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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
 Posted - 23 May 2012 : 01:35:18
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Greetings,
I'm looking for a 3.5e mechanic that would grant a nonspellcaster a permanent spell-like ability.
It would be great if it could be acquired by drinking a potion, but I'm open to other options.
Any ideas?
--Eric
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 02:06:50
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The only thing that's coming to me off the top of my head is unfortunately rather flippant: take a level of warlock (all invocations are SLA's).
Actually, that was one of my problems with the legendary locations, or whatever those things were called. They gave some nifty abilities, but they always wore off in a matter of days or months. I've always thought that if you're going through all that trouble to find the thing, it should be permanent, like 2e elixirs in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 02:07:54
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Well, admittedly a 2E source, but it shouldn't be too difficult to adapt to 3E ... Volo's Guide to All Things Magical.
Yes, there are some rare elixirs which can permanently grant various spell-like powers when consumed. Even less exotic magical potions, when "mixed", can (at least in theory) have permanent durations. At least under AD&D 1E/2E rules.
Volo also discusses Mystra's Well of Spells, innate talents, spellfire, etc. Psionic wild talents might also be confusingly called magics by many people. I vaguely recall something about "moon children" or somesuch, some thing very much like Volo's innate talents, but I can't recall the source or even the proper name.
To be honest, I'm always wary of players trying to get something for nothing. I would personally rule no free magic - spend feats, suffer some kind of balancing tradeoff/drawback, or actually progress in levels as a sorcerer or something. Possible exceptions might be "high magic" settings or campaigns involving the outer planes or whatnot, where everybody automatically has a bunch of intrinsic spell-like powers anyways. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 02:44:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Greetings,
I'm looking for a 3.5e mechanic that would grant a nonspellcaster a permanent spell-like ability.
It would be great if it could be acquired by drinking a potion, but I'm open to other options.
Any ideas?
--Eric
Always wish, however there are other options. Many of the PrC confer spell- like ability. Sword dance occurs to me, however that is a spell caster. Uncanny dodge, however is some what spell-like and no magic use required and is not a feat or other then a class skill.
In some ways it depends on what spell like ability you want to provide for a better guess of what might be best way to approach have it might be provided under the rule set. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 04:40:34
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FEAT: Ultimate Elixir
Pre-requisite: Brew Potion, Caster Level 9
A spell-caster who has researched in the most ancient of tomes can discover how to create the Ultimate Elixir. Before such an elixir can be created however, the caster must expend (insert xp here) XP, purchase materials equal to (insert gold you want here) Gold Pieces, and then work into the potion part of their own life essence. Once the Ultimate Elixir is created, there is no re-producing the potion unless it is destroyed; and so the caster must be sure of the magical quality he most wishes to gain from it. This spell must be cast upon the Elixir to finish the creation of the potent magic which will bond with the person who drinks from the container in which the Elixir is placed. Any requirements for the spell must also be met; and only a spell that the caster is already capable of casting may be placed directly from his mind into the Elixir, thus sealing upon it the magic.
The spell so placed becomes a Spell-Like Ability once the potion is consumed. Spells of 1st to 3rd level may then be used three times per day for the life of the drinker; while those of 4th to 6th level may only be used twice per day, and spells of 7th or higher level may only be used once per day from that point forward.
Once the Elixir is created, the creator must be careful not to lose the potion; and it should be drank immediately. It has happened that those who gain knowledge of the spell-caster's intentions to brew such a magical potion will attack at the last moment in an effort to steal the Ultimate Elixir to gain powerful magic!
Just a quick thought... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 09:19:56
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I never agreed to the 3E notion of "spend a little gold, spend a little XP" to gain new magical toys. Too easy, everybody has gold and XP, and once they actually survive a handful of levels they can always afford to change some into magical bling. To my mind, a bunch of magical items shouldn't be so standardized that anyone could eventually buy them and people consider the accumulation of certain magics just another part of a character build.
Now, being forced to spend something that's actually precious ... like, say, permanently losing one stat point, or 1d4 hit points, or 5 years of irreversible aging ... suddenly people get a lot more selective about the magics they buy, a lot less picky about using the magics they find, and as often as not they simply learn ways to do without. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:22:11
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Find a Sarrukh, polymorph into a Kobold (or just be a Kobold). Be a native of Toril. Talk the Sarrukh into helping you. Manipulate Form now works on you (you have the form of a Scaled One native to Toril), and it can grant (thanks to poor wording) any extraordinary, spell-like or supernatural ability.
