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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 14:28:49
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That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 14:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered.
That doesn't make any sense after reading Shadow of the Avatar by Ed. Detecting a Malaugrym is easy if you know what to inspect, the gold glow in their eyes. Surely after having fought the Malaugryms for 2000 years, the Shades would have figured that out. Elminster taught how to do it to the knights of Myth Drannor and 2 Harpers (he just told them really), and the Malaugrym disguises were pretty much useless after that.
Since it was the first time I encountered the Malaugrym in novels or sourcebooks, it was hard for me to see them as a real threat after that. That and Elminster's head blew them all up. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 04 Feb 2012 14:45:26 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 15:58:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
That is possible. Even Telamont himself didn't detect the guise of the Malaugrym when they took the form of the princes. It was Galaeron who spotted them, and prevented the great casualty which the Shadovar would have suffered.
That doesn't make any sense after reading Shadow of the Avatar by Ed. Detecting a Malaugrym is easy if you know what to inspect, the gold glow in their eyes. Surely after having fought the Malaugryms for 2000 years, the Shades would have figured that out. Elminster taught how to do it to the knights of Myth Drannor and 2 Harpers (he just told them really), and the Malaugrym disguises were pretty much useless after that.
Since it was the first time I encountered the Malaugrym in novels or sourcebooks, it was hard for me to see them as a real threat after that. That and Elminster's head blew them all up.
There could be many reasons for that. One, the Malaugrym that disguised themselves as the shade princes were more powerful than any that El had encountered. Two, they might have sealed a temporary alliance with the phaerimm, who taught them spells to better cloak themselves with illusion (which they once used to pretend as the Chosen). Three, Telamont was rather confident that the wards on his city would immediately warn him of any undesirable intrusion, and thus didn't expect the Malaugrym to go through without his knowledge. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 16:32:12
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| I wouldn't go too far to try to explain inconsistencies in the Archwizards trilogy. I think it wasn't very well done, and Telamont and his sons were nowhere near those presented in Paul's books in terms of badassery. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 16:58:57
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Sometimes, things are deemed as inconsistencies just because some people fail or refuse to see the possibilities. Which I'm guilty of, at times. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2012 : 17:24:06
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| Fair point, but as a whole, this trilogy felt rushed IMO. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 21:02:39
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Ironically, I'm going to dial DOWN the Shade's badassery.
Not because they're not badasses but I am a strong believer that you don't short change Cobra Commander to shill Serpentor. Manshoon, Ssass Tam, the Malgys, Fzoul, and so on are all badass in their own way and certainly just as intelligent as the Shades. Eventually, which is what happened, the Shades rapid expansion and acting like they owned the Realms was destined to come in contact with evils every bit as wily and cruel as them.
No, Manshoon can't take Telamont in a straight magic duel. However, Manshoon's hat in my realms is he's the single greatest evil manipulation mastermind type there is. That's why, setbacks aside, he's still kicking despite being opposed by Elminster and company directly for the better part of three centuries.
Likewise, the PCs are the best "spanners in the works" people in the world and can cut through the Gordian Knots of both archwizard's plans like no tomorrow. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 05 Feb 2012 23:32:09 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2012 : 21:37:31
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In anybody's game, pretty much anyone can kill Telamont. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 08:40:46
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Also, shades hunt for all old Netherese toys, which automatically marks them as impending threat to all Netherese heirs and everyone capitalizing on Netherese caches - the main teams being Halruaa and Sshamath respectively. Halruaa was already mentioned, so to the drow magocracy.
They probably wouldn't fly into battle brandishing staves, but work behind the scene and in the long run turn out to be even more troublesome.
They should be aware of the problem on an early stage, via their Zhent partners. IMO when things get really hot, their approach would most likely be double-dealing and use of Zhents as ballista-fodder, provocation of Shade attack on Darkhold one way or another (preferrably by proxy) being somewhere on the list: immediately this closes their best trade route, but ultimately at least removes it from the exclusive ownership of an organization dedicated to controlling the trade.
Besides, the little backstabbers almost always make things more... jolly.  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 06 Feb 2012 09:00:33 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 16:30:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm confused.
I thought Halruaa had been annihilated because Good=Bad for Gaming in the POL setting.
Nah.
Everything 'detailed' by a certain author got nuked right off the planet. At least Evermeet got a new home.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Where is that from?
From Return of the Archwizards and Twilight War trilogies, which I suspect you haven't read.
Own it, yes. Read it, no. My son bought it for me for my birthday back in August.
As I have said many times elsewhere, that series was written with the purpose that fans HAVE TO BUY IT (so it is self-serving lore), which is why I have avoided it for so long. Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Feb 2012 16:32:30 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 17:01:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Own it, yes. Read it, no. My son bought it for me for my birthday back in August.
As I have said many times elsewhere, that series was written with the purpose that fans HAVE TO BUY IT (so it is self-serving lore), which is why I have avoided it for so long. Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
I suppose you are referring solely to the Archwizard trilogy (and you would be right) ad not to the Twilight war. Paul's serie is my favorite so far, up there with Elaine's Songs and Swords. If not, I swear the Twilight War is a must-read, and nothing like you think it will be. Unless you reeeeally hate the Shades, and there's no helping that I guess.
I'm having similar thoughts regarding the Thayvian trilogy, and the Lady Penitent trilogy. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 06 Feb 2012 17:02:50 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 17:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
Actually, up until the "no sourcebooks for you!" maneuver of 4E, I felt that the sourcebooks were doing pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sure, they might not cover some of the smaller things... But if they'd given us the gazetteers that some have suggested, even that would have been covered. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2012 : 23:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Clearly, I will have to take a full bottle of antacid and plunge into it eventually, if I hope to be able to keep up with 'Realms Canon'. The Thay trilogy is a another one I am not looking forward to (but am being forced to read).
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
It depends, really, on what your priority is. Mine is pleasure. The primal purpose of reading should be that. To gain knowledge must just come second. IMO, of course. So if you think you'll die of boredom reading something you know you would not like, then don't force yourself. I didn't foolishly convince myself I'd enjoy very elf-centric novels, nor the second book of the new Elminster series, Bury Elminster Deep. But if you can sacrifice pleasure for the sake of a dose of knowledge just to keep up with certain discussions where such knowledge is fundamental, then it's really up to you.
My reading time is severely reduced due to my current "job." That's why I carefully choose what I read or reread these days. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 00:55:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I remember back in the day when you could keep track of a setting just by buying sourcebooks - funny, eh?
Actually, up until the "no sourcebooks for you!" maneuver of 4E, I felt that the sourcebooks were doing pretty good at keeping things up to date. Sure, they might not cover some of the smaller things... But if they'd given us the gazetteers that some have suggested, even that would have been covered.
And there's recent history to support such a move as well.
Despite the poor sales of White Wolf's 3e RAVENLOFT product line, it was proven that the five-volume Gazetteer series was among their best selling RPG items. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 07:39:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm confused.
I thought Halruaa had been annihilated because Good=Bad for Gaming in the POL setting.
Not much better or worse than Cormyr, really. Nor any less infested with potential troubles. It just got to be more high-level adventures. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2012 : 17:07:20
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Ouch.
I hurt my poor gamers because I described the Haluran nation as pretty much identical to Cyre in Eberron.
A blasted nation of doom, gloom, and refugees. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Bringing down the Princes of Shade
