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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 15:15:21
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Poll Question:
I was thinking about the Fey (the tauric thread had me thinking centaurs), and I realized that Ed has probably put a lot of thought into that topic already for his home-games. Then I thought, wouldn't it be neat to see a lot of coverage of them in his "Elminster's Realms" tome (series?)?
My next thought was that there should be enough there for a separate volume (and most of us ARE hoping for more of "Ed's Realms", I assume?), but I doubt he'd have the time to do a book like that by himself, or if the would even let him (his lore my conflict with any plans they have for the Creator Races). So then I had the PERFECT solution (IMHO) - how about a Fey-lore book by Ed and Elaine?
She did a LOT with Elven history, and she's also made some interesting references to Fey in her other works (like the Haluraa series), so she has probably given them some thought as well. I know the two of them work (and think) well together, and I think such a book (part story, part source, similar to the almanacs from Mystara/OD&D) would be pure awesome.
So what does everyone else think? Discuss!
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Mar 2012 15:30:41
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 15:25:11
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| A fae book by Ed and Elaine would be pure niftiness... But there is a good third-party resource, which has some Realms alumni as its creative team: Bastion Press's Faeries. It's my go-to resource for all things fae. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 15:38:08
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Thats actually what I had in-mind with choice #6 above. 
IDEALLY, Ed & Elaine would write a source that wouldn't conflict with - and actual support - the material in that book (so we could have two books on the fey that work hand-in-hand, even though one would be apocryphal).
I can think of one or two others I'd like to see contribute, but thats why I wanted some discussion here as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 20:01:18
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| Why assume that Ed does not already consult or collaborate with Elaine about lore within her expertise? |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11995 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 20:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I was thinking about the Fey (the tauric thread had me thinking centaurs), and I realized that Ed has probably put a lot of thought into that topic already for his home-games. Then I thought, wouldn't it be neat to see a lot of coverage of them in his "Elminster's Realms" tome (series?)?
My next thought was that there should be enough there for a separate volume (and most of us ARE hoping for more of "Ed's Realms", I assume?), but I doubt he'd have the time to do a book like that by himself, or if the would even let him (his lore my conflict with any plans they have for the Creator Races). So then I had the PERFECT solution (IMHO) - how about a Fey-lore book by Ed and Elaine?
She did a LOT with Elven history, and she's also made some interesting references to Fey in her other works (like the Haluraa series), so she has probably given them some thought as well. I know the two of them work (and think) well together, and I think such a book (part story, part source, similar to the almanacs from Mystara/OD&D) would be pure awesome.
So what does everyone else think? Discuss!
You know, if they did something like what they did with the guide to the underdark, focusing on dozens of fey cultures throughout the realms it would be very interesting. Even moreso if they didn't focus strictly on modern times. Of course, we've all seen the resources on Myth Drannor, so perhaps the more less known cultures. For instance, we know that there were the dark elves in Damara around what eventually became Dun-Tharos (formerly Narathmault). We know that there were centaurs in Thay (and still are). We know there was the culture of LeShay that were involved with Imaskar. We know that the Seelie and Unseelie Court have representation in the forest of Aglarond, as do the Star Elves.
I don't know how well it would sell though, because quite frankly, I've not been following 4th edition stuff. I am hoping that I like the 5th edition stuff they're talking about, because it might bring me back into the fold. At present, I've become more of a novel follower, and even then, only the novels by authors I really know and like. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2012 : 20:33:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Why assume that Ed does not already consult or collaborate with Elaine about lore within her expertise?
I see no inference that the OP expressed the belief that Elaine and Ed have not consulted on many works that they did not co-write. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 00:42:13
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I would only except a book of the comeplete guide to the fey by Ed Greenwood and ELain Cunningham. along with a side article by Erik Scott De Bie on Fox at Twilight.....
elves are fey... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 01:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
A fae book by Ed and Elaine would be pure niftiness... But there is a good third-party resource, which has some Realms alumni as its creative team: Bastion Press's Faeries. It's my go-to resource for all things fae.
