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kingofscones
Acolyte
4 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 21:24:16
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I admit that I am nowhere near as versed in Realms lore as many of the scribes here, so forgive my ignorance, but...
I'm having trouble coming up with a good storyline for the destruction of Neverwinter. I am choosing to completely disregard the whole Spellplague business in my campaign, however, I am enamored with the idea of a "ruined" and destroyed Neverwinter and I am thinking about using the 4E Neverwinter Campaign Setting, except minus the bits about the dead gods and the Spellplague. This leads me to the conundrum of how to utterly destroy Neverwinter deus ex machina style.
My first thought was to have an great orcish horde mustered from the Spine of the World and nearby to descend into the north, reaving and pillaging as they go. I figure, that they could split into two parts to get around Neverwinter Wood and converge on the Jewel of the North as their grand prize. This would mean the destruction of Luskan and Mirabar and Longsaddle as well. Neverwinter holds out as long as possible, frustrating and angering the horde, so when they do finally storm the walls the fate of Neverwinter is sealed. Most of the citizens are killed, and entire portions of the city are razed to the ground.
Their plan is to ultimately settle in the area and carve out a kingdom of sorts for themselves. Word quickly spreads of the orcish army pillaging, and not knowing the extent of the orcish army's plans, Waterdeep raises an army to meet them in the field lest they come farther south as they fear they will. The Waterdeep army marches on Neverwinter, but they do not arrive in time and the city has been sacked and lies in ruin. However, they successfully defeat the orcs, sending large numbers of them fleeing into Neverwinter Wood and into the mountains, and driving the rest back to the Spine of the World or to their graves. Dagult Neverember could lead this army, and choose to stay in Neverwinter to administer the broken government.
Sooo, if you're still with me, I am wondering:
(1) would orcs be able to pull this off?
(2) who would lead them?
(3) would anyone from the east (Dwarves for example) give them trouble, or is their campaign feasible as stated?
(4) would Waterdeep be able to muster a large army to turn back the horde, or should I have some other city or kingdom do it? Would Waterdeep even care about the destruction of Neverwinter?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 21:40:53
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What you have there is fine, so long as the orcs managed to somehow gather without anyone noticing, and attack before any other power had time to react.
Waterdeep is part of The Lords Alliance with Neverwinter - it has to help.
The dwarves would not come to the aid of Neverwintwer (humans), but they might against Mirabar (dwarves), ergo I would say Mirabar must be hit first, and the attack proceed lightening quick south from there.
The Dwarves (of Mithral Hall, Adbar, and Felbarr) would arrive late for the 'clean-up', if Mirabar was hit - they are all about revenge. They'd be the ones chasing the horde back into the mountains, after other humans groups (Waterdeep, etc) 'saved' the city.
If it was me, I'd go for some 'madness' plague, that has the citizens ripping each other apart, until a cure was found. That leaves the underlying threat of the plague resurfacing. Orcs are too *meh* (over-used) nowadays, and I prefer things a bit more gruesome.
But thats just me. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Feb 2012 21:42:48 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 21:49:52
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| Not that you shouldn't come up with your own ideas, but Neverwinter was *not* destroyed by the Spellplague. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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kingofscones
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 21:54:05
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| Right you are Brian! It was the volcano. I guess I sort of lumped those two things together into the one big Destruction-of-the-Weave event resulting in all sorts of magic and geographical cataclysms around the Realms... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2012 : 22:14:16
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Ack! 
5e: Time of the Volcano plagues!
Avatar Crisis of the Spell-Weave?
Return of the Flumphs?
 
Anyhow, picture a city like a medieval version of NY in I am Legend - thats what I was thinking.
If the volcano blew-up, does that mean they renamed it Sometimeswinter? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 00:34:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If it was me, I'd go for some 'madness' plague, that has the citizens ripping each other apart, until a cure was found. That leaves the underlying threat of the plague resurfacing. Orcs are too *meh* (over-used) nowadays, and I prefer things a bit more gruesome.
