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mikie
Seeker

USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 14:58:29
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Well met all! Here's an interesting question. While at my last gaming session, we had a character lose his arm. (Nasty way too.) My question is- what are the modifications to his STR. & DEX. scores. Also, the character is (or was) a SHADOW WALKER. (Thief/ Mage). Any suggestions? Obviously his thieving days are over. But what about spellcasting? Are two hands needed for the somatic gestures?
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
    
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 15:09:21
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Sounds like this character is going to be in a world of hurt. I imagine that many spells require the use of 2 hands. I am not sure about the exact numbers but loosing an arm will dramatically decrease the strength and dexterity as well.
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Hawkins
Great Reader
    
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 15:32:50
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I do not think that in game terms that it would effect his Strength or Dexterity Scores, but it would effect how many magical items he could wear (i.e. no longer can he wear paired bracers or gloves, and you might even limit him to one ring, though that is up to you) and would probably incur a -4 penalty on all Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.
As far as furthering his spellcasting abilities, I suggest you look at prestige classes that allow you to cast spells while holding an weapon in your hand. Or, he could take Improved Unarmed Strike and that way he is always armed but still has one hand free for casting spells with somatic components. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
    
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 15:34:58
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Really, depends on how severe you want the penalties to be. As far as I know, the rules don't govern limb-loss other than to say you can't use it. It matters little what edition your playing. I'd say he'd have a severe penalty (-5 or so) on all Open Lock, Disable Device checks (or Thivery percentages for AD&D or whatever) and possibly a minor penalty (-1 or -2 or a -10%/-15%) on thivery checks or Slight of Hand checks.
As for penalties to Strength and Dexterity, why? If it's his main-hand, then I'd say any melee attack uses 1/2 Strength modifier due to it still being his off-hand. He's still quick, he's still agile, but perhaps a little off-balance (so possibly a Balance penalty).
Personally, losing a limb and the subsequent penalties listed above to Skills are enough of a hurt without further making it worse with Ability score penalties.
As for magic, somatic components doesn't always mean 2-hands to use (at least, via rules). For instance, wizards often wield a staff or wand in one hand and use somatic components. I wouldn't even both with trying to penalize this. Shadow Walkers use inate abilities (Spell-Like Abilities) to accoplish Shadow Walking and the like, thus no need for somatic components. If you STILL feel the need to penalize him for this, then I'd suggest making ALL spells he casts Full-Round Actions instead of Standard.
I guess I'm of the mind-set that losing a limb is pretty rough, and if the player still wants to use and play that Character, he should be encouraged to do so. With heavy-handed penalties that completly shuts down anything he can do in combat or helping the group, there should be another way of contributing. Perhaps he goes Spellcaster full time? Perhaps they take on a quest to find a Regeneration spell or the Blood of a Troll, or a Master Artificer to craft an artifical limb or a Necromancer to zombie-graft an undead limb. Something should be in place for him to want to continue with the character despite the heavy loss of a body part. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
    
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 16:58:36
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quote: Originally posted by Diffan
I guess I'm of the mind-set that losing a limb is pretty rough, and if the player still wants to use and play that Character, he should be encouraged to do so. With heavy-handed penalties that completly shuts down anything he can do in combat or helping the group, there should be another way of contributing. Perhaps he goes Spellcaster full time? Perhaps they take on a quest to find a Regeneration spell or the Blood of a Troll, or a Master Artificer to craft an artifical limb or a Necromancer to zombie-graft an undead limb. Something should be in place for him to want to continue with the character despite the heavy loss of a body part.
I like this idea but would recommend you don't go overboard with it. Don't let the character get a new limb that is made out of metal or has the strength of a giant. A series of quests could easily be crafter around this character "growing" a new arm.  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief

    
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 17:33:21
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For tasks involving both hands, I'd reduce his strength and dexterity by one-third. Not one-half, because not all strength or dexterity is in the hands/arms. And this would be an effective score, not the true one -- so maybe a flat penalty, equal to one-third, would be good.
I like Diffan's suggestions for getting two arms again.  |
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Diffan
Great Reader
    
