| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Jun 2012 : 19:56:18
|
I share that hope. All I know is that they are working on it.
WotC often gets a bad rap for supposedly not making their stuff available, but most of the time it isn't their fault. They're big enough and complicated enough that distribution snafus happen on a regular basis. Let's all try and keep an open mind.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
 |
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2012 : 22:26:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Going with Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP), for instance, may be self-publishing that gets you a good royalty rate (between 30%-70% depending on how you price the book), but that essentially shackles your book to Amazon, and distribution of the ebook is based on their policies, not necessarily your will.
Not quite accurate. Indy authors who use KDP can also sell their books at other outlets, such as Barnes & Noble NOOK bookstore, Smashwords, iTunes, and so on.
quote:
As someone who's looked into the options, it seems to me there's a huge amount of time and resources that goes into doing the things a publisher is better equipped to do: create an entire e-book line, secure editing services, do marketing/promotion, and provide a print-on-demand system that doesn't frustrate readers or bankrupt you. Not that it can't be done--obviously a lot of authors can manage it. It's just not as easy as one might think.
True story. It's a LOT of work.
|
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 18 Jun 2012 02:15:47 |
|
|
|
Elsenrail
Seeker
Poland
72 Posts |
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 16:56:35
|
I will pirate this as a silent protest.
edit: 6 bucks for 1's and 0's?!? Give me a break, a paperback costs as much. This is crap. I'm sorry to the authors who lose money to people like me, but are you serious?? If they printed it, I'd gladly give you my money even if it turns out I hated it. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Jun 2012 17:21:15 |
|
|
|
Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 17:22:43
|
I've been pretty anti-ebook, but I've come to realize that more and more publishers will be releasing e-book-only editions. I've had to buy a couple Stephen King ebooks, as well as a novella from the Coldfire series by CS Friedman because they simply were not released as paper copies. I will ALWAYS buy a hardcopy (and hardcover if at all possible) when available, but I feel less anger towards the ebook-only releases. I plan on getting Shadowbane soon as well.
I don't want to get an e-reader, but I do have the Kindle app on my phone, and hope to get a tablet some time in the near future where I can install the kindle app and read on a bigger screen. The tablet screens don't bother my eyes like some other people so e-ink doesn't interest me. |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 17:26:17
|
Ohgma's quill! Read a full length novel on a smartphone?! I think I'd rather eat my own eyeballs.
edit: But as I've stated before, Coldfire might be worth it. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Jun 2012 17:27:57 |
|
|
|
Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 17:26:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I will pirate this as a silent protest.
edit: 6 bucks for 1's and 0's?!? Give me a break, a paperback costs as much. This is crap. I'm sorry to the authors who lose money to people like me, but are you serious?? If they printed it, I'd gladly give you my money even if it turns out I hated it.
I don't know what paperbacks you've been buying but even the smaller mass market paperback books like those from Forgotten realms are a minimum of 7-8 bucks. In Canada they're 9 bucks minimum. I agree that the price should be lower than it is, but as it stands, it's still lower than paper copies. |
|
|
|
Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 17:27:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Ohgma's quill! Read a full length novel on a smartphone?! I think I'd rather eat my own eyeballs.
I've only read novellas on a smartphone. Which is why I'm waiting till I get a tablet before I purchase any full length ebooks.
That being said, I don't find it hard to read on a phone. I'd just prefer a tablet. |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 17:32:26
|
$6.36 or whatever. Who cares? If I should lose my electricity in the coming zombie apocolypse, I'd like to have a hard copy. An e-book should be no more than $3.99.
edit: No matter what!
edit2: Seriously, I can save a whole dollar fifty to get something or nothing?? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Jun 2012 17:54:51 |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 18:30:06
|
An extension of that argument might be that people should only pay $3.99 for an audio CD ... obviously less than a real piece of turntable vinyl. Of course, almost everybody has the option of printing sheafs of hardcopy for a dime while almost nobody can press their own vinyl.
Alas, I see that *all* of the readers for proprietary eBook formats (including Kindle) prevent the end-user from copying or printing the eBook. Ah well, more and more people are converting their iTunes into plain MP3/OGG formats, I expect that more and more people will convert their KindleBooks into plain PDFs once the novelty (and subscription fees) begins to wear thin. I can't really blame the publishers and vendors from trying to make profit ... although I still feel the entire book industry is trying to dominate tomorrow's technology with last century's printing press mentality. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 18:30:34
|
Fellfire, your feedback about pricing should be directed to the people who decide it: the publisher.