Indeed. I actually bought two copies of Faeries -- one for home and one for work. I really do love reading this book, and it never fails to provide some new tidbit of curious fey lore that I can drop into one of my campaigns.
I regularly incorporate this material into my Realms. Though, I do also tend to combine most of what I draw from the book with my own other pagan/fey/spiritual elements I've established in my Realms. In some cases though, like the various locales that are described, I've largely dropped them "as is" into my Realms.
Plus, Steven Schend, who partly edited the book, had this little bit to say:-
"For those interested in another take/option on Faerie, there is a D20 option from Bastion Press y'all might want to take a look at.....
Bryon Wischstadt, long-time Realms fanatic and all-around good guy, wrote this guide to Faerie (both the realm/plane and inhabitants) and yours truly edited it alongside him. As both of us (and Jim Butler, Bastion's president, CEO, and chief cook and bottle washer) all have a deep and abiding love for the Realms, there's nothing in there that wouldn't work in terms of using Faerie as a source for ancient elves (or other more modern threats). It's a mix of old folklore and modern conceptions of Faerie and even stats up Old Man Winter, Father Time, and Father Christmas if you want such.
Steven
Who apologizes profusely for plugging a product but it seems relevant to the discussion at hand" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2012 : 14:42:45
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| A fey book by Elaine and Ed |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 06:49:42
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| Something similar to the Serpent Kingdoms |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 08:00:03
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| There has been too much focus on elvish subjects already and I want to see how the fey work within the rest of Ed's Realms, not so much how it looks detailed separately. So I would prefer to see it spread out in other works by Ed alone. And it seems like I am alone from looking at the poll. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2012 : 11:40:10
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| Haha, solitarity brother Jorkens! The funny thing is that I'm none too fond of fluffy elfiness myself and would probably vote the same, were I to ever bother voting on such polls. The Forgotten Realms sometimes, to me, seems overly dominated by the endlessly tiresome elven peoples. I recognize it's just a matter of preference, of course. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 17:14:26
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For the very reason you mention, Jorkens, I want a fey source. The Elves are just a piece of a larger pie, and they have recieved far too much coverage, while related creatures - like Centaurs, Satyrs, Brownies (a fairly large group themselves, which should be related to gnomes now), even things like Hags and giants (there are numerous connections).
Fey aren't just little flitterlings - they can be dark, and they can be quite evil - the Shadow fey (from the RL Shadowrift supplement) were a great start. I don't want to know anything more about Elves - they have too much FR lore already, IMHO. I want to know about their homeland - the feywild - and its history and people (and many of the important groups and tribes operating within Realmspace).
I don't want a Feywild book either - I want a fey resource that focuses on the Fey within the Realms; their history, agendas, motives, how they feel about other races, etc, etc..
I want to know what their links are to giants (like fomorians) and other beings, like goblinkind (which should also be fey) and dwarves. The Sarrukh got their own book - shouldn't ALL the Creator Races? Thats a VERY important part of Abeir-Toril's history! Give the Fey the same treatment as the sauroids got in Serpent Kingdoms, and its pure gold. Maybe we can eventually get books on the other Creatori as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
-Why would anybody choose any of the other options? It's like asking if you want to eat surf & turf or a dirty water dog for dinner.
I did expect, however, folks to toss out a few other names. I know Bruce Cordell had some ideas about fey as well (but I'm conflicted on that - he tends to give everything an 'alien' vibe, which is technically correct, but the flavor is a tad off for fantasy, IMHO). He's the one who linked them to the Imaskari - a bit of lore I really like. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2012 17:20:30 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 17:43:53
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How many pages did you want this book to be?
This sounds good, but you know that it would probably be edited into another series of homages to elves with illustrations of hairless anorectic elves with some lonely fey creature peeking from behind their backs like kids during a newscast. Elves sell.