Beyond that, I'm not sure offhand, assuming templates don't count. Most items that grant SLAs are artifacts (e.g. the Nether Scrolls Planar Mechanics chapter grants 1/day Plane Shift, while the Codex of Dead Names gives you a 1/day use of a variety of spells, for which the best choice is Gate).
Given the potential power of a spell-like ability, it's usually unwise to allow players easy access to it. They should be made to pay a high price. It's bad enough that simple summoning can get you access to creatures with all sorts of amazing abilities (e.g. Lesser Planar Binding can bind a Nightmare, which can use Astral Projection... a 9th level spell). Handing it straight to the player removes even that limitation.
Yes, some feats will grant SLAs. The Archmage high arcana can get them as well (you need the Savage Species Supernatural Transformation feat to change them out and remove any XP cost from it, though). But by and large, there isn't (and IMO shouldn't be) any easy way to just bolt on SLAs to a character. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:26:51
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| To my mind, any DM who allows players to do anything remotely resembling the classic Pun-Pun example is a complete and utter fool. I'm okay with powergaming, but shamelessly blatant munchkin-exploitation should be called out for what it is. |
[/Ayrik] |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 11:49:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
I'm looking for a 3.5e mechanic that would grant a nonspellcaster a permanent spell-like ability.
Manipulate Form 
EDIT: just saw Eldacars post, so never mind. |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 23 May 2012 11:51:07 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 12:57:36
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Fascinating set of answers. Shows some of the problems / possibilities with 3.5e.
I was actually expecting suggestions along the lines of an "embedded magic item" like wyrmgrafts or a permanent mantle-like contingent spell. Basically a magic item without the "item".
One thing I didn't make clear was that having to use a feat kind of defeats the purpose. I wanted it more magic item-esque.
Nevertheless, no constraints on the answers. Thanks for the ideas.
--Eric
PS For those who haven't guessed, I'm trying to figure out how to give Duke Pwyll his "greatshout" ability. The elixir suggestion from VGtATM coupled with the feat proposed above is pretty much spot on, but I was looking to see if there was a way to do it with published rules. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 23 May 2012 12:58:50 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 13:18:08
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| I would ask if this "greatshout" resembles the sort of things written in feats or in spells. I think what Volo calls innate talents is a sort of catch-all explanation for wild magical talents, for the little girl in the North who can cast legend lore and prophecies. And that assumes arcane magic ... divine intervention and miracles can grant all manner of curative or priestly magics unto people, seemingly at random. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:06:26
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Well, then I would suggest an Artifact.
Yes, a one shot artifact Potion. It is perfectly within the rules (much akin to a Deck of Many Things) but instead is in a potion.
I would reference the Deck of Many things, and simply draw from it as a source of ideas (pardon the pun). |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:14:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Yes, a one shot artifact Potion. It is perfectly within the rules (much akin to a Deck of Many Things) but instead is in a potion.
I would reference the Deck of Many things, and simply draw from it as a source of ideas (pardon the pun).
A Halruuan Great Elixir has a chance of adding, among other things, SLAs to a character.
On the other hand, the SLAs can be difficult to get, and if you roll badly, then things will probably not end well for you. Like the Deck of Many Things, it's potentially a campaign-wrecker. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:23:00
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| I'm only suggesting a One-Shot potion that can be found that is indeed an Artifact. No chances...simply drink and VIOLA! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:33:28
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| Ah, the most wondrous part of random chances and rolling is that, in a novel, the character can achieve any result desired from the table. Even the 1% stuff has to happen to somebody, eh? So, for example, a character in AD&D 2E who gulps a second magical potion while the first one is still in effect could in theory roll "00" on the percentile dice for a DISCOVERY! result which makes one of the two magics completely permanent (possibly with some exciting "side effects" invented by the DM). Of course this isn't seriously intended for PCs or NPCs, it might appear only a handful of times over years of campaigning, if at all, but it's exactly the sort of thing an author can conveniently exploit whenever needed. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 23 May 2012 14:37:58 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:38:17
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To be honest, this is one of the things that made 2e such a superior system than 3e to me: it was flexible. So many of its rules were optional, and even many of the ones that weren't could be made so easily (ie: racial level caps). And if you wanted to do something unique, you just wrote it up and bam! Done.