In this case, WotC.
In most cases, we authors have nothing to do with it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 19:00:43
|
Erik's right. Writers only determine the price of an eBook when we self-publish.
When we don't, we have our own issues with eBook pricing and how the publisher divvies up the money. But since those are our concerns and not those of the readers, there's probably no point in laying them out here.
Not that I have a crystal ball or anything, but I think eBooks are the future. They simply offer too many advantages to a world that's getting more and more accustomed to getting its information and entertainment electronically. But I also think paper-and-ink books will be with us for a while longer. I give them twenty years. After that, publishing will all be electronic except for special collectibles.
Meanwhile, the industry is in transition, and Ayrik has a point that in large measure, it's clinging to an outmoded business model. The problem is that nobody has come up with a new business model that will allow traditional publishers like Random House and Wizards of the Coast to thrive. So for the moment, they have to rely on the methods they've got. |
|
|
|
Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 19:14:17
|
For me, price has nothing to do with it. I'm the type of guy who will buy hardcover over paperback. Every time. I don't care that it's more expensive. It's the version I want. Same thing with paper vs ebook. I would rather pay 20 bucks for a hardcover book than pay 1 dollar for the equivalent ebook.
But, I'm not stupid. RLB is right. Ebooks will (over time) phase out paper books. Unless something major happens. I've come to accept this. When given no other option, I will purchase an ebook. I'll do it grudgingly, but I'll do it. Wizards is slowly doing to other books what it did to Erik's. Bruce Cordell's new one, as well as Rosemary Jones' novellas are ebook only. I don't want to miss out on potentially awesome reads because I'm too stubborn. |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 19:24:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
An extension of that argument might be that people should only pay $3.99 for an audio CD ... obviously less than a real piece of turntable vinyl. Of course, almost everybody has the option of printing sheafs of hardcopy for a dime while almost nobody can press their own vinyl.
Alas, I see that *all* of the readers for proprietary eBook formats (including Kindle) prevent the end-user from copying or printing the eBook. Ah well, more and more people are converting their iTunes into plain MP3/OGG formats, I expect that more and more people will convert their KindleBooks into plain PDFs once the novelty (and subscription fees) begins to wear thin. I can't really blame the publishers and vendors from trying to make profit ... although I still feel the entire book industry is trying to dominate tomorrow's technology with last century's printing press mentality.
Ayrik, I have to disagree. When I buy a $20 CD, even though it is ridiculous, I am at least getting something concrete. If you take care there is no reason for a CD not to last a decade or more. Now as if I buy an e-book, what am I getting? It's ephemeral, not quite imaginary, but close. Have you ever had a computer crash and didn't back up your data? How hard is it really to take a finished draft, convert the format and send it out? I don't know how much an author gets per book, but it seems like trademark and distribution don't even begin to justify the astronomical price hike.
edit: Authors please, I don't expect you to divulge whether you get a quarter or a dollar for every copy sold, but am I totally deluded?!
edit2: And yes I know that I am perfectly capable of taking my e-book and transferring it into whatever format my software is capable of as a hard copy, but, damnit man, it's a book. I don't want to have to grab a CD, rip it up, transfer it to a jump just so I can read it on my tablet everytime I don't quite remember something. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Jun 2012 19:54:58 |
|
|
|
Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 19:44:27
|
| I know it's taboo and against the CoC to even discuss it, but the reality is, I can download every single FR sourcebook and novel in less than a half hour. If I were an author, e-books would piss me off. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
|
Edited by - Fellfire on 20 Jun 2012 19:46:00 |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2012 : 20:38:21
|
| I stare at a computer screen all day long at work, so the last thing I want to do when I get home is spend MORE time staring at a screen while enjoying my favorite hobby: reading. Our society is too plugged in for my taste. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2012 : 02:50:44
|
My 5 cents:
1) Thanks Elaine for posting the explaination! Absurd but at least one starts to understand this archaic model.
2) I understand the negative comments on ebooks, but since I bought my Kindle, I love it! I start prefering it very much over paper books, which I never believed would happen until I tried it. I wouldn't read on iPad and such though. The special grace about Kindle is that it is not a lighted computer screen, which is no go after 10 hours office per day.
3) As long as WoTC does not resolve the rights issue, I will not be able to purchase FR eBooks and limit myself to occasionally buying a paper novel instead of the frequent consumption I used to have.