Oooh, 28 Days Later! The Ragewinter Plague, perhaps?  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 00:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If it was me, I'd go for some 'madness' plague, that has the citizens ripping each other apart, until a cure was found. That leaves the underlying threat of the plague resurfacing. Orcs are too *meh* (over-used) nowadays, and I prefer things a bit more gruesome.
Oooh, 28 Days Later! The Ragewinter Plague, perhaps?
Personally, I'd spin this as a more evolved version of the original Neverwinter virus that inflicted the people of the city in the original Neverwinter Nights CRPG.
Perhaps some arcanist was tampering with a sample of the disease and it artificially [and arcanely] morphed into a madness plague.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 00:41:17
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1433 DR: The Year of the Ragewinter
That one has legs, Wooly. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 00:46:08
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It's true--Neverwinter's destruction had nothing whatsoever to do with the Spellplague. It was a casualty of Mt. Hotenow erupting like twenty years ago (not 100).
If you want to mess up the people another way, I like that evolved plague idea from the Sage. I recommend that!
Also an earthquake is a good choice, a civil war that involved the summoning of demons that then broke free and went wild, or a giant, long-bearded gnome called Iakhovas (no relation to the sahuagin pseudo-deity) who accidentally crushed it because of deadlines.*
(*Obscure reference--ask Brian James!)
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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kingofscones
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:35:45
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I like the plague idea! Thanks for all the input everyone.
Perhaps I can even work the Volcano back in  ... my main reason for not liking that thread was the seeming "randomness" of it... wouldn't the citizens have been able to sense the eruption coming and prepare for it? Wouldn't it have been possible to mitigate a lot of the damage caused by it through magical means? Etc. It just seemed too... I don't know, out of the blue? Like, oh here's Neverwinter, BAM, Volcano!, no more Neverwinter.
However, with the city thrown into chaos by a rampant madness plague, perhaps the volcano could become something more. I'm thinking that a powerful wizard driven insane by the plague might think to try and "save" the city of Neverwinter by cleansing it with fire and ash. However, said wizards attempt to unleash a cataclysm was largely unsuccessful and only parts of the city were destroyed and the plague gets stopped through other means (or runs its course). Of course I may also move this whole series of events into the 1370s or 80s. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 17:51:21
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I would say that was a classic example of 'brainstorming' - one person threw out a bare-bones idea, and everyone else built on it. Well done!
And I had completely forgotten that another plague had swept through Neverwinter! As Arivia said - this has legs!
And of course, to turn this into a real adventure-path, have the plague-changes be different, for different groups; most died, some just turned into 'mindless zombies' (but not undead), while others evolved into frightening, Resident Evil-esque type threats (including several 'bosses', and one 'BBG'). You can take a cue from the many Zombie Apocalypse style games out there, for different 'mutant horrors' (and D&D/FR already has a plethora to choose from). I always liked the Animus from GH (kinda like a Lich, but not a wizard - it could be any class) - it could be used for a few 'bosses'.
Adventurers in Steampunk hazmat suits - I LIKE it!!!
Edit: And depending on the age of your group, have them run into a crazed, shirtless Kara-turra brandishing a rapier - This Guy. See how nerdy they are if they get the joke. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Feb 2012 18:00:14 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:05:23
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quote:
Originally posted by kingofscones
... wouldn't the citizens have been able to sense the eruption coming and prepare for it?
Probably not. Consider Mount Vesuvius in Italy and its sudden eruptions.
That said, by all means ignore the volcano if it doesn't fit your vision of for your campaign.