3e just sucks all the wonder out of the setting. Now everything has to be codified and fit into its specific box and every magical item feels like it came out of Diablo. Just give the ability. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 14:48:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And if you wanted to do something unique, you just wrote it up and bam! Done.
And you can't to that in any other edition why exactly?  |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 16:08:58
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| Dragon Marks from Eberron grant spell-like abilities. And there are a couple of feats in the Complete Arcane that do as well. There is also my Feat-based spellcasting mechanic that I posted here. It is un-playtested, but I usually have a pretty good feeling for balance and mechanics. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Edited by - Hawkins on 23 May 2012 16:10:29 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 17:51:05
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Eldacar has beaten me to the Sarrukh answer. You could just say he is a Yuan-ti Tainted One (rather then a Kobold). You could also use that weird Cult of the Amalgamation (IIRC) that Ed and Elaine came up with for their Waterdeep novel - that group should be able to pull-off the same tricks as the Sarrukh on non-scaleyfolk. In either case, however, you'd have to find a creature that has Great Shout as a natural ability.
An embedded Kiira, perhaps? One that grants that ability as something a former owner possessed (which could have been a chosen, all of whom can take a certain number of spells as natural abilities). This would require him to have an elven bloodline (but it could be far removed). Similar results can be gained by using Gem Magic (MoF), or even using chardalyn. In all those cases, you'd have to embed or ingest said gem. I suppose some sort of wild-magic surge could have liquified an existing magical gem (containing Great Shout), and he could have drank that (you'd need a decent back-story).
Hawkins mentioned Dragonmarks, and in 4e we have our own variant - Spellscars. Unfortunately, neither of those are available when/where you need them. We do have wild magic though, and you can spin that any way you want.
The Red Steel Campain Setting (Mystara) has just what you need - he could have the Red Curse via cinnabryl . Its the wrong world, but we have a similar substance - Mica - over in Maztica... perhaps he inhaled some of it? Anyhow, Cinnabryl (which we could say is the same as Mica) gave a person a random mutation, which was usually some sort of physical deformity, but could be a 'power' (so folks in that world were like fantasy 'supers', or mutants). You could even say he bought barrel of magical 'red snuff' off a Spelljammer (cheesy, I know... but it works).
And I also mentioned Chosen above, who have spell-like abilities, but if you don't want to be that drastic it could just be a 'gift from the gods' - such 'blessed' individuals do indeed exist in the Forgotten Realms.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 May 2012 13:50:50 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:07:12
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| The answer likely lies in a Wondrous Item, well many of them are non consumed items, helms, boots and so on, others are one time use, things like candles, dust, Elixir and so on. All that you need is to add spell effect and make effect permanent. The cost I am not even going to start to calculate, however it might have been found. Wondrous items do not have the spell level limit that potions have. From where I sit a potion and an Elixir would look about the same *wink* |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:17:57
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| Duke Pwyll might be descended from a line of were-sergeants who have special and powerful racial abilities for shouting. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:33:24
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quote:
Originally posted by _Jarlaxle_
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
And if you wanted to do something unique, you just wrote it up and bam! Done.
And you can't to that in any other edition why exactly?
Because 3e is obsessed with "balance." You can't do anything to anything without having to worry about it changing the thing's LA or CR, or finding something to balance it, or costing it out complete with common spells so that any idiot with the proper feats can churn it out ad nauseum, ad infinitum. And gods forbid you give anything to anyone for free, because that would go against the sacred wealth-by-level table.
In 2e you could just do it. You could give someone a psionic wild talent without having to figure out exactly what feat it was and level balancing the powers. You could make magical items that did more than just duplicate spells. There was creativity and wonder in the ruleset, not this rigid, Prussian army mess. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 18:50:46
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| Did 3E retain 2E's potion miscibility rules? If so, you could use that trick: he drank two potions at the same time, one of which gave the ability to do the greatshout, and the mixing of the potions made it permanent. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:35:06
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As an experiment, I went with the elixir idea as essentially creating a magic item without the actual item. I made it occupy a new body slot of "stomach".
Game balance thoughts? I suspect this is a bad idea for reasons I have not yet considered.
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Elixirs
An elixir is a magic liquid that grants the consumer the ability to use a spell-like ability when imbibed. An elixir can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 5th level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute.
Elixirs grant the imbiber a spell-like ability usable at will or a limited number of times per day. The drinker of an elixir is the caster of the effect (though the elixir indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).