4) I reward publishers who publish eBooks worldwide. That's also the reason why I pre-ordered Paul S. Kemp's "The Hammer and the Blade", (which is available worldwide) instead of downloading it after its release date. |
"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 14:21:49
|
| Although I prefer actual books to eBooks, after reading this thread I decided to go take a look at the Kindle on Amazon... and then discovered that the Kindle Fire, which is priced $99 on Amazon.com, costs $139,99 in my country, Canada. I could accept a price increase of up 20% to account for currency conversion (even though that's very nearly even at the moment) and the costs of shipping and customs, but 40%? There's no way I'll accept such a blatant ripoff. |
|
|
|
Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 15:09:26
|
| Are you sure that was the kindle fire you saw on amazon.com? I just checked and its listed at 199$ for me. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
8041 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 16:33:08
|
| I've pointedly not argued against purchasing the reader itself. People don't complain that they need to purchase an iToy, MP3 player, phone, computer, television, CD player, DVD player, PVR, VCR, turntable, or other piece of hardware to actually view/listen/play/operate all the media stuff they're buying. In fact, entire industries and megacorporations feed on the consumer's need to purchase ever bigger and smaller and better and fancier and newer devices, it's as if people actually look forward to paying over and over again for that brand name tech. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Jun 2012 16:35:09 |
|
|
|
Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2012 : 20:33:14
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I've pointedly not argued against purchasing the reader itself. People don't complain that they need to purchase an iToy, MP3 player, phone, computer, television, CD player, DVD player, PVR, VCR, turntable, or other piece of hardware to actually view/listen/play/operate all the media stuff they're buying. In fact, entire industries and megacorporations feed on the consumer's need to purchase ever bigger and smaller and better and fancier and newer devices, it's as if people actually look forward to paying over and over again for that brand name tech.
As someone who recently shelled out megabucks for the lastest samsung galaxy I resent that.  |
|
|
|
Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2012 : 00:24:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Are you sure that was the kindle fire you saw on amazon.com? I just checked and its listed at 199$ for me.
My mistake: I meant the Kindle Touch, Wi-Fi, 6" E Ink Display. But the $99 price for US and $139 price for non-US customers is correct (clicking on the Kindle Touch ad on Amazon.ca's homepage directs me to the Kindle Touch's international shipment page at Amazon.com). So it looks like it's not just Canadians, but all non-US customers who get ripped if they want to buy a Kindle Touch. Lovely. |
|
|
|
ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2012 : 15:42:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
6 bucks for 1's and 0's?!? Give me a break, a paperback costs as much. This is crap. I'm sorry to the authors who lose money to people like me, but are you serious?? If they printed it, I'd gladly give you my money even if it turns out I hated it.
A eBook is not JUST zeroes and ones, any more than a paperback novel is JUST paper and ink. E-readers and paper are the delivery systems. What matters is the story, and if a story isn't worth 6 bucks, why on earth would anyone want to read it in ANY delivery system?
An eBook is not just a file. It's a novel, and as such it has many of the same costs as a paperback. It requires editing, copyediting, proofing, formatting, art, distribution, promotion, and office overhead. And I can attest from personal experience that an ebook takes as much time and effort to write as a paperback or a hardcover.
It's true that paperbacks have some expenses eBooks don't, such as printing costs, warehousing, and shipping. It's my opinion that when a new book is released simultaneously in print and digital format, the print version should cost more. But as more and more sales move toward eBook versions, the cost of an eBook has to bear a reasonable share of the book's production costs.
I would love to see future FR novels available in each and every format readers prefer. (Except perhaps for cuniform tablets, which are very cumbersome and tough to sign.) As POD technology improves, perhaps we'll see books becoming available in a variety of formats.
|
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 03 Jul 2012 22:40:15 |
|
|
|
BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2012 : 21:01:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
I would love to see future FR novels available in each and every format readers prefer. (Except perhaps for cuniform tablets, which are very cumbersome and tough to sign.)
*Imagines Elaine lugging a hammer and chisel around to book signings.*
*Snickers*  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
|
|
|
Clad In Shadows
Learned Scribe
Canada
158 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2012 : 18:42:30
|
| As a completely 100% anti-ebook person, I just pre-ordered the Nexus 7 Android tablet. Fear not Erik, I WILL read your book. :) |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Rant on eBooks
