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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 18:38:12
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Hi,
I DM my 3 other friend for about 8 Months now but since we are really old and close friends my players always end up fighting over trivial things like who will get the 10gp from that loot while there is a big important event is going on. This makes me crazy. And there is the problem that they're not very well educated in the lore of the Realms but they've read some Drizzt novels and a few more so they're not THAT bad. But I'm having hard time with them to get them roleplay.
Their characters are pretty much 2d and it's really frustrating to write the game session and materials only to find my players playing the game nearly ooc all the time, metagaming and no whatsoever realistic character roleplaying. I'm thinking about stoping to play with them because this really makes me both angry and sad.
So what do you guys think? Should I for example organise a session without any combat encounters just to get them roleplay? Or should I do something else? Change my ways or something? How do you handle close friends in your games?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 18:51:44
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| One thing you could try would be to consider their out-of-game comments to be in-game descriptions of what they're doing -- which would lead to many confused NPCs, possibly even thinking they're crazy and/or trying to arrest them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 18:55:27
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| Good idea! Thank you. That could teach them a lesson or two. Also should I punish them with xp penalties if they do/say stuff so irrelevant and ooc ? |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 19:11:37
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| Try rewarding them with a little extra experence points when they actually do roleplay their character properly. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 19 Mar 2012 19:11:57 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 20:06:07
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Ask them if they are willing to commit to a certain activity, involving dice, characters and a certain amount of roleplaying. Make sure that you communicate your intentions clearly.
If they are not willing to play the sort of game that you are interested in, you will need to make up your mind whether you want to play the sort of game that they want. Ask them to define what kind of gaming they wish to engage in and then decide if that sounds like something that is a good use for your spare time. Would you enjoy it? Is there something else you could be doing instead?
If you decide not to play, post notices on relevant websites, bulletin boards and similar, looking for new players. Ask friends or acquintances to join a game. Don't forget that people who have not roleplayed before are still eligable for gaming in the future. It's not a steep learning curve, especially not if they have an interest in speculative fiction, theatre background or just happen to be smart.
What has worked out well for me and most people I know is to narrow down your choices to a few people and then send the a few prospectuses for future campaigns. Ask them to vote on which they'd like and then use that data to form a gaming group around a certain campaign you'd like to run.
If any players, your current ones or any hypothetical future ones, ever accept a prospectus or an otherwise clearly-communicated statement of the genre, tone, level of commitment, desired amount of theatrics, etc. but later prove unwilling or unable to adhere their commitment, my advice would generally be to drop them from the group. An unavoidable situation could have come up, of course, in which case keeping you informed in advance and a sincere apology might be adequate, but in general, people who commit to things and then fail to uphold their commitments are a poor investment in time and effort.
An important lesson in social skills is that it's possible to be friends with someone, but still not include him in every hobby activity. If I have a close friend who is hopeless at playing, I might not invite him a bridge night. If one of my friends is a recovering alcoholic, I don't necessarily invite him to a cocktail-tasting night. Similarly, if you have friends who are not interested or not capable in playing a role-playing game in a way that entertains you, you don't have to have them along for that particular hobby. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 19 Mar 2012 20:09:29 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 21:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Good idea! Thank you. That could teach them a lesson or two. Also should I punish them with xp penalties if they do/say stuff so irrelevant and ooc ?
I'd only do that if they are way over the top. Entreri's idea of giving XP for good role-playing has much merit.
Icelander offers some good advice, too. It is particularly important to make sure that you and your players are looking for something similar out of the experience. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 22:32:39
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As a player and a DM, I concur. Bonus XP is a great motivator and I think it an integral part of the story-telling experience for players and their DM to be on the "same page."
edit: The bonus XP will be especially motivating if any of your players are particularly competitive. Simply award the one who RPs the most and hopefully the others will fall into line. No one likes to be left behind. I, personally, would stay away from XP penalties unless that player is very disruptive. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 19 Mar 2012 22:39:42 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 22:49:53
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-I don't know if you have already, but the easiest thing is to talk to them before you do anything else. Next time you play, or after you play, ask them to knock that stuff off, or keep it to a minimum because it's distracting you. Odds are, since they're you're friends, they won't be schmucks and will do they best to stop.