I like your initial idea about orcs on a tear through the north. I think a plague arising around the same time fits too. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 02 Feb 2012 18:30:06 |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:06:30
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| Ah well, the volanco wasn't natural tho, it was caused by a Primordial Fire being who was awakened by tinkering in Guantlgrym far away. It just happened to be in the wrong place and took the onslaught of the Primordial's wrath. This is why there was no warning about it. |
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kingofscones
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:31:15
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Wha? I guess that's from the new RAS series? I haven't read it so I didn't know about that twist. The 4E Neverwinter Campaign Guide doesn't mention it, but there is this one bit that I completely missed until now:
"Unknown to all but a few, the Red Wizards were responsible for the volcano stirring from its slumber, in an attempt to use the deaths caused by the mountain's eruption to power their Dread Ring. Their plan was foiled, however, and the mountain sleeps again-at least for now." |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:36:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
It just happened to be in the wrong place and took the onslaught of the Primordial's wrath. This is why there was no warning about it.
Hrm...I think whether it was natural or Primordial-driven, Neverwinter still wouldn't have had warning.
I tend tend to view Szass Tam as responsible for "pushing" the Primordial ever so gently to fire off its wrath at Neverwinter for the sake of his dread ring.
But from a campaign perspective, I think DMs should depict most of the NPCs in Neverwinter as viewing the eruption as a natural event, unless or until the DM decides to have the players adventure to Gauntlgrym and find the truth out for themselves.
Looking at things from the Dming side, I think it's pretty easy to substitute "Primordial of Fire" with "Elder Fire Elemental" if you're not into having the Spellplague be a part of your campaign, but like Neverwinter as presented in the new hardcover campaign book. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:42:49
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Right, but if you don't accept 4e lore, then the primordial thing doesn't work (why does everything have to be so 'uber'?).
Faerun has a VERY long history of plagues; just look at Calimshan's timeline, and even Imaskar got rocked by them. Its simple, it's elegant, and it gets the job done.
'Angry Primordial' has just become too much of a 'catch all' since 4e. Now had they done this in 3e, I would have been like, "Wow! A Primordial!". Now its just like, "What... another one?"
The idea is that the OP wanted to use Neverwinter (which was a very good product), but not have to use the canon background. The Orcs were fine - I just feel they get over-used (and might complicate his campaign later, if he wants to do anything with Many-Arrows.) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2012 : 18:54:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Right, but if you don't accept 4e lore, then the primordial thing doesn't work.
Not sure what you mean here.
Are you saying you can't have Primordials if you don't accept 4E lore?
Or are you saying you can't have a story with some uber-powerful Fire Elemental at the heart of Gauntlgrym? (This idea is something I find to be pretty awesome; it's adventure-worthy material.)
As for Primordials, I don't view them as being overdone myself. In fact, I'd like to know more about them.
I'm aware of the Realms history of plagues (I'm using something I call the "Deadplague" in my current Realms campaign).
I think it's a good idea for the OP to toss in a plague with his "orcs attack" idea.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The idea is that the OP wanted to use Neverwinter (which was a very good product), but not have to use the canon background.
I understand that. I'm just coming from the a point of view that says you can pretty much do some name-swapping (Elder Fire Elemental for Primordial) and be good to go.
I'm wondering, though, how the OP will answer his or her players if one of them asks, "Did Many-Arrows fight for Neverwinter, against it or did they stay out of the fight?"
Moments when players ask tough questions are DMing gold because they drive you to develop the world you're presenting to your players. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2012 : 01:42:11
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quote:
Originally posted by kingofscones
I like the plague idea! Thanks for all the input everyone.
You're welcome.
quote:
However, with the city thrown into chaos by a rampant madness plague, perhaps the volcano could become something more. I'm thinking that a powerful wizard driven insane by the plague might think to try and "save" the city of Neverwinter by cleansing it with fire and ash. However, said wizards attempt to unleash a cataclysm was largely unsuccessful and only parts of the city were destroyed and the plague gets stopped through other means (or runs its course). Of course I may also move this whole series of events into the 1370s or 80s.
Alternatively, you might simply say that the wizard had deliberately [or, perhaps, inadvertently--depending on the alignment and purpose of the wizard] triggered the volcano's eruption as a "component" for the final spell that unleashed the madness plague.
A triggering event, perhaps? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alternate story for destruction of Neverwinter