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 18:09:28
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Thanks Wooly and entreri.
Thinking more on using artifical limbs, they probably woudln't come as perfect solutions either. The necrotic-zombie/ghoul limb might possibly be still under control of the Necromancer. Imagine getting the new limb and going to another city. As the player walks up to the city guard, his hand reaches for his dagger and slits the guard's throat of it's own power (meanwhile the Necromancer is scrying the group and wielding the PCs limb like his own muhahahah ).
OR if it's an artifiical limb, perhaps it requires it's own powersouce that exhausts it's supply fairly quickly. This could be intereseting if the powersource is say....a gem of x amount of GP (maybe found only in dragon lairs), an opal found in the darkest places of the Underdark, or even a crystal/pearl found in the oceans that requires a second quest to find a consistant and reliable powersource for the mechanism.
Troll Blood and Regeneration are the easiest answers that can be the 1/shot and done answer. But perhaps the others might provide better quests or adventures to involve the PCs into. Suffice to say, use what you think best fits the situation. Might be that the artifical arm works for a while (a month or two of sessions) and when things quiet down or they find down-time, his arm starts going 'CRAZY' with spasms or gripping items until they crush or break or if you want to be really horrible, if he's preoccupied with a wench.....perhaps the session gets really violent but it's not his fault, it's his arms, lol.
SOOOO many possiblities. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
    
USA
3746 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 18:15:35
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-Having played a character with one arm in the past (an Ithorian Jedi Consular, who had his left arm gruesomely severed by a vibroblade by a gang of outlaws looking to collect on the bounty that was placed on his head, and the rest of the party for running through a blockade the Empire had erected around the planet in question), I will say that I did find it strange that, basically, there were no penalties by the rules. Being one-armed made for interesting role playing, and you'd think that, in 30 +/- years of RPG games being a semi-popular niche thing, missing limbs and penalties (and benefits?) for them would have been codified into the d20 system more/better. |
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Edited by - Lord Karsus on 29 Feb 2012 18:17:34 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief

    
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 19:14:22
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quote: Originally posted by Diffan
Thanks Wooly and entreri.
Thinking more on using artifical limbs, they probably woudln't come as perfect solutions either. The necrotic-zombie/ghoul limb might possibly be still under control of the Necromancer. Imagine getting the new limb and going to another city. As the player walks up to the city guard, his hand reaches for his dagger and slits the guard's throat of it's own power (meanwhile the Necromancer is scrying the group and wielding the PCs limb like his own muhahahah ).
OR if it's an artifiical limb, perhaps it requires it's own powersouce that exhausts it's supply fairly quickly. This could be intereseting if the powersource is say....a gem of x amount of GP (maybe found only in dragon lairs), an opal found in the darkest places of the Underdark, or even a crystal/pearl found in the oceans that requires a second quest to find a consistant and reliable powersource for the mechanism.
Troll Blood and Regeneration are the easiest answers that can be the 1/shot and done answer. But perhaps the others might provide better quests or adventures to involve the PCs into. Suffice to say, use what you think best fits the situation. Might be that the artifical arm works for a while (a month or two of sessions) and when things quiet down or they find down-time, his arm starts going 'CRAZY' with spasms or gripping items until they crush or break or if you want to be really horrible, if he's preoccupied with a wench.....perhaps the session gets really violent but it's not his fault, it's his arms, lol.
SOOOO many possiblities.
I'd go with an artificial arm, myself, powered by charged magical items -- say, an hour or two per charge. This will reduce the amount of magic available to the PCs as a whole, and eventually force them to seek a permanent power supply.
For that permanent power supply, I'd go with some sort of magical gems. In fact, I've a drow NPC with an artificial arm that is powered by a couple of ioun stones (one for power, one for additional abilities built into the arm).
Another alternative I've thought of would be a magical gem created specifically for the purpose of powering the limb. The gem, instead of taking charges, permanently reduces the character's hit point total by one hit die -- a level 10 character would still be considered to have 10 hit die, but he would effectively only have 9. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Feb 2012 19:15:44 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
    