A character can benefit from at most one elixir at a time. Drinking a second elixir permanently cancels the effect of the first elixir. (In effect, an elixir creates a magic item without a physical component that occupies the “stomach” body slot and is destroyed by injesting a subsequent elixir.)
Physical Description
Elixirs are indistinguishable from potions.
Identifying Elixirs
Elixirs can be identified in the same fashion as potions.
Activation
Elixirs can be initially activated in the same fashion as potions and with the same restrictions.
Once ingested, the spell-like ability granted by an elixir can be activated like any command-word-activated wondrous item.
Elixir Descriptions
The caster level for a standard elixir is the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell (unless otherwise specified).
Creating Elixirs
The creator of an elixir needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the elixir—1800 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. (0th-level spells are treated as ½.) If the spell-like ability granted by the elixir is limited to a fixed number of times per day, the price is divided by 5 divided by charges per day.
All ingredients and materials used to brew an elixir must be fresh and unused. The character must pay the full cost for brewing each elixir. (Economies of scale do not apply.)
The imbiber of the elixir is the caster of the spell-like effect. Spells with a range of personal cannot be made into elixirs. The creator must have prepared the spell to be placed in the elixir (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires.
If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, he pays the XP cost upon beginning the brew in addition to the XP cost for making the elixir itself. Material components are consumed when he begins working, but a focus is not. (A focus used in brewing an elixir can be reused.) The act of brewing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.) Brewing an elixir requires one day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required
Brew Elixir*
Feat: Brew Elixir [Item Creation]
Prerequisite: Brew Potion, Caster Level 9th.
Benefit: You can create an elixir of any 5th-level or lower spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures. Brewing an elixir takes one day. When you create an elixir, you set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the spell in question and no higher than your own level. The base price of an elixir is its spell level × its caster level × 1,800 gp. If the spell-like ability granted by the elixir is limited to a fixed number of times per day, the price is divided by 5 divided by charges per day. To brew an elixir, you must spend 1/25 of this base price in XP and use up raw materials costing one half this base price.
When you create an elixir, you choose only the spell. Whoever drinks the elixir can thereafter cast the spell as a spell-like ability once per day and makes any choices associated with the spell.
Any elixir that stores a spell with a costly material component or an XP cost also carries a commensurate cost. In addition to the costs derived from the base price, you must expend the material component or pay the XP when creating the potion.
Elixir of Shout
Price (Item Level): 50,400 gp (18th)
Body Slot: Stomach
Caster Level: 7th
Aura: Moderate; (DC 19) evocation [sonic]
Activation: Standard (command)
Weight: ---
You can cast shout as a spell-like ability at will.
Prerequisites: Brew Elixir*.
Cost to Create: 25,200 gp, 2,016 XP, 51 days.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
Edited by - ericlboyd on 23 May 2012 19:53:16 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:57:03
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| I do not see anything inherently unbalanced at the start. Especially with the high gp cost. I would also think that like spells buffed with permanency, elixers would be vulnerable to dispel magic as normal. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 19:59:16
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Eric I consider this a very bad idea for the following reasons.
Adding " a new body slot of "stomach" " can open to others uses, swallow a ring for the third ring slot, even it it does not stay that long. There certainly can be other possibilities of a new body slot.
Feat: Brew Elixir is another Meta-Magic feat and some could argue there are too many as it is. Further this feat is very limited in what it provides, it only exists for an added body slot. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 20:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Eric I consider this a very bad idea for the following reasons.
Adding " a new body slot of "stomach" " can open to others uses, swallow a ring for the third ring slot, even it it does not stay that long. There certainly can be other possibilities of a new body slot.
Feat: Brew Elixir is another Meta-Magic feat and some could argue there are too many as it is. Further this feat is very limited in what it provides, it only exists for an added body slot.
Yeah, I agree on the feat being limited. However, the "drink a potion, have a permanent spell-like ability" is a staple of fantasy fiction.
Another alternative I considered was eliminating the Brew Elixir feat and letting anyone with Brew Potion and Craft Wondrous Item create one. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 20:19:44
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| I think you are over thinking this, Wondrous Item like Tome provide a permanent effect. Also the existing rules would appear to permit my plan, no reason for house rules IMO |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 23 May 2012 : 20:22:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In either case, however, you'd have to find a creature that has Great Shout as a natural ability.
If you go strictly by RAW it never says that it has to be an allready existing ability. So with Manipulate Form you could come up with everything you can imagine. |
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Granting Spell-Like Abilities
