer
(each of these will be written like the cities in the book Forgotten Realms Adventures)
Smaller Towns
-all other towns in the area
(each of these is going to be more brief like in the Five Shires)
History
-first a Summation History (like in the Five Shires)
-then a chronological listing
Hin Society
-Customs
-Entertainment
-Law and Order
---Sheriffs Council
---Clan Laws and Traditions
-Other aspects
---relations with other races
---The "Underwold"
The Clans
(this section will give details on each clan, at least name lists; but also how the Clans are also actually the Hin Merchant Houses AND Thieves Guilds)
Non-Clan Merchants and Rogues
-The Iron Ring (slavers from the Black Eagle Barony...part of the Night Masks)
-Foreign Merchant Costers that operate in The Five Shires
Religion in The Five Shires
-Halfling Gods
---Clerics and Druids
-"Interloper" Gods
---Nobanion
---Silvanus
---Eldath
---etc.
The Military of the Five Shires
-The Fangs
---Usual posts, strategies, etc.
-The Militia
-The Navy
---Ports, individual ships, etc.
-The Pirates
---Current Pirates, ports they use, strategies, etc.
-The Strikers (Hin Adventuring Parties)
---Prominent groups, where they "Run Wild" and etc.
Non-Divine Magic of The Five Shires
-Laws governing magic
-Where wizards usually live
---an example "Wizard Farm"
-Notable Wizards
---who they are, where they live, etc.
"Big Folk" in The Five Shires
-Ambassadors
-Adventurers
-Invaders
===========================
That is a rough outline so far; but it may be re-organized and added to or taken away from... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 07:33:32
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And Telpir...
I want to do Telpir. The Dwarves of Ironfang out-did themselves with a brilliant piece of engineering there - the Telpir Canal (because Athenos has one - its why I placed everything the way I did).
I also added a cool road that goes from Mar through Irongfang to Telpir. Not a road actually, more like a tunnel, but it ends way short of the two end-points and continues as just a normal path (only dwarves are allowed in the "Underoad").
And, of course, sneaky little duergar sometimes get out that way.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2012 16:22:19 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 07:47:55
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Up late are we?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And Telpir...
I want to do Telpir. The Dwarves of Ironfang out-did themselves with a brilliant piece of engineering there - the Telpir Canal (because Athenos has one - its why I placed everything the way I did).
I also added a cool road that goes from Mar through Irongfang to Telpir. Not a road actually, more like a tunnel, but it ends way short of the two end=points and continues as just a normal path (only dwarves are allowed in the "Underoad").
And, of course, sneaky little duergar sometimes get out that way.
I am glad you are doing Telpir! I wasn't sure exactly what to do with it honestly. I like the sound of what you have planned though!
Hey...are you going to do Florin and Guilder too? I can whip up some stats for the Dread Pirate Roberts and folks!
And no...I'm not joking! I already had an idea for Smeegul Isle too! Yes, it includes a magic ring... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 17:18:06
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Damn - just lost a post to the ethers - that hasn't happened in awhile.
I didn't know if anyone caught those names - I was just having fun naming stuff (I hate when things don't have names). At the time, I didn't give them any thought.
Later (the next day) I did think about smeemgul, and then renamed it "Smeegull" isle. Smeegulls are large seabirds, very similar to normal gulls, except they have the ability to mimic words (just like parrots). They can be found all along the Dragonreach, and many folk think they are actually speaking when first encountered (they are just animals, not people). Hin often have a good laugh at visitors expense this way (like the time a half-orc argued with one for almost an hour before he finally realized what was going on - all it could say was "shut up yur stupid!")
However, on the isle (where they seem to be in huge abundance, more so then anywhere else - perhaps its their hereditary nesting grounds) someone - some suspect a weird goblin hermit that many claimed to have seen from offshore - has trained them to say things like "Nasty fat hobbitsess", and "Wicked, tricksy, false hinses". Most non-pirate Halflings tend to avoid the island just because the constant stream of insults gets on their nerves. Pirates, on the other hand, enjoy the fact that others don't care for the place, and many of them have bolt-holes (secret coves) and buried treasure around the isle. Sometimes a pirate's stash goes missing (as does an occasional pirate), and other pirates are blamed. Of course, some folks think its that same mysterious hermit.
Hin haven't really bothered to settle the isle because, aside from the barrage of mindless insults flung at them, the soil isn't very good and it is battered by storms off the Inner Sea. Although surrounded by shoals, it isn't even very good for fishing either; aside from pirates (and not just Hin pirates), most of the island is surrounded by cliffs and reefs - Pirates learn to navigate the reefs, and the cliff face is peppered with sea-caves, some quite large (the entire island has a very large cave-network beneath it - even the pirates don't go very deep into their hideouts).
One Halfling - Dargle Muttonberry - did decide to try his fortune on the island, despite all the problems; he thought it would be the perfect place to raise brixashulty. Unfortunately, many of the animals kept going missing, and after a buri (small child) disappeared as well, the entire clan moved back to Shaerdon (still the official name of the nation itself... but no-one ever calls it that). They left in such a hurry that they only took what they could carry. The ranch still stands (supposedly), and the brixashulty have gone wild (and multiplied - Dargle was correct, the animals do well there).