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2012 : 19:39:02
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Vecna has a spare hand you could use...
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Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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mikie
Seeker

USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 02:55:45
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quote: Originally posted by entreri3478
Sounds like this character is going to be in a world of hurt. I imagine that many spells require the use of 2 hands. I am not sure about the exact numbers but loosing an arm will dramatically decrease the strength and dexterity as well.
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mikie
Seeker

USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 02:56:50
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quote: Originally posted by Hawkins
I do not think that in game terms that it would effect his Strength or Dexterity Scores, but it would effect how many magical items he could wear (i.e. no longer can he wear paired bracers or gloves, and you might even limit him to one ring, though that is up to you) and would probably incur a -4 penalty on all Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.
As far as furthering his spellcasting abilities, I suggest you look at prestige classes that allow you to cast spells while holding an weapon in your hand. Or, he could take Improved Unarmed Strike and that way he is always armed but still has one hand free for casting spells with somatic components.
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mikie
Seeker

USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 02:59:10
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quote: Originally posted by Hawkins
I do not think that in game terms that it would effect his Strength or Dexterity Scores, but it would effect how many magical items he could wear (i.e. no longer can he wear paired bracers or gloves, and you might even limit him to one ring, though that is up to you) and would probably incur a -4 penalty on all Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.
As far as furthering his spellcasting abilities, I suggest you look at prestige classes that allow you to cast spells while holding an weapon in your hand. Or, he could take Improved Unarmed Strike and that way he is always armed but still has one hand free for casting spells with somatic components.
Thanks for your input. I didn't even consider magic items. |
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mikie
Seeker

USA
73 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 03:04:18
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quote: Originally posted by Diffan
Thanks Wooly and entreri.
Thinking more on using artifical limbs, they probably woudln't come as perfect solutions either. The necrotic-zombie/ghoul limb might possibly be still under control of the Necromancer. Imagine getting the new limb and going to another city. As the player walks up to the city guard, his hand reaches for his dagger and slits the guard's throat of it's own power (meanwhile the Necromancer is scrying the group and wielding the PCs limb like his own muhahahah ).
OR if it's an artifiical limb, perhaps it requires it's own powersouce that exhausts it's supply fairly quickly. This could be intereseting if the powersource is say....a gem of x amount of GP (maybe found only in dragon lairs), an opal found in the darkest places of the Underdark, or even a crystal/pearl found in the oceans that requires a second quest to find a consistant and reliable powersource for the mechanism.
Troll Blood and Regeneration are the easiest answers that can be the 1/shot and done answer. But perhaps the others might provide better quests or adventures to involve the PCs into. Suffice to say, use what you think best fits the situation. Might be that the artifical arm works for a while (a month or two of sessions) and when things quiet down or they find down-time, his arm starts going 'CRAZY' with spasms or gripping items until they crush or break or if you want to be really horrible, if he's preoccupied with a wench.....perhaps the session gets really violent but it's not his fault, it's his arms, lol.
SOOOO many possiblities.
LIKE the idea of troll blood! You're right SOOOOOOOOOOOO many possibilities! Thanks! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
    
2477 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2012 : 06:48:36
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Depending on what you use. Combat & Tactics had rules for all sorts of critical damage, for one. Including tings like bleeding. I'm sure something like this can be adapted to d20+ - or Castles & Crusades for that matter.
But reverting something as mundane as this via barely masked deus ex machina just because you're not sure how to handle this, really?
quote: Originally posted by Diffan
Thinking more on using artifical limbs, they probably woudln't come as perfect solutions either. The necrotic-zombie/ghoul limb might possibly be still under control of the Necromancer. Imagine getting the new limb and going to another city. As the player walks up to the city guard, his hand reaches for his dagger and slits the guard's throat of it's own power (meanwhile the Necromancer is scrying the group and wielding the PCs limb like his own muhahahah ).
And a living graft is much better? Tangled Webs had one... |
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