I would prefer to have a total look at how the various species and races of the Realms worked and were connected, all of them summarized in one book. In some ways the Steven Schends elven works has made me a bit sceptical to books giving a highly detailed account of one small piece of the picture as this gives us a skewered view to how it all fits together.
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No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 18:32:39
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| Elves do get most of the glory and the all best toys in the Realms, often more than humans and dragons. Dwarves get short shrift, halflings and gnomes are usually stuffed together into disappointingly thin booklets. I would personally love to see more written about giants, genasi, scaly folk, orcs and goblinoids - although I have absolutely no interest in new age tieflings and dragonborn. It's all preference, no? But if another book about fey must be written then it would at least be best it were written by the most fey-qualified authors available. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 28 Mar 2012 18:37:21 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 20:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't want to know anything more about Elves - they have too much FR lore already, IMHO.
-And yet, as we both know, for so much that has been written over the years about them, there isn't enough to form coherent pictures of various different settlements over the years, and various large chunks of the overall timeline. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2012 : 22:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
How many pages did you want this book to be? <snip>
I am hoping that the "Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms" (a title that is WAY too long) turns into a 'Volo's Guide' style of book, and also become a series (JUST like the Volo's Guides).
To that end, a specialized book - one that is racially focused, rather then regional, should be possible in the exact same format (just as the Aurora's Catalogue had a similar feel to the Volo's Guides).
They should also take a lesson from the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (I think it was 2e... maybe 1e) - that tome was an introduction to the Realms by-way-of-story (the DL one had the same format, and was one of the few DL products I bought). I don't want the entire thing to be one long story (like how those were done), but rather, more along the lines of the Volo's Guides, or how the narration was handled in The North (which had its own mini-story imbedded within the source), or even the Elminster's Ecologies series (another fine thing they should resurrect).
Then, like the Volo's Guides, they could appeal to both gamers and novel-fans (and comic, etc) alike. The 3rd person 1e-2e presentation was wonderful at that - it wasn't just the clever way inaccuracy was built right in (a godsend to a DM), but also the sheer entertainment value of the source itself.
Lets get rid of the DRY, factual presentation of 3e-4e, and go back to 'storyteller mode' for sources. If the setting is going to be truly divorced from the rules, then this should be a no-brainer. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2012 22:44:37 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 00:31:42
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| I noted with interest today that Ed once said, in a long-ago interview, that he never wanted to write anything with Elminster as a central character. But the only thing which he liked even less than writing Elminster was writing Volo. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 01:45:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
But the only thing which he liked even less than writing Elminster was writing Volo.
-Really? I find that pretty interesting. Volo seems the type of character that he'd seemingly like most: a very obvious, but natural medium to push information about the world through (with the caveat that any of it could be misinterpreted, boasting, etc.) who stands out but in a very common and relatively unremarkable way. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 07:17:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
How many pages did you want this book to be? <snip>
I am hoping that the "Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms" (a title that is WAY too long) turns into a 'Volo's Guide' style of book, and also become a series (JUST like the Volo's Guides).
To that end, a specialized book - one that is racially focused, rather then regional, should be possible in the exact same format (just as the Aurora's Catalogue had a similar feel to the Volo's Guides).
They should also take a lesson from the 2e Player's Guide to the Forgotten Realms (I think it was 2e... maybe 1e) - that tome was an introduction to the Realms by-way-of-story (the DL one had the same format, and was one of the few DL products I bought). I don't want the entire thing to be one long story (like how those were done), but rather, more along the lines of the Volo's Guides, or how the narration was handled in The North (which had its own mini-story imbedded within the source), or even the Elminster's Ecologies series (another fine thing they should resurrect).
Then, like the Volo's Guides, they could appeal to both gamers and novel-fans (and comic, etc) alike. The 3rd person 1e-2e presentation was wonderful at that - it wasn't just the clever way inaccuracy was built right in (a godsend to a DM), but also the sheer entertainment value of the source itself.