-With the out-of-character stuff cut back, yeah, I would reward players for roleplaying; I wouldn't penalize anyone for not roleplaying, though. You could go with EXP, but it might be more topical/relevant to go with things like in-game items instead. Someone roleplays well with a merchant? Have the merchant say that he'll give that character a discount. Someone roleplays well with a thief? Have the thief tell that character he's alright, and maybe give them some kind of secret information that the thief knows. A wizard? Have the wizard give that character membership to a Wizard's Guild? And so on. That prompts the players to try harder, plus it can also give you a bunch of things that you can use in future games because the seeds are planted.
-In the end, though, you can't force people. The couple of times I've run games, I try to go into deep depth in storylines, descriptions, etc. Most of the players didn't really give a crap, and only wanted to have the coolest weapons and do the most damage. Nothing really could have been done there and it was just a clash of styles. Pissed me off to no end, but there wasn't anything I could have really done. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
Edited by - Lord Karsus on 19 Mar 2012 22:51:43 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2012 : 23:17:48
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What LK said. Talk to them. Tell them you'd like to run a more serious game, and you're kind of bummed out about the off-hand OOC commentary and crazy that goes on at the table. If they're willing to do that (and XP awards for RP is a great motivator), then great.
If they're not, well, the only one you can really change is yourself. You'll have to alter your expectations, find a way to enjoy the game as-is, or find a new group.
The last thing you want to do is spoil your friendships with these folks. If you have to bail on the game, make it clear that it's not really their fault--it's just that you have different expectations as regards the game. It's unlikely to get to that point, since if they're your friends, they probably want you to have as much fun as they're having.
Ultimately, just be honest with them. It saves a lot of pain, not to mention drama. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Manstein
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 00:42:10
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I feel your pain. As a DM I have always had a problem getting my PCs to actively engage in role play. The tough part was, we all agreed that we wanted to role play but when the game would get started people would invariably end up breaking character.
The cruel conclusion that I finally reached was that role playing a character in person can just be downright embarrassing or tough for all but the most dedicated of people. My group is composed of people who have been friends for over 11 years, yet, sometimes people just feel downright goofy talking / acting like a dwarf warrior, heaven forbid you are role playing character be of the opposite sex. Also, sometimes when you are physically acting out your character it gets tough because you are doing just that, acting like another person. Doing this sort of communication in person, with no costume, sitting around a cheetoe covered table, just makes people feel silly and thus makes it very difficult to "get in the zone."
Role playing from behind a computer screen using text... suddenly things are easy. Looking at your buddy in the eye and pretending to be a seducing female thief... suddenly not so easy.
To sum it up, my experience shows that unless your players want to really be dedicated about it, really good role play is not going to happen in a typical D&D environment. If the rumors prove true that the remake of BGII will come with a dungeon making program, then I could see your problem being easily solved, even if everyone is sitting in a circle staring at a screen. There is just something about the disassociation that comes with computer text that makes excellent role play far easier to achieve. |
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
-Thomas Jefferson
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Edited by - Manstein on 20 Mar 2012 00:45:27 |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 01:24:26
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Also should I punish them with xp penalties if they do/say stuff so irrelevant and ooc ?
I used to use "punishments" on groups that were not paying attention, fighting over loot, or other things like that. I would use surprise encounters, timed loot collection, and even character deaths if things got really bad. And after the game was over for the night, the person or persons who caused the issues would be asked to shape up or not to come back for the next gaming session.
I only ever had to remove two people from the gaming group & after they were gone things ran smoothly. There were also a few cases where in the middle of the game I started to pack up my stuff & get ready to leave. This usually quelled problems as well. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 08:55:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Manstein
The cruel conclusion that I finally reached was that role playing a character in person can just be downright embarrassing or tough for all but the most dedicated of people. My group is composed of people who have been friends for over 11 years, yet, sometimes people just feel downright goofy talking / acting like a dwarf warrior, heaven forbid you are role playing character be of the opposite sex. Also, sometimes when you are physically acting out your character it gets tough because you are doing just that, acting like another person. Doing this sort of communication in person, with no costume, sitting around a cheetoe covered table, just makes people feel silly and thus makes it very difficult to "get in the zone."