The phrase "pulling a Dargle" has come from this, and it means "to put one's kloath* before one's common sense".
*Kloath is an old dwarven word for greed... dwarves have at least 37 different words for greed (in varying degrees). Kloath = ambition, not-so-evil greed, the desire to better one's self and one's station. Hin often take words from other languages when encountering a new concept or thing, and they learned all about greed under the duergar.
Not sure if you want to use any of that - I was thinking about this as I went to sleep last night (this morning).
I guess maybe I want to do Ironfang as well, since I've got some thoughts about that - I'll leave the Shires-proper to you. I was never a very big halfling fan, but my very first character was a dwarf - something about the grouchy buggers fascinates me. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2012 23:14:36 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 18:52:14
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I actually like that stuff indeed!
I was going to be placing a Goblin with a Ring of Invisibility on that Island...no joke! When I read what you wrote I was like  and  at the same time!
I like the smilies...
Anyway, you go for doing Ironfang for sure! I'll do the Shire proper, and then we can combine it all at the end.
We'll simply make a "borderlands" section to add stuff in! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2012 : 23:34:40
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Cool, I'll have more. I left the 'creepy hermit' completely alone, knowing you wanted to take a crack at him. 
Then again... just because people never see more then one...
I've already got some Hin folklore, and two more (less reputable) halfling sub-groups (actually, one's a sub-group, and the other is sub-sub-group of that). After reading the Halfling section in RotW, I figured a good way to work that lore in, along with another cool GH concept (the Rhennee). Neither is part of the Five Shires - they are outsiders. Unlike the decent folk of the Shires, they are closer to Yondalla's dark side (Dallah Thaun).
The folklore I have applies directly to Masters, so that is part of the Shires (connecting Nobanion to the first master). Obviously I'll have to run it past you to make sure nothing conflicts.
Also, cats are considered 'sacred' in Shaerdon. They aren't worshiped or anything (except by Nobanion's clergy), but like spiders to the Drow (and cows in India) they are left alone. No-one hunts them, even when they kill some livestock - this is one of the rules put in place by the druids of Gurnth. They also don't keep them as pets - any sort of 'bondage' of these creatures is considered sacrilege against their nature. Thus, many towns are overrun with stray cats (this may be one reason why so many Hin keep dogs - dogs, being animals themselves, do not have to follow the rules). The Five Shires are one of the few places on Toril, outside of elven lands, that Cooshee (fairy dogs) are fairly common.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Jun 2012 23:35:52 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 00:43:53
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| Only thing to remember is that Nobanion only came to Faerun between 940 to 960 DR according to Ed Greenwood. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 01:28:30
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Ack!
What the hell does he know? Its not like he knows anything FR or the Five Shires...
Is there any date for the first 'Master'? According to the text in that section, they came to be after the Elves 'were all gone' - in FR, that would probably be when The Retreat was first called. I just checked - that was only in 1344 DR! It could just mean the elves of the Gulthmere left earlier (to other settlements, like Evereska). All it really says is "these particular elven folk are believed to be extinct".
And it also doesn't precisely say the very first master came about after they were gone, only that their traditions were based on them - lots of leeway there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2012 : 01:41:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Ack!
What the hell does he know? Its not like he knows anything FR or the Five Shires...
Is there any date for the first 'Master'? According to the text in that section, they came to be after the Elves 'were all gone' - in FR, that would probably be when The Retreat was first called. I just checked - that was only in 1344 DR! It could just mean the elves of the Gulthmere left earlier (to other settlements, like Evereska). All it really says is "these particular elven folk are believed to be extinct".
And it also doesn't precisely say the very first master came about after they were gone, only that their traditions were based on them - lots of leeway there.
The elves left in:
quote:
-652 DR - The Elves (the Gentle Folk) disappear; fearing their total destruction, the Gentle Folk Retreat to Evermeet on a “Last Ride” borne aloft and away upon the backs of golden winged horses.. Orcs invade the land and enslave the Hin. The Realm of Othrong is founded.
I took this from the chronology of The Five Shires as well as the descriptive text in the summarized history.
I thought about having the Hin get their first Druids when Cedarspoke was founded:
quote:
Circa 200 DR – Cedarspoke, a druid enclave dedicated to Silvanus, is established in the deep forest of Gulthmere at the base of the waterfalls cascading from Lake Arluin. Many Hin gladly settle with the humans and half-elves to form the community which operates independently of the Five Shires as the Hin rarely penetrate into the “High Forests” of the Gulthmere near the mountains.
I say this because later I wrote:
quote:
220 DR – Coronal Eltargrim of Cormanthor allows Hin to enter his domain. Many scores of Hin migrate to the great forest of Cormanthor to settle; primarily Hin druids and the wood-wise. Trade to the Coronal’s realm increases via the coastal Dales.
How about that? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Five Shires of the Forgotten Realms