Lets get rid of the DRY, factual presentation of 3e-4e, and go back to 'storyteller mode' for sources. If the setting is going to be truly divorced from the rules, then this should be a no-brainer.
I should set aside one day of the year to actually agree with people.
Here's where we differ again. I want the authoritative voice, more or less in the tradition of the 1st ed. and early 2nd ed. books. If you use a "Volovoice" you limit the information by both the logic of knowledge and the amount of space used. Books like the Moonsea and the Thay/Rashemen box used too much space to repeat information with the addition of "colour" that I prefer each user to find him or herself.
I love Vologuides, but the best ones are in my opinion the North and Waterdeep as these were an additional view from below for areas already covered. The other ones are great, but they serve as fractures that give good information on the common lives of humans, but does little to present the wilderness and areas as a whole. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2012 : 22:34:33
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| A Complete(?) Fey Handbook by Ed & Elaine |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2012 : 08:11:22
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| A book by Elaine and the author of Bastion Press Faeries, Elaine had a couple of great ideas scattered in her novels. I don't remember any Ed's fey lore except the korreds and one Turmish ritual. |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 07:20:59
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A complete Fey handbook by Ed & Elaine sounds like an awesome idea!
I would definitely buy that. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 14:41:10
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Other: A Fey book by Ed, Elaine & Angel McCoy.
While I think both Ed and Elaine could kick butt at this obviously...Angel McCoy has already put the "mechanics" of the Fey together in another sourcebook already published...the 3e book Magic of Faerun.
Angel has also done quite a bit of work for White Wolf Publishing; but Magic of Faerun was by far one of my favorite books for 3e Forgotten Realms. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 15:39:09
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I figure it should be along the lines of a Volo's Guide, and not just because that is my favorite format. Elaine is an author - I don't know if she's even done any sourcebook-style work. A Volo Guide type of book would highlight her talents better - we know she can write her buns off.
My own ideas about the Fey keep evolving, and are really starting to merge with my larger cosmological musings... Fey aren't real.
At least, not in the prime material (D&D) sense. Thats why all fey living in the prime must anchor themselves, almost exactly like how a lich anchors itself to the prime through its phylactory.
Isn't that a kick in the head? Fey-magic is related to necromancy. If spirits aren't tethered, they are forced to 'move on'.
Not really the right thread for this, but this grew out of my musings on undead, which also keep evolving. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 May 2012 15:39:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36875 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2012 : 17:28:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I figure it should be along the lines of a Volo's Guide, and not just because that is my favorite format. Elaine is an author - I don't know if she's even done any sourcebook-style work. A Volo Guide type of book would highlight her talents better - we know she can write her buns off.
My own ideas about the Fey keep evolving, and are really starting to merge with my larger cosmological musings... Fey aren't real.
At least, not in the prime material (D&D) sense. Thats why all fey living in the prime must anchor themselves, almost exactly like how a lich anchors itself to the prime through its phylactory.
Isn't that a kick in the head? Fey-magic is related to necromancy. If spirits aren't tethered, they are forced to 'move on'.
Not really the right thread for this, but this grew out of my musings on undead, which also keep evolving.
Sharing a common feature does not mean they're related.
Besides, there are plenty of fey that aren't anchored. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2012 : 01:47:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
My own ideas about the Fey keep evolving, and are really starting to merge with my larger cosmological musings... Fey aren't real.
At least, not in the prime material (D&D) sense. Thats why all fey living in the prime must anchor themselves, almost exactly like how a lich anchors itself to the prime through its phylactory.
Isn't that a kick in the head? Fey-magic is related to necromancy. If spirits aren't tethered, they are forced to 'move on'.
Not really the right thread for this, but this grew out of my musings on undead, which also keep evolving.
While you're right about this not being the appropriate scroll for such an elaboration, I'd still like to hear more about your take on the fey, Markus? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fey Resource?