-There's different degrees of "getting into it", and to paraphrase Tropic Thunder, you don't have to go full-Dwarf/Elf/Centaur/whatever. I usually play around a 50-50 mix of Elves and Humans. Other than stats and certain mannerisms (being more quiet, being more prejudiced, being more introspective, a bunch of other things), I never really see much of a difference between them all. I don't necessarily need to make funny voices, or whatever else. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 18:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Manstein
I feel your pain. As a DM I have always had a problem getting my PCs to actively engage in role play. The tough part was, we all agreed that we wanted to role play but when the game would get started people would invariably end up breaking character.
The cruel conclusion that I finally reached was that role playing a character in person can just be downright embarrassing or tough for all but the most dedicated of people. My group is composed of people who have been friends for over 11 years, yet, sometimes people just feel downright goofy talking / acting like a dwarf warrior, heaven forbid you are role playing character be of the opposite sex. Also, sometimes when you are physically acting out your character it gets tough because you are doing just that, acting like another person. Doing this sort of communication in person, with no costume, sitting around a cheetoe covered table, just makes people feel silly and thus makes it very difficult to "get in the zone."
Role playing from behind a computer screen using text... suddenly things are easy. Looking at your buddy in the eye and pretending to be a seducing female thief... suddenly not so easy.
To sum it up, my experience shows that unless your players want to really be dedicated about it, really good role play is not going to happen in a typical D&D environment. If the rumors prove true that the remake of BGII will come with a dungeon making program, then I could see your problem being easily solved, even if everyone is sitting in a circle staring at a screen. There is just something about the disassociation that comes with computer text that makes excellent role play far easier to achieve.
Yes I totally agree with you. In my own experiences with roleplaying in a pc game and/or in a roleplaying forum is much more "easy" than role playing in a room with your really old friends.
I'll try to get them take the game more serious and I'll give them XP rewards and in game rewards like Lord Karsus wrote. I hope things will get better this time.
Also there is another question I would like to ask to you fellow scribes of the Candlekeep. I do not use a DM screen. Should I use it? I get the idea that it's handy with all the notes and stuff but I have the important tables and such with me on paper anyway and do you think it is a good thing that players does not see your dice rolls behind a screen?
I think it may be helpful at some times like when the group is in a really good story and suddenly just because of a trap and a bad roll a character dies and you can easily lie about the roll behind the screen but I don't know.
Thanks for the replies. Sweet Water and Light Laughter. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
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Manstein
Acolyte
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2012 : 23:16:30
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| I used to not use a DM screen, I find it a must these days. Even if you aren't into fudging the rolls the screen adds a great deal to the feel of the environment. |
A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit.
-Thomas Jefferson
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2012 : 21:04:00
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Okay, so before I say what anyone who reads my posts regularly expects me (and rightly so) to say, I'll note two things. First, the advice from the posters on this thread has been great. I have to say I really enjoy Candlekeep as a community of genuinely thoughtful gamers. Second, Erik's central point hits it on the nose. Ultimately, you have to figure out whether role playing (instead of just some D&D or 1E AD&D style hack and slash, which can be fun all on its own!) is something your players WANT to do. If they won't enjoy themselves having to 'fake it' at the table and not being able to romp along laughing at the world, 'breaking the fourth wall' style left and right, then no amount of trying will please them, or you!
That said, I can completely understand the reluctance of folks with only a modest background in role playing (for a lot of people, their only exposure to 'role playing' is something like the mandatory HR 'sexual harassment' seminar most corporations inflict on their cubicle workers these days) to adopt the persona of a fictional person of a fictional race and fictional occupational in a fictional setting and be expected to remain straight faced and in character throughout. I mean, it's hard enough to be a human on Earth, much less an elf that's lived for 150 years before the player started running him.
So, Kris gives his expected answer in 4...3...2...1... (Lol). I'd offer the following suggestion as a 'gateway exercise' to serious role play, try a 'one shot adventure' of my one trick pony, a 'play yourself' game. That's where you adopt a 'Chronicles of Narnia' style conceit and take the rules set, stat up your players sitting around the table (yes, they will have fairly modest stats for sure, few gamers are also reavers), and drop them into your fantasy world of choice. This has the advantage of removing a few of the layers of disbelief facing the new player. They now only need to focus on trying to realistically decide what THEY would do if faced with a supernatural situation. Sure, that's not exactly easy, but just about everyone has imagined what they would do in their favorite movie, video game, or zombie apocolyple story enough times to give it a semi decent whirl. It also allows the DM to focus on the most minute details of a fantasy setting as if viewing them for the very first time. What does the air smell like in a pre-industrial world? Is the sun the exact same shade? What do the trees look like? The insects? What exactly is the food like? How do people in very small towns react to strangers? You can see where one can go with this...
Now, the average group of gamers dropped into a PYS (play yourself) game last around 3 minutes facing immediate danger (which realistically they'd flee from screaming in most cases, Lol) unless they have some modest weapon skills or a boost of sorts from the DM (there are all sorts of 'special destiny' approaches to solving this problem, I won't dwell on them here), the bare minimum of which is cutting them a break and making 'common' intelligable somehow, but surviving combat with 3 goblins or a group of bandits burning down a farm isn't the main thing, the focus of the exercise is on creative roleplaying! Take 5 friends, drop them into a fantasy world on the edge of a small town in the Dales, and see what happens when they meet the locals (the bonus there is that the adventure literally writes itself, read a Volo's Guide, know the local NPCs, and turn your PCs loose). If that doesn't force them to role play for a bit just to avoid getting mugged or worse, nothing will!
If you are curious (and don't just think I'm a crank for suggesting this), I'm happy to give you a few more tidbits on how to get something like this rolling (and how to address common pitfalls), but I'll just leave it here for now. Again, I'm not necessarily advocating you change your campaign concept (unless your players really get into things), I'm just saying to take a night or two to try something 'outside the box' to get your players to think about the little things in a fantasy world that the average character faces and examine the finer points of daily life and standard motivations. It's worked pretty well for me over the years.
Good luck and good hunting! |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2012 : 02:28:55
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-Rereading the entire thread here, I think we're mixing up seriousness (tone of the game, tone of the game) and role-playing (getting in-character).
-My own style of play, it's serious, but there isn't too much role-playing, in the sense that I'll "act" like my character. With the exception of one or two characters that I've made up that I have a special affinity for, I role-play my characters very minimally. I generally run them in the third person; "X asks the NPC this", or "X attacks the monster with his sword". When I run games and play characters, I try to give as much depth as to make things feel real, and I generally eschew overt silliness and things like that. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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DestroyYouAlot
Seeker
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 23:54:24
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Just let'em have their fun. It's unrealistic to expect new players to get super into in-character roleplaying. And investment in a world doesn't come from reading books or artificial backstory, it comes from playing there. Once they've spent some time interacting with the world, they'll have a reason to care about it. Also, don't expect them to "be serious," D&D is a game. Squabbling over 10gp may be their roleplaying - nothing about playing mercenary characters is in any way incompatible with roleplaying. Needing the players to be "heroes" is a leftover from the 2e moral code days, don't get caught up in that.
And to the guy that equated "1e" with "hack-and-slash" let's not forget that OD&D / 1e AD&D is where the Realms as a setting came from (not to mention Ed's pre-gaming fiction jaunts). |
Edited by - DestroyYouAlot on 02 Apr 2012 00:09:17 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 11:57:08
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I don't think you should make them do anything, everyone is there to have fun and if that is the sort of game the players enjoy, then there is little you can do about it. How seriously people take the game vary from group to group and there is little reason for a DM to try to force the group or for him to overwork himself with planning, if that is not the sort of game they want.
Of course you might talk to them and suggest one of them DM, and if no one else wants the job, try to tell them that if you spend your time preparing the game, they could maybe at least try roleplaying a bit for your sake. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 21:49:01
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DYA,
As 'the guy', I'll merely point out that the OD&D/1E AD&D systems were VERY unfriendly to long term character survival in a way that subsequent systems have simply not been. I understand that this was in part a rules mechanics issue, and that people were certainly capable of using the older system to role-play, and even that Ed chose AD&D as the rules system for translating the Realms into a gaming environment (not that he had a lot of choices at the time...). However, I've played all these systems extensively, so I've seen first hand just how hard it was merely to survive to 2nd level as a character with OD&D/1E AD&D. Go back and look at the classic 1E 'Rogue's Gallery' and tell me how many characters presented in it had anything beyond a first name or read most of the classic modules where 'you start play right outside the dungeon' was the standard lead in. Lol.
It wasn't until late in 1E (with the introduction of things like non-weapon proficiencies for example) that the game truly became focused on aspects other than combat. Something that is totally understandable when you remember that GG's Chainmail system was really just a tabletop war-game for medieval history nerds.
So, OD&D/1E AD&D weren't bad systems, they just were 'hack and slash' focused environments. If you want to role play, I'd start with 2E and up. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 07:26:21
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| Well, I dot agree here. Part of the old logic was that you didn't need rules to roleplay and that the conflict/combat was what needed rules. The rest you form around your campaign and group. And that comes from a 2nd user. |
No Canon, more stories, more Realms. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 22:22:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I don't think you should make them do anything, everyone is there to have fun and if that is the sort of game the players enjoy, then there is little you can do about it.
-Agreed in the sense that there is nothing you can really do about it if they aren't receptive to change, but at the same time, the OP DM is also there to have fun, and if he/she isn't having fun because of the OOC and the way they act, something has to be done. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 04:50:09
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I'm going to have to go with what entreri3478 said about renforcing great RP habits with experience points, loot, contacts and allies, and whatever else goes along with a good role-play. When my players AREN'T fighting monster or hacking their way through a dungeon full of orcs and oozes, I try to get them involved with the setting in any way I can. This might be the wizard apprentices at Blackstaff tower, the paladin in the group offers assistance to the local sheriff, magistrate, or militia for training or even getting local guilds involved.
Depending on what system your using I've found Guilds/Organization rules from the Dungeon Master's Guide II (v3.5) pretty darn awesome to get people more role-playing and involved. For one, they want to make good impressions because this increases their rank. At specific ranks, they get more 'stuff' and more stuff is always cool.
Also, I'm not a fan of penalizing people or OOC chatter. But definitly reward PCs for doing things 'in character', acting 'in character' even if it puts the group at a disadvantage, and generally getting into the story. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Diffan on 04 Apr 2012 04:50:55 |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 05:41:59
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All good ideas. XPs, talk to them, etc. If none of those options work, you could always try reverse psychology roleplaying to try and get their attention to what you're having issues with. How? Have the next few NPCs talk about the football game, or how they thought the last episode of Walking Dead really kicked axe, or how much work sucked, etc, etc.
Then, when they wonder and ask why you're metagaming ooc real life topics through the NPCs, you can just say they've impressed you on how much ooc they exhibit during the games and you thought you'd take a shot at it. 
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I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 07:03:09
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The Old Ways, pioneered in the Gygax-era days, basically involved the DM narrating at a calmly reasonable yet inexorably unstoppable pace. Players who didn't pay attention often ended up missing important details, consequently suffering from injury or death or (worst of all!) falling behind the other players in finding opportunities or treasures. Players who suffer while being distracted by other players usually don't let it happen again, which in effect means your more attentive players take the burden of policing the less attentive players for you.
Of course it shouldn't be a chore, let the horses run free now and then, players won't enjoy the game if "forced" to participate. If a majority don't even want to play D&D then just do something else, or alternate activities. As much as I revile putting the art of good DMing into a book, the 3E and 4E DMGs actually have fairly good introductory sections detailing how to identify and stimulate the psychologies of different player types. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Farrel
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
239 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 16:45:54
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Well met Farinal!
It sounds as though you and your players aren't on the same page in regards to your, and their, expectations.
Have you tried explaining to them that you put alot of time and effort creating the stories and encounters only for them to bicker and screw around at the game table?
It seems that they are either dysfunctional or just being jerks tbh. It might be down to immaturity and attention seeking?
My first experience with large groups threw up a few problems for me, people chatting out-of-character about sport, girls, food, etc. and not actually playing their characters (I still don't think that they ever got the concept of roleplaying). Some would deliberately set about ruining the game for the other members of the group as a matter of course.
In the end I just gave up as I wasn't enjoying the DMing and found new players who were looking for the same experiences as I was.
It doesn't sound as though you (the DM) are the problem, the issue is with your close friends.
Have you spoken to them about their actions ruining your games and sessions? Real friends might well listen to the concerns that you have and try to change their ways.
Best of luck! |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 18:43:43
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Kris, Gygaxian D&D discourages hack-and-slash play precisely because it will get you killed. Personal combat and other rules-based adjudication is a last-resort way of gaining treasure (the main source of XP) and other goals.quote:
Originally posted by DestroyYouAlot
It's unrealistic to expect new players to get super into in-character roleplaying.
It comes naturally to lots of people, albeit least of all Western adolescents ashamed of play and uncertain of who they are. Lots of RPGs present themselves as if they're souped-up board games and roleplaying is something advanced you move on to later, but this is a tendentious and I think regrettable framing.
So in situations like farinal's, one of the first things to do is to find out whether the players don't want to roleplay and engage with the game world, or whether something is blocking or distracting them from doing so. The first case puts you in the much more difficult position of either changing what they want or finding new players. |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2012 : 06:45:17
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A two session possible solution: Show them what you are after - Example
End you next session with the characters in a town where they can get their armour fixed, replace their spell components and supplies. The town should be safe enough that they can go get themselves squared away individually. And in fact that is what they should do because they are hoping to answer the want ad that is posted in town by Mezltoni for high sun that day. The want ad says something to the effect of Heroes wanted, some risk involved
Be clear to the players that when the game starts next it will be at the meeting place of Mezltoni.
Flesh out Meztoni in your mind, you should know everything about this guy. In fact I would base him on a real person that has a sense of humor, and just swap the name.
Give this NPC an accent. Pick a quirk, like he rubs his chin every time he asks a question.
When your players arrive already be in character, and right from the start ask them if they are here for the job in character, and just keep plugging. When the first guy arrives, ask him about himself, and the rest of his party.
When the next guy arrives, ask the first guy if this is the party member he was referring to.
Dressing isnt just for dungeons. Have tea ready to go. Serve it as you explain the situation to their characters. Gesture for one of them to get the map theyll need off of the bookshelf.
The reason I would pick a character with a sense of humor is that its easier to banter, and even real life strangers can be put at ease by humor.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2012 : 15:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
A two session possible solution: Show them what you are after - Example
-As someone who had to put up with a core group of people who played D&D, but not in the style I myself liked, I don't really think this works. Once the OOC stuff stops, and everyone actually gets on board for focusing on the game, people don't just transform; if they're not into the details, lets say, and just want to focus on fighting, Leveling Up and getting stronger, no amount of detail that you inject in your game and no amount of you acting in a certain way is going to get them to inject that amount of detail in their characters and act in a certain way. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Thrasymachus
Learned Scribe
195 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2012 : 04:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Thrasymachus
A two session possible solution: Show them what you are after - Example
-As someone who had to put up with a core group of people who played D&D, but not in the style I myself liked, I don't really think this works. Once the OOC stuff stops, and everyone actually gets on board for focusing on the game, people don't just transform; if they're not into the details, lets say, and just want to focus on fighting, Leveling Up and getting stronger, no amount of detail that you inject in your game and no amount of you acting in a certain way is going to get them to inject that amount of detail in their characters and act in a certain way.
I yield to the prolific post count.
Farinal, I have new advice. Give up. Surrender is a perfectly valid plan. Never mind that a similar plan worked for me. Get new friends.
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Former Forgotten Realms brand manager Jim Butler: "Everything that bears the Forgotten Realms logo is considered canon". |
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how to get my PCs to roleplay and be serious
